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I just wanted to make a threat to change some of the stuff the Eldar has in the current codex. I know that most if not all of what I'm saying will be overpowered to over 9000, but I just wanted to have a giggle . Please comment knowing that I intended for them to be overpowered. Rather than decreasing the cost of many things in the current Eldar codex, I decided to add abilities to make them stronger since that's what Eldar is about.

HQ:

Avatar of Khaine: Increase strength of +2 and make in immune to laser weapons in addition to flamers and meltas. Increase his points cost to 200pts. (meltas, flamers, and lasers are non-mass energy, so I figured they should all be the same.)

Farseer and Warlocks: Increase them by 10pts. All witchblades and singing spears wound on 2+ and are power weapons. (Trying to make an Eldar version of Force Weapons)

Farseer: If a Farseer is accompanied by at least 5 warlocks, Farseer gains Psychic Focus at no additional cost. Psychic Focus increases the Farseer's psychic abilities by an additional six inches. Due the growing strain on the warlocks as the numbers dwindle, the Farseer loses Psychic Focus if there are less than 3 warlocks accompanying the Farseer.

Increases the strength of Eldritch Storm to 4.

Prince Yriel of Iyanden: The Spear of Twilight is a singing spear that ignores armor saves. In addition, the Spear of Twilight inflicts instant death on a roll of 6 (regardless of the toughness value).

Eldrad Ulthran: Eldrad is such a potent psyker that he can guide his comrades even in the midst of battle. He can see the ebbs of possibility of each comrade with him and can directly communicate with each of them without trouble. Eldrad has Guiding Blow: Any unit attached to Eldrad Ulthran may reroll fail to hit in close combat. This is a psychic ability done on the beginning of the Eldar player's turn.

Phoenix Lords: Give them 4+ invulnerable save. Asurmen has 3+ invulnerable save. (Can't go into individual details because I haven't thought enough about them to give them something good and fluffy. I'll maybe edit later)

Troops:

Defender Guardians: Shuriken Catapults: S4 AP5 Increase range to 18 inches. Due to the sheer amount of shuriken disks launched per shot, the chances to hit a weak spot in the armor is increased. Thus, all shrunken weaponry have rending.

Storm Guardians: (Don't know what to do with them) (Really want to removed them from the codex. The Eldar are a dying race who wouldn't mind sacrificing a 100,000 humans to save 1 Eldar life. Why would they send their militia into close combat.)

Dire Avengers: Due to their constant training in their Aspect shrine Dire Avengers can see the weaknesses in the enemies armor. Avenger Catapults have rending at a 5+. Still 18 inch range.

Guardian Jetbikes: (Don't know what to do with them)

Rangers: The Eldar's lithe and graceful movements give them more stealth capabilities than the lesser races. Rangers can infiltrate 12 inches with line of sight to the enemy rather than 18 inches.

Elites:

Striking Scorpions: Striking Scorpions are masters hunters that patiently wait to strike the enemy at the perfect opportunity. Striking Scorpion Exarch can gain Sinister Strike at +25 pts. Sinister Strike: The Exarch and the unit he is attached to may be placed in reserve. Rather than coming from reserve, the Exarch and his unit comes in from an area terrain much like deep strike without scatter. The Exarch and his unit must be placed at least 1 inch away from an enemy model. Then roll a D6: on a 1 or a 2, the enemy as noticed your movements and are prepared for you. The Exarch and his unit may shoot but not assault. On a 3+, the Exarch and his unit has the enemy within his grasp and may assault the same turn it "deep striked."

Howling Banshees: The Exarch may purchase Grace for 25 pts. The acrobatics training allows the Banshees to exit a speeding wave serpent without much harm. If the Wave Serpent moved more than 12 inches but less than 18 inches, the Exarch and her squad may disembark using this rule. They must roll for a dangerous terrain test, taking a non savable wound on a 1. They may not run or shoot, but may assault that turn.

Fire Dragons: Increase cost of Fire Dragons by 2 its per model. Give them Feel No Pain.

Wraithguard: Make D-Cannons Assault 2

Harelquin Troope: Their Flip Belts, in addition to ignoring difficult terrain, then may roll 2D6 and choose the highest when running. (Don't know enough about them to give them a decent upgrade)

Fast Attack

Shining Spears: On the first turn that they assault, their lances count as Strength 6 power weapons. In addition, they can reroll fail to hit roll on the first turn.

Warp Spiders: Their Death Spinner makes the enemy they fired upon treat their movement as if they were in difficult terrain for that turn.

Swooping Hawks: Their Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack ignores cover Saves. Increases the strength of Lasblaster, Hawk's Talon, and Sunrifle by 1.

Vyper Squadron: Holofields are normally used on large tanks such as Falcons and Fire Prisms. However, to place a Holofield on a Vyper gives them more protection due to their small size. Vypers with Holofields gain a 4+ cover save no matter the distance move. This does not protect against close combat.

Heavy

Dark Reapers: Due to their training of shooting a gun with a precision of a scalpel, Dark Reapers ignore cover saves on a roll to hit of 5+.

Wraithlord: Second of the same weapon is not twin linked. The Wraithsword, in addition for allowing retools to hit in close combat, the Wraithsword allows an additional attack for every unsaved wound. This can continue until the unit is wiped out or there are no more wounds dealt.

War Walkers: Moved to Fast Attack

Fire Prisms: The Prism Cannon is counted as a Lance Weapon. However, when rolling for penetration, if a six is rolled, too much power was built up in the prism cannon. Roll a D6. On a roll of 1, the prism cannon overloads and is counted as weapon destroyed. The shot still went through for that turn. On a 2+, the prism cannon overheats and may not fire the following turn. The shot still went through that turn.

Falcon: Changed to Dedicated Transport.

Support Weapon Battery: Move them to Guardian Defender units. A unit of Guardian Defender may purchase a support platform or the support weapon battery. If the support weapon battery is taken, the weapon is counted as Heavy rather than Assault as with the support platform. Prices are the same (i.e.: support platform: only cost is the weapon, support weapon battery: buying the battery plus 40 pts. for 2 guardian gunners).

You managed to double-post.

Eldrad/Farseers: They are really potent at the moment, especially Eldrad, so buffing them might be a bit inappropriate. Target the aspects of them that makes no sense *coughthepowerscough*

Guardian Defenders / Dire Avengers: still has the problem of being too similar, additionally Rending at 18" from a 8 point model is a bit strong. Granted they fold like sacks of... hay, but.

Guardian Jetbikes: you already have, you made their weapons killier at longer range.

Rangers: I don't feel their problem is the distance they can infiltrate to their enemies, I feel their problem is in how they handle their weapons and the potency of snipers in general (they are in other words at disadvantage from edition, not codex)

Scorpions/Banshees: Would this be three exarch power choices?

Wraithguards: Small matter, but they carry Wraithcannons.

Harlequin: This'd be a good ability for ALL fleet Eldar, I feel.

Shining Spears: I think they need both more and less in order to be usable. More in that they are hardly worth their points, less in that they have a serious problem if they actually kill what they assault in one turn.

Warp Spiders: Indeed.

-snip out of time-

On the subject of the Farseer's range boost, there's an Apocalypse datasheet that gives Warlocks the 'augment' power for 10pts, it requires a psychic test, but increases the range of the Farseer's powers by 6". Perhaps move that into the regular Codex?

All shuriken weapons as rending might be a bit much. As-is the stream of little razor-sharp discs is just as potent as a high-caliber rocket-propelled armor-piercing exploding bullet, that change might have a place on the Movie Eldar list but it doesn't make any sense on the tabletop.

Contrary to what Dawn of War would have you believe, Fire Dragons are not actually that tough.

A 4+ Cover save is actually better than what a holofield normally does, I wouldn't advise putting that in.

I got the idea from the Apoc formation and if I recall I thought Augment doubled the range of psychic powers.

The Fire Dragons feel no pain was because of Fuegan, the Burning Lance's, just thought they might survive a little more rather than being suicide squads.

I wanted to change the Holofield rule on Vypers to a 4+ cover save. If you read the post again, rather than having the normal Holofield rules, the Vyper gains a 4+ cover save no matter the distance moved (while having no effect against assaults).

The Guardian/ Dire Avenger thing. I still have a big headache trying to differentiate them.

The Scorpion/Banshee can have an extra power I think. I think those would be really cool for them to have (may be a little on the strong side, but I did say that this list will make them overpowered)

The thing about rangers was that a lot of veteran players would push their army to the front of their max deployment, to the point that sometimes its better for infiltrators to deploy normally than actually trying to infiltrate.

Two pieces of input:

- Granting rending to Shuriken weapons is FAR too powerful. Gauss is powerful and is still worse, furthermore, there is no precedent for any army having such a powerful main weapon. In terms of fluff, it makes them more powerful than mini-rockets (Boltguns) and what are effectively discs able to pierce a tank...

- I've made my own Eldar Codex (linked in my signature) that is my own attempt to bring Eldar up-to-date and may appeal to you.

Your ideas seem to reek of, how do I put it, "It's not absolutely game-breaking, therefore it should be". Things like giving Fire Dragons FNP, or making Shuriken Weapons Rending, what justifies these changes. I could easily say that Heavy Stubbers fire a lot of rounds and therefore they should have Rending, but they don't, and we all agree that they shouldn't. There are a few, and I mean few, things that I agree with such as moving War Walkers to Fast Attack, but other choices such as the two mentioned before, making D-Cannons Assault 2, allowing Banshees to assault out of transports, they just seem unnecessary.

I haven't read too much official fluff for me to accurately portray rending. My line of reasoning was something along the lines of this: Envision a Space Marine getting shot by an Assault Cannon. Its essentially a gattling gun with large rounds hitting you (S6 AP 4; rending). With the exception of the few lucky rending hits, the impact is distributed over a large surface area of the Space Marine armor, which allows better protection.

Now, for Shuriken Catapults, in my opinion, work the same way on a much smaller scale. The Space Marine laughs as the little tiny discs flying around him barely makes a dent on his armor. However, out of the few hundred discs hitting him, theres a small number of them that hits the weak points of the Space Marine armor (like the neck seal, or a joint piece) as the Shuriken disks precisely cuts with accuracy and precision vital seals and circuitry on the armor, thus giving them rending.

Going to your example of Shuriken disks being on par with mini-rockets (Boltguns) against a tank, I feel they can be on par in a certain way. Like I said about 95% of the disks coming out from the single volley will do nothing except giving the tank a new paint job, but the 5% is whats going to cause some havoc on the tank. The disks are small, giving them a better chance to go into the weak points of the tanks (ventilation shafts, exhaust pipes, gun barrel, ammunition feeds like the Flamer sponsons the BA Baal Predators have).

The chances of destroying the tank will be extremely low, but there's a small chance to neutralize certain parts of the tank such as severing ammunition feeds (weapon destroyed), destroying exhaust pipes (immobilized) or destroying the few exposed circuitry on the tank (crew stunned/shaken).

Also I think my mind is still in 5th edition and not really looking towards the 6th edition expansion. Thus with the prevalence of cover saves everywhere, I didn't think rending was going to be as overpowering as I thought it would be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Valkryie: I knew that most of what I wrote was game -breaking. I did mention that it would be.

I was trying to convey my thoughts of fluff wise into game play. Never the best of ideas, but I tried.

SkyHawk wrote:Now, for Shuriken Catapults, in my opinion, work the same way on a much smaller scale. The Space Marine laughs as the little tiny discs flying around him barely makes a dent on his armor. However, out of the few hundred discs hitting him, theres a small number of them that hits the weak points of the Space Marine armor (like the neck seal, or a joint piece) as the Shuriken disks precisely cuts with accuracy and precision vital seals and circuitry on the armor, thus giving them rending.

But that's represented by the Marine failing an armour save, no?

The chances of destroying the tank will be extremely low, but there's a small chance to neutralize certain parts of the tank such as severing ammunition feeds (weapon destroyed), destroying exhaust pipes (immobilized) or destroying the few exposed circuitry on the tank (crew stunned/shaken).

8 Dire Avengers against AV11 would net 1.19 penetrating hits and 0.59 glancing hits, providing roughly a 30% chance of a wrecked/explodes result I think...
Against AV12 it's 0.59 for both and roughly 20% chance of a destroyed vehicle.
Add bladestorm (against AV12) and it's 0.89 for both. With guide it's 0.79 for both. With guide and bladestorm it's 1.19 for both.
Imagine the 10pts upgrade of a Shuriken Cannon; it would easily become the most prevalent heavy weapon in the Codex.

You're right, the Shuriken weaponry would be really strong. I didn't consider the math.

Would you guys think its still be broken if the costs of guardian/avengers increased?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was doing the math and I was wondering if you guys can help me look at this, because I calculated only a 3.09% chance of the vehicle's destruction.

8 Dire Avengers = 16 shots
BS 4 = 16*(2/3) = 10.6666667

For AV 11: Needs rending. so 10.6666667*(1/6)
= 1.777778 for rending potential.

1.7777778*(1/6) = 0.29629 for glancing
1.7777778*(5/6) = 1.461848 for penetration

1.461848*(1/3) = 0.493827 to wreck/destroy the vehicle.

0.493827/16 original shots * 100 = 3.09%

This is my first time doing war hammer math so I'm not even if this is remotely right. Guide and Bladestorm would definitely increase the percentage.

For a Shuriken Cannon:
Assault 3 = 3 hits
BS 3 = 3*(1/2) = 1.5 Twin Link = 1.5*(1/2) = 0.75
Total hits = 1.5 + 0.75 = 2.25 hits

2.25*(1/6) = 0.375 for penetration (rending doesn't matter here since its AV 11
2.25*(1/6) = 0.375 for glancing

0.375*(1/3) = 0.125 for wreck/destroyed

0.125/3 original hits * 100 = 4.17%

Off topic: I was looking at the codex for the Shuriken Cannon when I noticed the Shireker cannon. Which Eldar has it? I thought the jet bikes had it but when I flipped to them, they mount Shuriken Cannons unless I read it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I saw a mistake for the Dire Avengers. Rending is D3. So:

1.777778*(1/3) = 0.592593 for glancing
1.777778*(2/3) = 1.18519 for penetration

1.18519*(1/3) = 0.395062 for wreck/explode

0.395062/16 original shots * 100 = 2.47%