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Ok so 3 things.

1.What is the best lore for a prophetess/damsel

2.What is the most successful kit for a lord/paladin (prefferably a duely monster slayery guy)

3.Wre peasant bowmen any good

Thanks for any insight

1. Life
2. Virtue of Heroism (heroic killing blow), Heartwood lance and Dragon Heart (or its dragon something)
3. Long bows, flaming shots, defensive stakes, cheap as dirt. All you need to know !

no skirmish? I hear it can be quite annoyng when guarding a trebuchet

Stakes are FAR better than skirmish in every way and bowmen still guard trebs as they are deployed in horde

Stakes allow the first cannon shot at the trebuchet to be stopped cold.

As for Lores... it depends very heavily on the rest of your list, and what level you want the caster to be.

For a level one scroll caddy, there is really only one choice - Beasts. For that matter, don't bother rolling for a spell, just take the default. +1S and +1T can be incredibly handy, it brings our KotR up to S6 on the charge, our halberd Men-At-Arms hit S5. Either way dishes out quite a bit extra pain.

For a Prophetess, it becomes more complicated. Heavens and Life both do nice things for knights. Life keeps them around very well. Heavens has a nice balance of hex, augment, and damage spells, with a spectacular maneuver control spell (Comet of Cassandora) to boot.

But if you are running a list heavy in combat characters, consider running a level 4 with Beasts. Pann's Impenetrable Pelt, Savage Beast of Horos, and Wyssian's Wilform turn a unit of 5-6 naked paladins into a devastating killing machine.

Stakes are better against cannons and cavalry by far.

Skirmish is better against enemy light flying units. Stakes do nothing for you when they just fly over top of your bowmen and you can't even turn around to help your trebs out on the next turn.

Skirmish is also better against enemy archers. Stakes and skirmish give the same +1 bonus, but the stakes disappear if the bowmen move, skirmish never goes away.

skirmish also lets you march and shoot, free reform

Hautamaki wrote:Skirmish is better against enemy light flying units. Stakes do nothing for you when they just fly over top of your bowmen and you can't even turn around to help your trebs out on the next turn.

Which is why the standard defensive formation puts the treb in the corner, with a line of archers diagonally across the corner 1" in front of it. Now there is minimal (if any) room for the flyer to get in. An additional benefit is that reserve units now cannot deploy behind the archers either; there is no room.

Then you prioritize your fire depending on what is most threatening to the treb... assuming that defending the treb is still important by that stage of the game (often by turn 4 it isn't anymore).

Also if you play against chariots and ogres small stake units are a lances best friend

Virtue of heroism doesn't work in conjunction with a magic weapon

Read your FAQ. It does now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The errata changes the virtue by removing all text and replacing it with heroic killing blow. This it can be used with a magic lance

`

Oh ok thanks

Yah makes combining it with Heartwood Lance just pure win

I had a question about a possible bret. list, 3000 points. 2 50 block busses of men at arms, 2 full 12 man units of questing knights (4 points a model more expensive and +1 str and great weapons), probably 1 unit of kotr, 4 Trebs, a 10-20 wide 40 block of peasant bowmen with stakes and brazier of course, a small unit of peg. knights to go warmachine hunting, mounted yeoman to pull large combat units out of position (for cheap! and expendable!) and lords and heroes seasoned to taste.

idea is to get off double charges with long busses of men at arms to break steadfast and win combat.

Sound like a list that could be competitive?

Well, I believe you HAVE to have at least one unit of Knights of the Realm in your list so fit that unit in somewhere.

Given the speed difference between your knights and peasents you may have trouble with the idea of the peasents breaking steadfast for your knights. By the time the peasents have reached the fray the combat will probably already be decided. and it isn't practical to hold your knights back and wait for the peasents because you want your knights in combat ASAP because they are extremely vulnerable to ranged attacks, especially the Questing Knights(only a 3+ armor and the ward save)

Add ontop of that that Questing Knights are just downright terrible and it just stops being viable. Also you are really relying on peasants at 3k is a very bad idea. And you need peg knights to protect your Trebs

Bretonnians 101

Characters: Mandatory allocation, there is a hint here Bretonnians rely on characters to boost units.

Damsels and choice of school: The army book does you a favour, it limits you to the lores you would want anyway. Life boosts your valuable knight units, beasts boosts your profile and Heavens offers heavy firepower. Heavens is only really good if you get lots of spells to play with, Life and Beasts are more focused. All in all take what you want, you arent given room to go wrong.

Knights: An excellent way to take a heavy hitting unit with a deep rank bonus, shoot away any rank advantage the opponent has with Trebuchet and archers, maybe also a heavens Prophetess, then smash your way in bypassing steadfast. Only try this with a frontal attack, as it requires much of the focus of your army to pull off and you cannot disguise whats coming.

Men At Arms: The other way to win combats, or more to the point outlose combats. Steadfast is a bugbear for elite armies and Bretonnians suffers with dealing with seven ranks of cheap goblins/state troops/ratties etc etc.

Bowmen: Take them, do take them. Not only do you have defensive stakes, flaming arttacks etc, but in 8th you get to shoot with half of your third and deeper ranks, and you can afford steadfast. All in all they got a real boost. Take them, 6pts each is stupid cheap.

Trebuchet. Inexpensive and downright nasty, best stonethrower in the game.

Pegasus Knights: Everyone takes them, they are onto something.

Grail Knights: Expensive, and that means they take up allocation for your trebuchets.

Questing Knights: They suck, thats as much as you need to know.

Knight Errants/Knights of the Realm: I prefer Knights of the Realm, but Knight Errants are popular. Six is enough for small units, take some small units. Fifteen for large units, you need rank bonus now.

how are questing knights terrible? I'm not seeing it. They still get a 2+ armor save vs. shooting attacks, in close combat sure it's a 3+, but they're STR 6, and only 4 points more than a knight of the realm

The poorer save combined with ASL can be a death trap in CC. If they run into Str4+ attacks they can take massive casualities before they get to swing. Heck, even Str3 in large amounts(it usually is) will drop a few of them before they get to swing.

A lance gives the same strength bonus when you charge, which with M8 you always should, without losing your inititive and bretts really don't want to be stuck in prolonged combats as they will usually lose those regardless of the type of knight so the loss of the stength isn't a huge deal.


I might be mistaken, but I think Questing Knights actually lose their shields as well as their lances. so they have a 3+ in shooting as well as CC.

No questing still has shields vs shooting but as GT said ASL and a poor AS is a deathtrap for very expensive models

hmm... I guess I can see that. I play high elves as my main army so I keep forgetting there's an actual drawback to great weapons.

however, in my gaming group at least, I'm generally going to be fighting at least 6-7 ranks of models in any combat block. If not, it's a monster, a horde of crypt ghouls, or chaos warriors, and even then the chaos warriors are 4-5 ranks deep, and the ghouls are just as many.

As well, there's a lot of fear and terror causing units in the armies I play against, it's a well liked tactic, so the re-roll psychology tests is much more valuable than normal.

my issue with cav is that they are generally always going to be in for more than one round of combat, thus the questing knights are the only things with any real hope of winning combat, and I need the men at arms to break steadfast so I can actually capitalize on the combats I am winning.

I can see questing knights as a decent supporting unit alongside a normal lance wielding one.

They both charge in, making sure the majority of the enemy will be striking the lance wielders, Lances do damage at inititive, then the great weapons go. And there you have killing and staying power.



There is one thing to give Questing Knights, they did get better with 8th since GW now give the full +2 str when mounted. In 7th it was only +1str and you still were ASL.

I'm gonna have to say that though grail's are super expensive, the extra attacks on the charge due to lance formation makes a hell of a difference. Especially with a heaven's mage, as rerolling your 1's with a 2+ is kinda ridiculous. Really all they need to do is hit a unit that has had a rock or two dropped on it to take away some ranks, and they, along with say a KotR unit, break through fairly regularly. Heavens also helps negate killing blow, which is just beautiful. I know my execs were in for a rude surprise.