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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/09 18:32:39
Subject: Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap
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Stalwart Space Marine
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Like the topic suggests, I had an Idea: Use a small squad Vanguard Vets or Assault marines as a tar pit for fast, elusive enemies (Eldar and equivalents) so heavy hitters (Read: CC Termies) can get to them with minimal fuss. If you are playing a game where that type of speed isn't really necessary for whatever reason, they could be deployed as bubble wrap or a counter-punch unit to protect an objective or valuable unit. Any thoughts on the validity of this in terms of it being competitive at any level?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/09 19:05:11
Subject: Re:Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
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I hate to say it, but Assault Marines are good at neither of these things.To be a tarpit, you need staying power, numbers and/or a fearless/stubborn equivalent. Assault Marines have none of these things. Any unit that the Assault Marines could legitimately tarpit probably costs a lot less than them and isn't worth tarpitting in the first place. Similarly, to be bubble wrap, you need staying power, numbers and/or be really cheap. TH/SS Terminators are very tough and a good buy, making them expensive but effective bubble wrap, while Guard blobs get a ton of models on the ground cheaply enough to be worth it. Assault Marines are just MEQ, they don't have the staying power or numbers to make effective bubble wrap.
Now if by "tarpit" and "bubble wrap" you mean a sacrificial unit to take charges or tie an enemy unit up for a turn, you can certainly use Assault Marines to run interference for your other squads. However, this is generally a poor idea because Assault Marines are way too expensive to be used as a sacrificial unit - it would be be better to spend their points in Land Speeders to help shoot the enemy down before they get to assault.
Possible? Yes. Competitive? Definitely not.
Edit: Same deal for Vanguard Vets, only they cost even more for the same staying power.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/09 19:08:42
1st and 2nd Company - 5000pts
86th Ultramar Regiment - 4000pts
Hive Fleet Kraken - 3000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/09 19:11:06
Subject: Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Beaver Dam, WI
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Perhaps you could tarpit with vanguard vets with stormshields but by the time you pay for the SS and the jump pack they are going to cost as much or more than your true hammer unit. In that case, why not buy another hammer?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/09 19:41:49
Subject: Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap
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Stalwart Space Marine
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DAaddict that is similar to what I was planning and yes it would be expensive, but by taking the second hammer unit I completely lose my ability run down squads faster than the Hammer unit. I don't know how many "fast" comptetitive armies there are that would be able to just evade everything I do until late in the game to completely justify taking that many points for slowing down something. I think I am over representing armies like jetbike Eldar in my mind and that is skewing my thought process
Roboute I can not say I can disagree with anything you said other than If I take a landspeeder (which don't get me wrong the only reason I don't is lack of physical models) to soften up a unit shooting before assault 2 things have happened.
1) I am no longer trying to slow down a specific unit so it can be attacked by my Termies.
2) I am now shooting the squad I am trying to assault and honestly in my experience a player that is trying to avoid cc will take models from the side closest to the assaulting threat, often pushing the squad out of assault range if the shooting was too good.
Again I may be over representing how many armies actually play like that at a competitive level so I guess this leaves me with the question.. How many competitive lists would actually play like this? (Very mobile and evasive that is)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/09 20:39:26
Subject: Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Beaver Dam, WI
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I will make an assumption- you are doing an attack list. This means you want to force the combat. Do not waste your time with assault or vanguards- stick your points into any version of Landraider - it will do the job. 12" move 2" disembark and 6" assault is going to get your hammer to where it needs to go a lot faster than any 12" move + 6" assault that a jump pack marine is going to give you.
If you want a counterassault unit. Then no need to worry as you can have a rhino with a counterattack unit within 8" of whatever your opponent assaults. This is the job of tacticals and I would just stick the points into another tactical squad - or grey hunter - or whatever troop choice. You need troops to control objectives and if you think you are going to need to sacrifice one to an opponents charge, why not just take an extra troop choice?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/09 20:40:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/09 23:35:29
Subject: Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap
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Stalwart Space Marine
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Fair enough.
That sounds logical enough.
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