Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay, so based off of the rules, we are given that a member from each royal court can join a single unit, with that being the case and the fact that one of the units you can join is deathmarks, I can see this working. And if it does work, I hope it is never faq'd because it is completely beautiful.

2 x Harbingers of Despair w/ Abyssal Staff and Veil of Darkness
5 x Deathmarks

My thinking is that when the squad comes in, I now have two templates that are str 8, ap1, that wounds on 2's versus the selected unit.

Here are the rules where I think it would work:

Before the battle, each member of the royal court has the option of being split off from his unit and assigned to lead a different unit from the following list: Necron Warriors, Necron Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks. Only one member of the royal court can join a unit in this manner. Otherwise, they remain part of the royal court.

and

Hunters from Hyperspace: When a deathmark unit deploys, choose a non-vehicle enemy unit on the battlefield (even a unit in a transport) to be their prey - place a counter next to the chosen unit to serve as a reminder. Any deathmark unit that shoots at, or strikes a blow against a unit marked in this fashion will score a Wound on a 2+.

Yes, this does work. In fact, this works extremely well. This is my favourite one-two punch in the Newcron codex. And I see no legitimate reason that this would be FAQ'd away, as the rules are iron-clad.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I've found that only one Harbinger of Despair per unit is necessary. Two is just overkill.

Beautiful! Thanks for the insight!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far, I have seen a lot of people saying that you can get the Abyssal Staff and Hunters from Hyperspace ability to work together, because there isn't a solid argument to say that you can't, but the deep striking with them thing I hear is still arguable, considering the rulebook faq says that if a unit only has some deep striking models, can the entire unit deep strike, of which, GW stated no.

Anyone else have any insight on this?

Well lets put it this way.

If you attach anything that isn't a deathmark you no longer are allowed to deep strike with them. They do not give it to anyone else.

Now deathmarks do not give the 2+ to anyone that is attached to the unit. Just them.

BUT that doesn't really matter because you are talking about STR 8 weapons so they wound on 2+ on most things.

MJThurston wrote:Well lets put it this way.

If you attach anything that isn't a deathmark you no longer are allowed to deep strike with them. They do not give it to anyone else.

Now deathmarks do not give the 2+ to anyone that is attached to the unit. Just them.

BUT that doesn't really matter because you are talking about STR 8 weapons so they wound on 2+ on most things.

It's a Str 8 weapon which treats your LD value as Toughness, so unfortunately not a 2+ wound.

The Hunters rule does state any Deathmark unit wounds on a 2+. The Cryptek is not an IC joining, he's a part of the unit from deployment. Similar to that...Space Wolf wolf thingy of wolfiness. Which means he takes advantage of the 2+ wounding for the abyssal staff.

I was goin to agree with Thurston on this one , but then Dytalus made sense actually...But I can see people arguing the whole Deepstrike thing and maybe also whether or not the Cryptek is part of that unit for all intents and purposes.

Otherwise yes, this is beautiful!!!

Well, even if the joined Cryptek(s) can't deep strike with the Deathmarks, the beautiful part is the abyssal staff wounding on 2's. With that being said, to get around the no deep strike rule for Crypteks, simply put them in a night scythe, deep striking the night scythe, disembark, fire away. Or come through a monolith dimensional portal. The hunters from hyperspace rule says when they are deployed, not when they deep strike.

They can't deep strike immediately, using the Hunter rule, as the crypteks can't normally DS, but you're already using HoD so give them a VoD and use that first turn.

Crypteks can utilize the Deathmarks deep strike. Precedent was set by the Space Wolves Codex:

Q. Can a Wolf Scout Pack with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
assigned to it deploy as Infiltrators, make a move before
the game begins because of its Scouts special rule,
choose to outflank or use Behind Enemy Lines? (p86)
A. Yes, to all of the above, because the Wolf Guard Pack
Leader is not an Independent Character and therefore the
fact he does not have the Infiltrate or Scouts special rule
does not preclude the squad he has joined from using
those abilities.

And from the main rulebook FAQ:

Q: Can a unit Deep Strike if only some of the models in it have the deep strike special rule? (p95)

A: No.

I would venture to say that the main rulebook FAQ would take precedence over the Space Wolf FAQ as it actually applies to the Necrons.

I'd agree with Ghaz. At least until the Necron FAQ comes out.

Inferring that the royal court functions like the wolf guard is just that... inferring. While the SW codex FAQ sets precedent for it, we have a specific ruling from the BRB FAQ that actually applies directly to the situation.

Even if the Space Wolf FAQ applied to the Necrons it still wouldn't allow them to deep strike. Here's the important part of the Space Wolf FAQ again:

... and therefore the fact he does not have the Infiltrate or Scouts special rule does not preclude the squad he has joined from using those abilities.

The FAQ does not give the Wolf Guard the 'Infiltrate' or 'Scouts' special rules, but only clarifies that they can still be used if s model in the squad does not have those rules. However the main rulebook FAQ clarifies that this would not be the same with deep striking.

course. precedent means there's backing for a ruling in the future... not necessarily that said ruling would be correct

What I'm saying is even with using the Space Wolf FAQ as a precedent you would not be able to deep strike as it does not give those rules to the attached Wolf Guard. The main rulebook FAQ says he must have those rules for the unit to deep strike.

Right. What I was getting at is that the wolf guard rule gives precedent to the idea that a joined model (royal court/wolf guard) can use the special abilities of a model without actually having them.

The GW faq contradicts this. However, precedent still exists should the necron codex come out and state otherwise. Of course doing this would then be an exception to the BRB FAQ, but you get my point.

Actually the FAQs are NOT contradictory at all. The Space Wolf FAQ only covers 'Infiltrate' and 'Scouts' while the main rulebook FAQ covers deep striking. Neither has any bearing on the rulings made in the other.

I was referencing the fictional ruling in the new necron FAQ being contradictory with the existing BRB FAQ entry

As far as the SW FAQ, i meant that the precedent in general of "models don't necissarily need to all have the special rule for the unit to use it" is contradicted by the GW FAQ explicitly pointing out a situation where that is not true.

And again, the Space Wolf FAQ and the main rulebook FAQ are not contradictory. The main rulebook FAQ is an exception for the ruling in the Space Wolf FAQ. If Wolf Scouts could deep strike then they still would not be able to do so if they have an attached Wolf Guard despite what their FAQ says because the main rulebook FAQ has an exception that they can't deep strike if all of the models in the unit can't deep strike.

i suppose if you look at it that way, sure

Regardless, the SW FAQ is not enough to validate the original issue ^_^

No, because it doesn't cover the issue of deep striking which the main rulebook FAQ does. Nor does it indicate that the model added to the squad gets the squads special rules. Quite to the contrary it proves that they don't get the squads special rules.

Ghaz wrote:No, because it doesn't cover the issue of deep striking which the main rulebook FAQ does. Nor does it indicate that the model added to the squad gets the squads special rules. Quite to the contrary it proves that they don't get the squads special rules.

The actual Hunters From Hyperspace rule:
When a Deathmark unit deploys, choose a non-vehicle enemy unit on the battlefield (even a unit in a transport) to be their prey ... Any Deathmark unit that shoots at, or strikes blows against, a unit marked in this fashion will score a Wound on a roll of 2+

The actual Royal Court rule:
Before the battle, each member of the Royal Court has the option of being split off from his unit and assigned to lead a different unit from the following list: Necron Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks.

Now, when the Crypteks are split off in order to lead the Deathmark unit, the Cryptek becomes a part of the unit. This is absolutely no different from a Wolf Guard joining a unit of Grey Hunters. And just like how the entire Grey Hunter unit -including the Wolf Guard member- gets the benefits of, say, a Wolf standard, so too does the Cryptek gain the benefit of the Hunters From Hyperspace rule, and therefore the Cryptek wounds on a 2+ as well. This is usually a moot point as the Staff of Despair is Str 8 anyway, even if it were going up against an equal-strength stat, 2+ is all it takes.

As to the issue of Deepstriking, I thought that the unit still could Deepstrike into play for the exact same reason. However, even if it cannot, it can still use VoD to achieve the same effect, as the Hunters From Hyperspace rule kicks in when the unit deploys, irrespective of the means of deployment.

I don't think Ghaz was ever arguing that Hunters from Hyperspace didn't work... it was just the deepstrike issue, which I think we've pretty much nailed to the ground at this point that no, the unit cannot enter play from reserves via deepstrike.

Correct.

What about the rule that a unit must move as the slowest member. IE. No scout means you don't get a scout move.

I however will say that I don't believe the deathmark rule was meant for Crypteks but I can't find anything to say they don't get the rule because of the word "unit".

That only has to do with movement, nothing to do with deathmark

Just pointing out that scout shouldn't work with a model that doesn't have it. IE move as the slowest model.

With out the BS faq for SW's, the cryptek would not be getting this rule.

They dont get the rule, they just receive the benefit of it. Reread the FAQ.