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Think about it, the Tau could be more Grimdark than when they first appear.

How many of you have read the book A Brave New World? Now I'm sure that a few of you did in high school. But for those that don't it sounds (To me at least)somewhat similar Tau Society, minus all of the drugs, sex, and clones, plus its a book about Dystopian Societies, kinda like 1984 etc. However they do share the caste system, much like the Caste system of the Tau. And each member of the Caste is "supposedly" equal, much like the Tau. However the members of the Castes really are not equal, much like the members of the Tau Caste. In the book the ruling Caste (The Alphas) or at least I think they are the ruling cast because they have the easiest life out of all the Caste members. This sounds to me a lot like the Ethereal Caste of the Tau, they rule but they claim themselves as equal.
And everything the Alphas do, they do to try and keep stability of the whole world, they try to keep everyone happy...just like the Ethereal's. In the book, they are pretty advanced in terms of technology, they have massive cloning facilities, rockets that can travel the world 3 times around in a matter of minutes etc. But they also condition each clone that they make, they condition them to be afraid of books and flowers and anything different, they also teach that them that their own Caste is better than the other Castes. Now I don't know how in-depth you've read (I for one probably haven't read it all that well) However I did catch that under the Ethereal HQ choice where it says the price of failure it talks about how the Fire Caste is conditioned to fear and dread the death of any Ethereal. This, well at least to me anyway is begging to sound a lot like a Brave New World.

Also in A Brave New World, they keep the members who are not in any Caste System on separate reservations where they are treated like savages, and while they are grudgingly accepted by the members of the Caste, they are still not considered members of society. Now this sounds a LOT like the Kroot...Savages, not fully accepted, and not members of any Caste. And the Vespid to some degree, they fully accept the concept of the Greater Good, but aren't completely accepted because the Ethereal's don't let anyone become full members of the Greater Good...unless they are Tau. Now in the book, this sounds a lot like the Epsilon Caste, they are basically (and PLEASE do not take this the wrong way) mentally slowed, they do all of the handy work, like plumbers and garbage men, and they are Caste members, but they are not accepted and actually hated in the book. And I kinda get the vibe/feeling that the Kroot and Vespids are a lot like the Epsilons.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, but I feel that there is a little more Grimdarkness, to the Tau then meets the eye. Pull back the curtain and look into the depths of Tau society. The Ethereal's preach the Greater Good and welcome everyone, while secretly they don't fully accept everyone into their society, and condition and manipulate the other Castes to maintain their power. I feel that if you were to take a glance at A Brave New World, perhaps you'll see what I mean.

Now please, I would like your opinion on my thoughts, or perhaps you have some thoughts of your own.

Thanks.

I agree. Tau are cool because they're shiny on the outside and dark on the inside. Still counts as grimdark.

Rented Tritium wrote:I agree. Tau are cool because they're shiny on the outside and dark on the inside. Still counts as grimdark.

Yay! Someone actually understands what I'm saying! You sir, have just made my day haha

I would pose the question why do you think people believe the Tau arent Grimdark?

Becaus they have "Good" in their tagline?

Even though the Tau are hardly 100% innocent, they're still a helluva better then anyone else and I'd much rather live under Tau rule. I stand by that.

Ratius wrote:I would pose the question why do you think people believe the Tau arent Grimdark?

Becaus they have "Good" in their tagline?

I remember reading in other threads that people hate the Tau simply because they aren't Grimdark enough, and they stick out from the rest of the 40k Universe because they are, or seem to be, a little more polite than other races. And that they aren't "Gothic" enough for 40k.

I think Tau are about as grimdark as the individual player wants them to be. The fluff - even apart from the usual contradictions between the interpretations of various sources - is so wonderfully vague that one can interpret them as an utopian society with enlightened leaders using their wisdom for the betterment of everyone's lot in life, or an Orwellian police state where everyone is an indoctrinated slave ... or anything in between (which is, I think, where my own opinion would fall - making them not appear "out of place" in this universe whilst at the same time not going straight for the most horrible version imaginable).

Another bit supporting this "Grimdark filling" idea is that imperial xeno biologists that have dissected etherials have found an organ under the bone crest on their forhead(where other tau only have a skinline). This organ produces a pheromone that they believe allow them to induce complete and total obediance in other tau. So an etherial could actualy tell a tau to jump off of a bridge and they would with out hesetation. Once they established them as the top dogs then fallowing orders is just the way things are, not requireing constant pheromones.

Yeah, that is one of those interpretations. Of course, that version also claims that Tau have feet instead of hooves.

Not saying it's "wrong", just stressing that there is no "proof" or "fact" either way by nature of how the franchise is run. Xenology is actually a pretty cool book, I enjoyed the little story bits in it as well.

DarbNilbirts wrote:Another bit supporting this "Grimdark filling" idea is that imperial xeno biologists that have dissected etherials have found an organ under the bone crest on their forhead(where other tau only have a skinline). This organ produces a pheromone that they believe allow them to induce complete and total obediance in other tau. So an etherial could actualy tell a tau to jump off of a bridge and they would with out hesetation. Once they established them as the top dogs then fallowing orders is just the way things are, not requireing constant pheromones.

I had heard about that, which could just be even more proof that there is a lot more going on in the Tau than whats just on the surface.

I think it's great to have different flavors of grimdark. Some people seem to think everything needs to be skulls and blackness all the time. It just has to be a very scary and dangerous universe to qualify as grimdark. You can achieve that through many means.

With the mind control and political manipulation, the tau are like a different flavor of chaos in a way. They're the cult of the greater good. Seducing people with their promises of peace and prosperity in a dangerous universe. The fact that everything else is so dark actually makes the siren call of the greater good stronger.

I will never look at Tau the same again, Now that I think about it, they kind of are a cult of the Greater Good, using conditioning and chemicals and promises of a better life to lure people in. Its like a whole new form of chaos, without all the skulls and blood.

Yeah, when they first started darkening the tau, I thought it was a little dumb and hamfisted even for a retcon, but the more I thought about it, the more I really liked it. It's creepy and insidious in a way we don't see very much in this universe, but still quite grimdark.

Sometimes a cow is just a cow.
If the Tau look like Asian themed naive newcomers with altruistic tendencies, and the designers explicitely say Tau are Asian themed naive newcomers with altruistic tendencies, they might just be Asian themed naive newcomers with altruistic tendencies.

And the part about Xenos is completely missing the point: Kroot are not part of Tau society and have their own issues conflicting with what Tau would like to see.

Kroothawk wrote:Sometimes a cow is just a cow.
If the Tau look like Asian themed naive newcomers with altruistic tendencies, and the designers explicitely say Tau are Asian themed naive newcomers with altruistic tendencies, they might just be Asian themed naive newcomers with altruistic tendencies.

You won't fool me into joining your space cult, kroothawk

I wouldn't trust you anyway

BTW no Xeno joins Tau society, at best he joins the tau Empire. That is an important differenciation.

If you allow me....

Tau are like US today, using propaganda and promises of better life to carve their way into the galaxy. When in reality they are just like any other conquering race, just without slaughtering people ( remembers Nimbosa and Taros ) ... forget that - without opening fire first and asking questions later.

Point is that Tau are using the weakest thing of their enemies: their own people. By offering better life conditions and better protection and much more attention to their problem they are in fact turning people against their own flesh and blood to join their cause. Later telling that it is the will of the people that want them to stay.

But Tau are newcomers and tolerate many things that Humanity isn't because they didn't see the horrors of the galaxy. They are located in rather calm part of the galaxy were Ultramarines are dormant and as a result of that there is peace there ( remember how Matt said that they are very busy Chapter in keeping the peace tryout the galaxy? ). And if we see entire Tau history the only real fight they had so far are against Imeprium ( Damocles, Nimbosa and Zeist ) and a conflict with Gorgon. They never faced Chaos invasion of Black Crusade proportions, an Ork WARGHHH!!! of Armageddon proportions, full NEcron uprising ( like Damnos ) and other major conflicts.

For now they are they are race using Grater Good as a paravan to hide their real intentions of ruling the galaxy. But I thin kas they progress more and more and discover more and more they will become more and more grimdark.

So their ultimate goal is to subjugate the universe?

Original designer's notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Sorry, you guessed wrong. As in every Tau thread for a year. Again and again.

Fluff changed, that was from what 2003?
Now is 2011 and everyone's fluff changed a LOT, so did the Tau.
And their slow expansion into Imperial and ORk space jsut proves my point.

Warning: Silly Post Ahead.

Everyone knows that the Tau's purpose is to create the galaxy's first God of Tickling. They're well on their way, according to Tzeentch!

Serious post mode on:
While the original designer notes hold true, it's also worth noting that the Tau are supposed to be the only race currently "altering" in every incarnation of their fluff.
When I think of the Tau as they first were introduced, I think of a beautiful marble city perfectly planned out and perfectly kept.
Add some wear and tear to that city, some crumbling buildings, and a core of despair beginning to set in: you have the Tau Empire of today.

They're still far more "nice" than the other factions, but that's not saying too much when other factions will suck your world into a literal version of Hell or bomb entire planets into ash to stop the encroachment of an enemy.

I find it somewhat amusing ( but also frustrating) that in this 40k setting with its many shades of "grimdarkness" that some absolutes are accepted..

The Tyranids are a unreasoning and unfathomable hive mind intent with one purpose, to consume and expand.

The Orks are a Barbaric race with sole focus of fighting and survival.

Each race has a accepted style and tone, with one exception...

The Tau, Tau fans like its less dark and more hopeful tone, and usually that is what has drawn many players to it ( that and cool looking models )

And as Kroothawk has stated the original design ethos that GW worked within.

I know thats what eventually drew me to them, it took a while, and was what actually kept me in the hobby, I had long ago tired of the gothic and overly dark atmosphere of the setting its unique quality had grown stale to me.

But something new sparked my interest, and I dabbled in the Tau and their worldview and look, and it rekindled my ethusiasim for the game and setting.


Now I know there are many non-tau fans who find them un-fitting to the setting and such are set against them being less grimdark then their own favorite race/army whatnot. Thats fine you dont have to play them collect them or even read about them, and if its such a issue you dont even need to play against them, unless tournies are your thing.
And if in future editions GW sees itself fit to darken them yet further oh well not much we can do about it, I will likely continue in the same vein as I have been for a few years now, and maintain my Septs much more hopeful mindset.

But thats my take on this faction, everyone has their own, live an let live, play and let play.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote: I will likely continue in the same vein as I have been for a few years now, and maintain my Septs much more hopeful mindset.

The great part is, this is compatible even if they get darker.

The tau can be totally evil deep down, but regular joes won't know it. You can play your sept the same way without conflicting with anyone else's ideas. They can just tell themselves that your dudes don't know the truth. Everyone is happy!

Brother Coa wrote:If you allow me....

Tau are like US today, using propaganda and promises of better life to carve their way into the galaxy. When in reality they are just like any other conquering race, just without slaughtering people ( remembers Nimbosa and Taros ) ... forget that - without opening fire first and asking questions later.

Point is that Tau are using the weakest thing of their enemies: their own people. By offering better life conditions and better protection and much more attention to their problem they are in fact turning people against their own flesh and blood to join their cause. Later telling that it is the will of the people that want them to stay.

But Tau are newcomers and tolerate many things that Humanity isn't because they didn't see the horrors of the galaxy. They are located in rather calm part of the galaxy were Ultramarines are dormant and as a result of that there is peace there ( remember how Matt said that they are very busy Chapter in keeping the peace tryout the galaxy? ). And if we see entire Tau history the only real fight they had so far are against Imeprium ( Damocles, Nimbosa and Zeist ) and a conflict with Gorgon. They never faced Chaos invasion of Black Crusade proportions, an Ork WARGHHH!!! of Armageddon proportions, full NEcron uprising ( like Damnos ) and other major conflicts.

For now they are they are race using Grater Good as a paravan to hide their real intentions of ruling the galaxy. But I thin kas they progress more and more and discover more and more they will become more and more grimdark.

Honestly, this is a pretty intelligent and nuanced port by Coa.

I have been harboring a theory on how they will expand the Tau background and fluff, I think the Septs will become much more pronounced as a play style, in the manner of the NewCrons, having a tone set by their tombworld/overlord .

Tau septs may become more individual with each having its own (simular) versions of the Greater good and how to execute its tenants.

Some may be heavy handed, others may be more diplomatic, others may even implement sterilization and limited allied races, since the Ethereals have already displayed differences in methods, and septs are known for various traditions or strengths.

I have a feeling this will be how GW makes the Tau a more 40k-isn race that can validate it even fighting itself, since as it stands now, unless its the farsight sept vs. Tau Empire its seems very unfluffy to have Tau on Tau conflict, even tabletop wise.
(and yes I know they can always play the "training" card like if BA fight BA )

It just seems a trend that has been developing and most recently surfaced in the here to fore unified Necrons, who now can have every fluffy reason to slaughter one another.

Well thats my crazy 8 ball prediction of Tau fluff future.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Honestly, this is a pretty intelligent and nuanced port by Coa.

Thank you my good men.

Indeed, everyone provides VERY good points. I guess the amount of Grimdarkness the Tau have is in the Eyes of the Beholder.
Cha- I actually like that idea, then a player could possibly create their own sept with unique features, kind of like player made SM chapters

Harriticus wrote:Even though the Tau are hardly 100% innocent, they're still a helluva better then anyone else and I'd much rather live under Tau rule. I stand by that.

Until you're put in to a slave camp and have your balls cut off so you can't breed, right?

Never was a big fan of that book but now that you mention it, it definitely does seem like the 40k writers got some inspiration from Brave new world and books like it. Nice spotting!

Melissia wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Even though the Tau are hardly 100% innocent, they're still a helluva better then anyone else and I'd much rather live under Tau rule. I stand by that.

Until you're put in to a slave camp and have your balls cut off so you can't breed, right?

I thought that was only in the Dawn of War series, where does it actually say that in the fluff? Unless your counting DOW as your fluff.

Fralethepalewhale wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Even though the Tau are hardly 100% innocent, they're still a helluva better then anyone else and I'd much rather live under Tau rule. I stand by that.

Until you're put in to a slave camp and have your balls cut off so you can't breed, right?

I thought that was only in the Dawn of War series, where does it actually say that in the fluff? Unless your counting DOW as your fluff.

It's all fluff. But fluff contradicts other fluff fairly often. According to Gav Thorpe, there is no distinction in importance or "truthness" between studio material and licensed productions - they are all just different interpretations of the same 'verse, none being more valid than the other, and you're supposed to pick what you like, or come up with your own ideas.

Though even in DoW it wasn't quite stated this dramatically. Not that this would not mean that one couldn't simply take it that way if he or she so wished.