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Back to basics.

NOTE: Latest list here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/427683.page#3878567

* HQ (100pts)

* Librarian (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Psyker)
Bolt Pistol, Null Zone, Power Armour, The Avenger

* Elites (125pts)

* Dreadnought (125pts)
Twin-Linked Autocannon, Twin-Linked Autocannon

* Troops (645pts)

* Tactical Squad (205pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino (Repair, Tank), 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

* Tactical Squad (220pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
(Tank)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer

* Tactical Squad (220pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
(Tank)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer

* Fast Attack (270pts)

* Land Speeder Squadron (90pts)
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher

* Land Speeder Squadron (90pts)
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher

* Land Speeder Squadron (90pts)
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher

* Heavy Support (360pts)

* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons

* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons

* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons

I'm very aware of the lack of Melta. The best platforms for them are MM/HF Speeders or MM Attack Bikes. How should I restructure the list to accommodate either?

You could always get combi-melta on your sergeants. And I'd change the heavy bolter razorback, either upgrade the gun our drop back down to rhino. Everything else looks pretty solid.

Combi-Meltas are best used as anti-transport. I have quite a lot of that. My need for Melta is to crack AV14 without having to have my troops get close to it, as if that happens, the purpose of said AV14 has already been met.

I have HB Razorbacks because of 2 reasons:
1. A TL HB for 5 points is slowed cheap.
2. It allows me to have more anti-transport on my Preds.

What, no Thundefire Cannon?
In a gunline list, it would do awesome

This is true, it'd also reduce the need for ranged anti-infantry.

No Vulkan and you're a gunline, I'd loose the flamers.

thunder fire cannons could do a good job in this list. As for anti Av14, how about putting some dreadnoughts lascannons?

Drop one typhoon for 2 MM attack bikes? It's not a lot but will probably slag a land raider if it's out of cover.

You could squad up the remaining two typhoons, drop one pred and take another 2 MM attack bikes. It's not always easy finding good lanes for three preds anyway.

Lascannons as to go against AV14, eh, that's still not favorable.

Almarine, are you suggesting to field 4 MM Attack Bikes?

Yeah i would drop the 3rd Prde for 2x attack bikes. I have run the same 3 preds and they tend to "trip" over each other for fire lanes. The attack bike can still kill armour but are way more mobile. I would squadron 2 of the typhoons and run the attack bikes as a squad.

So here's the changes you guys are suggesting:

No Name (1490pts)
1500pt Space Marines 5th Ed (2008) Roster (Standard)

Selections:

* HQ (100pts)

* Librarian (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Psyker)
Bolt Pistol, Null Zone, Power Armour, The Avenger

* Elites (125pts)

* Dreadnought (125pts)
Twin-Linked Autocannon, Twin-Linked Autocannon

* Troops (645pts)

* Tactical Squad (220pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
(Tank)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer

* Tactical Squad (205pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino (Repair, Tank), 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

* Tactical Squad (220pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
(Tank)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer

* Fast Attack (380pts)

* Attack Bike Squadron (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics)
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta

* Attack Bike Squadron (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics)
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta

* Land Speeder Squadron (180pts)
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher

* Heavy Support (240pts)

* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons

* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons

So do I understand correctly that you guys are suggesting to run 4 Attack Bikes?

Attack bikes are great in squads of three for 150 points. Will crack av14. Another thing that makes attack bikes great. A lot of games I've used them in they are over looked for other targets. I don't know why, but they are.

Four attack bikes yes. 2x2.

Only downside to running a bunch of attack bikes is they cost !MUCHOS DINEROS!

Personally I think I'd take rhinos over razorbacks here. With this setup you have to combatsquad two tactical squads or they don't get a ride. With a rhino you can choose, and all you lose is a TLHB. Even for running the librarian it will probably be better for you to stick him in a rhino with a combatsquad as you can cast avenger/flame out of the fire points that razorbacks don't have.

Are you putting the marines inside the razorback, if you are you'll have to combat squad since they only hold 6 models, what about fitting a dev squad w/ 4 RL in there for 150 points? maby for a rhino and losing 1 marine off two squads?

Thunderfires are indeed tasty. Killed 6 khorne beserkers in one go with one recently. But I found it totally useless against vehicles, as being strength 6 just isn't quite good enough.

S6 TFC is still effective, just against transport (Av 10 vehicles). Yes, it does scatter, but its a 1/3 chance not to, and your firing 4 shots. Your bound to hit something right on and do some damage.

Almarine wrote:Four attack bikes yes. 2x2.

Only downside to running a bunch of attack bikes is they cost !MUCHOS DINEROS!

Personally I think I'd take rhinos over razorbacks here. With this setup you have to combatsquad two tactical squads or they don't get a ride. With a rhino you can choose, and all you lose is a TLHB. Even for running the librarian it will probably be better for you to stick him in a rhino with a combatsquad as you can cast avenger/flame out of the fire points that razorbacks don't have.

I already have 2 Attack Bikes from the Vulkan list that I'm currently running (albeit there's something wrong with the list that I'm trying to figure out).

I am going to combat squad all of the Tacs in order to have the ML firing. I would have given them all Razorbacks if I had a 3rd upgrade sprue, but I only have 2. Might have to find a cheap one.

There are 2 reasons why I'm going Razorbacks over Rhinos in this list:

- It's a gunline. The guys inside are not going to be zooming around looking for targets, so the lack of firepoints does not concern me. In other lists, it would.
- A TL-HB for 5 points is the best deal for the weapon in the entire book. It also allows me to move my anti-infantry duty away from my Preds.

madman12367 wrote:Are you putting the marines inside the razorback, if you are you'll have to combat squad since they only hold 6 models, what about fitting a dev squad w/ 4 RL in there for 150 points? maby for a rhino and losing 1 marine off two squads?

No. Devastators are highly over-costed in this book and don't add much to this list that I don't already have.


For those of you suggestion a TFC, how should I modify the list to accommodate one? I've heard that they're never taken because of their fragility, but as someone else said, this is a gunline, this is a great list for it to be in.

Hmmm 150 points to put out a 4 Missle launcher dev squad is too expensive? For 50 more points than tfc you get 5 marines 4 templates, and can blow up most av pretty handily. Difficult for me to not see madmans point.

Devil Dog wrote:Hmmm 150 points to put out a 4 Missle launcher dev squad is too expensive? For 50 more points than tfc you get 5 marines 4 templates, and can blow up most av pretty handily. Difficult for me to not see madmans point.

On the contary, you get 4 templates at S6 from a TFC, at 50 points less, with the ability to slow them down, increase cover in a ruin, and a handy techmarine (for vurtually no points) when the TFC blows up. TFC are so much more cost efficient.

After looking at results from SimHammer (http://uma-musado.com/cgi-bin/mathHammer.cgi), I've determined I don't need my Preds to be Autolas since I have sufficient anti-tank, but not enough anti-horde.

I was able to fit in a TFC after changing my Preds to be Dakka Preds and dropping the Combi-Flamers from my Sarges.

Here's what the list looks like now:

1500pt Space Marines 5th Ed (2008) Roster (Standard)

Selections:

* HQ (100pts)

* Librarian (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Psyker)
Bolt Pistol, Null Zone, Power Armour, The Avenger

* Elites (125pts)

* Dreadnought (125pts)
Twin-Linked Autocannon, Twin-Linked Autocannon

* Troops (625pts)

* Tactical Squad (205pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino (Repair, Tank), 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Boltgun

* Tactical Squad (210pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
(Tank)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Boltgun

* Tactical Squad (210pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
(Tank)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Boltgun

* Fast Attack (380pts)

* Attack Bike Squadron (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics)
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta

* Attack Bike Squadron (100pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics)
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta
* Attack Bike
Multi-Melta

* Land Speeder Squadron (180pts)
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher
* Land Speeder
(Deep Strike)
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher

* Heavy Support (270pts)

* Predator (85pts)
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters

* Predator (85pts)
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters

* Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)

Bump for more eyes to look at this list.

It looks pretty decent. The amount of gunfire is grim, and it should be fun with attack bikes and typhoons swooping around the place. You'll crumple instantly if charged, but that isn't part of the plan, right?

Exactly, abuse the 36"+ range as much as possible.

Yes its pretty expensive to buy an attack bike squadron. I bit the bullet and have 3 squadrons of three each. Very planned out army. So I could specialize where I needed. One of the reasons dakka is a good place to hear others opinions. Even the biased ones have value. I am thankful. To this end I cannot express enough about the idea I was given here about attack bikes. Why am I biased about them? They work. They are a win win every time I've ever used them. I've tried them with many looks now. They have a bit of everything. Woe to the army that under estimate them. They have pistol and surprise groups they've hurt bad by assaulting in the assault phase. That's 12 attacks from 3 models. Models with 2 HP and toughness 5. I imagine they could really devestate with heavy boltets vs troops. But they make tanks dissapear. They are fast and relentless. Moving shooting. And don't forget the twin linked bolters.


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All of which are assault weapons. Relentless.