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Hi Guys,
Im dusting off my CSM for a GW tournament at the end of febuary - last time I used them was when the third edition second codex came out.

My goal is 1) to use abaddon and typhus
2) it is to come as close as I can to winning a 1st, 2nd or 3rd placing.

HQ:

Abaddon - 275 pts
Typhus - 225 pts

Elites:

6 x terminators, lightning claw, icon of Teznich - 225 pts

6 x terminators, heavy flamer, 3 x combimelta, icon of Nurgle - 240 pts

Troops:

7 x PM with plasma gun - 176 pts

7 x PM with plasma gun - 176 pts

7 x PM with meltagun - 171 pts

5 x KB

5 x KB

Heavy Support:

2 x obliterators - 150 pts

2 x obliterators - 150 pts

Total = 1998 pts

Rules for tournament that matter for the list are here:

COMPOSITION

Composition will be a mix of set criteria and opponent scores.
The following criteria will be used to score each players army before the tournament.
Each player will start with a composition score of 13.
They will then have their composition modified as follows

-1 Composition point if the army has 5 or more large blast markers
-1 Composition point if the army has minimum Troop choices and they are minimum squad size
-1 Composition point if the army includes more Heavy Support choices than Troop choices
-1 Composition point if the army includes more Elite choices than Troop choices
-1 Composition point if the army includes more Fast Attack choices than Troop choices
-1 Composition point if the army has 5 kill points or less
+1 Composition point if the army has 5 or more scoring units
+1 Composition point if the army includes 2 HQ choices
-1 Composition point per day the list is late (Max -7points)
Up to - 4 Composition points for any overly tough combinations not listed here (judged by staff)


After each game players will vote which player had the harder list, if BOTH players agree then composition scores will be modified.
-1 Composition point if their list is voted the harder list
-2 Composition point if their list is voted the harder list a second time
-3 Composition point if their list is voted the harder list for a third time!

Cheers

So go for it guys - what do you think ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
how about this slightly modified list instead ?

HQ:

Abaddon - 275 pts
Typhus - 225 pts

Elites:

6 x terminators, reaper autocannon, combimelta, lightning claw, icon of Teznich - 255 pts

7 x terminators, heavy flamer, 3 x combimelta, icon of Nurgle - 270 pts

Troops:

7 x PM with plasma gun - 176 pts

7 x PM with plasma gun - 176 pts

7 x PM with meltagun - 171 pts

5 x CSM - 75 pts

5 x CSM - 75 pts

Heavy Support:

2 x obliterators - 150 pts

2 x obliterators - 150 pts

Total = 1998 pts

Keeping the Comp rules in mind ....

sumi808 wrote:Abaddon - 275 pts
Typhus - 225

25% of your army is HQ. Not so much a Comp item as a bad balance of points. I'd out one named HQ for a ... Lash Sorcerer or Lash DP. Hmm. Sorcerer. And spend those points on upgrades below.

sumi808 wrote:6 x terminators, reaper autocannon, combimelta, lightning claw, icon of Teznich - 255 pts
7 x terminators, heavy flamer, 3 x combimelta, icon of Nurgle - 270 pts

25% of points in two Termi-cide units. Too heavy, IMHO.

sumi808 wrote:7 x PM with plasma gun - 176 pts
7 x PM with plasma gun - 176 pts
7 x PM with meltagun - 171 pts
5 x CSM - 75 pts
5 x CSM - 75 pts

It looks like you took your 3e list, and simply split your troop choices into small bites.

The troops really need tweaking:
1. They need rhinos. Maybe not each unit, but a few. The CSM fo' sho'.
2. Two 5 man CSMs are easily shot up. I'd combine the CSM into one 10 man unit plus Icon for Morale.
3. To keep the 5 Troop choices for the Comp point, take your 21 PMs and make four groups of 5. And then each unit gets 2 guns. That's really big for increasing their offense.

sumi808 wrote:2 x obliterators - 150 pts
2 x obliterators -

It won't hurt your Comp, but split one pair into two singles. Better to split your fire and bad for him to split his.

Overall, I think there's way too many points in HQ and the two DeathStars of termies. You'll be struggling to win missions on objectives without a few rhinos as I'd ignore or tarpit your temies crews and both Typhus and Abad are on foot. So their 'names' might draw you that "his list was harder vote" but really, foot slogging?

sumi808 wrote:last time I used them was when the third edition second codex came out.

Have you been playing in 5e? IF so, then you'd know how much more Mech is involved in the game.

Good luck.

Hiya - thanks for your reply !

You are spot on in terms of the troops and how I did them form third edition to now. I like your recommendations and will be splitting them into 5,5,5,6,10 man squads. I also really like your suggestion with the heavy support. I realised after reading your reply that I forgot to mention what games will be played in the comp - they are ALL spearhead games.

I was thinking about the HQ and Elites - yeah thats 50 % of my army in 4 units muahahah - but with that in mind the new rules regarding Icons are awesome. My understanding (I may be wrong - if so please correct me, cause I dont wanna go on games day and find out I am !!) is that if I take the terminators as retinues for my HQ they automatically land where ever I want when I deep strike them

NO SCATTER, NO MISHAP

That being the case I can shoot up vehicles with them and assault the fleshy enemy troops. I was thinking of having one group with abaddon on the left and one group with typhus on the right of the enemy deployment for eg. That way I can pincer him or at least by having my termies spread out when he splits up his army i will hopefully be in range to shoot and assault more of his units. Im trying to use my termies not so much as suicide but as an elite combined arms force - kinda like my version of shock troopers - can deal with vehicles, monsterours creatures, hoards, vehicles and they got special characters for extra punch. As well as keep those bad boys alive

This shock and awe tactic may force his models to break cover where my obliterators can have a go at him or keep targeting his vehicles or monsterous creatures. I may even deep strike my 2 x 1 man obliterator squads within 6 inches of my termies that way the obliterators land directly on target as well, yeah !

Ill use the troops to capture table quarters - Ill take this list to the next games night at my store this coming week and play as many games as I can. I have read the dakka forums since reading your post and lots of army love using vehicles as you say. I dunno... im not so worried as I was initially after reading them as plasma guns, obliterators, meltas and power weapons (not powerfist) termies got a good chance against them.

Not sure though as this week will be my first week practicing with the new list and first time playing 5e - more C & C and honest opinions are needed I think - keep it flowing

So the latest list is below:

HQ:

Abaddon - 275 pts
Typhus - 225 pts

Elites:

6 x terminators, reaper autocannon, combimelta, lightning claw, icon of Teznich - 255 pts (Abaddons retinue, deep striking in)

7 x terminators, heavy flamer, 3 x combimelta, icon of Nurgle - 270 pts (Typhus retinue, deep striking in)

Troops:

5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts

5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts

6 x PM with meltagun - 148 pts

5 x PM - 115 pts

10 x CSM - 150 pts

Heavy Support:

2 x obliterators - 150 pts

1 x obliterators - 75 pts

1 x obliterators - 75 pts

Total = 1998 pts

sumi808 wrote: ... but with that in mind the new rules regarding Icons are awesome. My understanding (I may be wrong - if so please correct me, cause I dont wanna go on games day and find out I am !!) is that if I take the terminators as retinues for my HQ they automatically land where ever I want when I deep strike them

NO SCATTER, NO MISHAP

Not where you want, but within 6" of the icon. Yes, icons help with Deep Striking. However, icons will do little good strategically, if the unit with the icon is still in your deploy zone or has barely started walking across the table, even if Spearhead. Do you I take it, that with the modifications, below, you don't have rhinos?

If not, then I wouldn't bother Deep Striking the Termies. Just march on with the rest of your footsolggers.

sumi808 wrote:That being the case I can shoot up vehicles with them and assault the fleshy enemy troops.

That's often the plan. Kill the enemy Khymera and hope to get the troops that bailed out.

sumi808 wrote: I was thinking of having one group with abaddon on the left and one group with typhus on the right of the enemy deployment for eg. That way I can pincer him or at least by having my termies spread out when he splits up his army i will hopefully be in range to shoot and assault more of his units.

It's reasonable, but again, without a rhino to really bring that icon into enemy territory Turn 1, it's kinda pointless.

Have you faced the tourney stompers: GK (three different tourney builds so far), SW razorspam, BA SRGs, and DE venom spam? The GKs are the least mobile, but have enough fire power to really hurt. And the others I mentioned can stand back and shoot. DE armies *love* Spearhead.

sumi808 wrote:Ill use the troops to capture table quarters

Good idea, but they need Rhinos.

sumi808 wrote:5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts
5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts
6 x PM with meltagun - 148 pts
5 x PM - 115 pts
10 x CSM - 150 pts

How come you aren't putting in two special guns for each unit? And the CSM icon?

This is what i would say about your list, give the first termie squad the mark of slaanesh instead. Int. 5 lighting claws is mean. Using those 2 Hqs might give you a hit on comp. Some people might see you bringing those 2 as a d-bag move. Other than the termies with a different icon it looks like a pretty solid list. just make sure to use the plague marines as cover and move everything forward while using the berserk as object gofers. This is for your first posted list, which i think would be the better of the choices to run

Hi Guys

Hmmm this has given me some food for thought - I didnt realise that the icon needs to be on the field already

This is a thorn in my side as I don't have a rhino model or any extra special weapons needed for my infantry squads - I do have an icon for my 10 marines though so I can add that in no worries. These are also all the chaos models that I own (Im using my KB as normal CSM).

So the list with modifications now goes like:


HQ:

Abaddon - 275 pts
Typhus - 225 pts

Elites:

6 x terminators, 1 x combimelta, 2 x lightning claw, icon of slaneesh - 230 pts (Abaddons retinue, deep striking in)

7 x terminators, heavy flamer, 3 x combimelta, 1 x lightning claw, icon of Nurgle - 285 pts (Typhus retinue, deep striking in)

Troops:

5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts

5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts

6 x PM with meltagun - 148 pts

5 x PM - 115 pts

10 x CSM with icon of chaos undivided - 160 pts

Heavy Support:

2 x obliterators - 150 pts

1 x obliterators - 75 pts

1 x obliterators - 75 pts

Total = 1998 pts

But then again I have not seen the competitive tourney lists for GK,SW,BA or DE - what should I include in my list to counter their builds ? What is the standard chaos compeditive tourny list ? Are these 4 armies the most popular at the moment ?

But then again I have not seen the competitive tourney lists for GK,SW,BA or DE - what should I include in my list to counter their builds ? What is the standard chaos compeditive tourny list ? Are these 4 armies the most popular at the moment ?

What other minis can you bring to the field? But honestly; not having rhinos is a big issue.

A solid CSM list is the standard Lash-Prince built, it's something like:
Lash-prince x2
5 Plague marines w/2meltagun in rhino x3
8 Berserkers w/champ/PW in rhino x2
Obliterators x6-9

Yep, GK,DE,BA,SW, and the not yet mentioned IG, are all pretty popular, and can eat foot lists for breakfast.

If you have a lot of standard CSMs, and summoned demons; you could try for a horde type army. Just try to swarm the enemy in power armored bodies, and hope for the best.
I'm not saying it'll be a winning tourney list though, just something you don't see very often.

sumi808 wrote: These are also all the chaos models that I own (Im using my KB as normal CSM).

Abaddon - 275 pts
Typhus - 225 pts
6 x terminators, 1 x combimelta, 2 x lightning claw, icon of slaneesh - 230 pts (Abaddons retinue, deep striking in)
7 x terminators, heavy flamer, 3 x combimelta, 1 x lightning claw, icon of Nurgle - 285 pts (Typhus retinue, deep striking in)
5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts
5 x PM with plasma gun - 130 pts
6 x PM with meltagun - 148 pts
5 x PM - 115 pts
10 x CSM with icon of chaos undivided - 160 pts
2 x obliterators - 150 pts
1 x obliterators - pts
1 x obliterators - pts

This is as good as it'll get until you spend money and get rhinos. Although, I'd paint a stripe on the base of one model in each squad and nominate that guy as the second plasmagun, metlagun, etc. You'll be happy for the extra shot. I can't imagine that any opponent will squawk about it.

sumi808 wrote:But then again I have not seen the competitive tourney lists for GK,SW,BA or DE - what should I include in my list to counter their builds ?

Those are the top performers for 'Ard Boyz 2011, in order. They are also what I see at my FLGS's RTTs month in and out. The marines are tough as nails and have more fire power than your CSM do. There's not much more you can do to change or tweak to beat them.
1. There's about 3 or so GK lists, Crowe Purifier spam, Pallies, and lately, Coteaz's Henchmen-in-Razors.
2. I've seen 5 different kinds of BAs at tourneys. They often finish mid-ground though.
3. SWs used to have TWC, but I've seen less and less in favor of Las-Plas-Razor/LongFang spam.
4. DE? It's the venoms, and they'll hurt your list the worst. I know fo' sho' as I've been playing DE venom spam for most of 2011. No better set up than to have the enemy's boyz on the ground for the venoms' guns.

sumi808 wrote:What is the standard chaos compeditive tourny list ? Are these 4 armies the most popular at the moment ?

The typical Chaos SM list is dual Lash DPs, PM troop units with 2 special guns, in rhinos. 9 Oblits. Even then, the 4 lists above out gun 'em.

My last bit of advice would be to go, have fun, get clobbered, but enjoy the beating. Even if you had a top-notch GK list, an RTT's missions have secondary or tertiary goals that are hard to keep in mind as Turn 4winds down.

It took me a few RTTs to start coming up with 2-1 or 1-1-1 finishes. 6 RTTs to get a Best General, which I haven't done since. Heck, lately, it's been 1-2 and then a Best Sportsman win.

hey guys

thanks for the replies and helpful advice - I think the advice is looking better and I look forward to the tournament alot. Those 5 armies you guys are talking about are sounding nasty, I have been looking at their codexes and some of those lists, lots of re-rolls ! Mobile cover in the form of rhinos sounds like a good idea - but ill go along with the army I got and see how I go.

Good luck for your RTTs !