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Since my brother doesn't have a dakkadakka account he asked me to post this for him:
His "Custom Guy"
WS:6 BS: 5 S: 4 (was 6) T:5 W: 3 ( was 4) I: 6 A:4 ( was 6) LD: 10 SV: 2+ INV: 3+
Wargear:
artificer armor
storm bolter
Sword of Nocturne: hand forged relic blade that gives him rending and 2d6 on armour penetration. he also gets +d6 attacks on the charge and he can reroll all failed to wound rolls.
Shield Of Vulkan: A Master Crafted shield that gives off a 3+ invuln save. It reflects back all attacks on him that he saves with a 6
Prototyp Alpha Jump Pack: he counts as jump infantry and can move 18" in the movement phase
Special Rules:
Furious charge
atsknf
In case of instant wound he can save himself on a 5+
eternal warrior

all commetary appreciated

This character is ridiculously over powered, there is no way it is balanced and requires massive over haul. He'll get 9, strengh 6 power weapon attacks on the charge and ignores most basic troop attacks, and that's on a roll of one for his extra d6 attacks. A 3+ Invunrable save, toughness 5 and 4 wounds along with eternal warrior means it will take ridiculous amounts of enemy attacks to kill him.

What he said.

blood reaper wrote:This character is ridiculously over powered, there is no way it is balanced and requires massive over haul. He'll get 9, strengh 6 power weapon attacks on the charge and ignores most basic troop attacks.

It would be 9+d6 (average of 12) S7 power weapon attacks on the charge, actually. With re-rolls to wound, no less. With an 18" charge range, and Infiltrate, which he also confers to any unit you want. . . Oh, and he's Fleet, too. So a guaranteed first-turn charge, then.

I'm thinking about 500 points. Maybe 550.

Okay, i'm going to ask for suitable justifications for the following:

S6
T5
W4
A6
Sword of Nocturne adding a further D6 attacks and 2D6 armour penetration in addition to re-rolling any failed wounds, which will be few and far between anyway due to S6
Shield of Vulkan being a Storm Shield without the downside of no extra attacks, in fact it adds an extra attack on the charge for no apparent reason
A combat monster having a 12" move and Fleet, allowing for a potential charge range of 24"
Furious Charge
Infiltrate
Fearless; ATSKNF has no reason to be replaced that I can see
Eternal Warrior - For the love of all that is holy and unholy, and to preserve the sanity of those who pass through this forum, remove this unnecessary addition.

Essentially what you have is:
A WS6 character that can charge 24" and get a potential 14 power weapon attacks on said charge at S7, I6, re-rolling failed wounds, and possessing T5, a 2+/3++, 4 wounds and being immune to ID so that any remaining enemies have next to no chance of harming him. If charging a Vehicle, he gets a potential 14 attacks with an average armour penetration roll of 14; not even Daemon Princes or Trygons or a good number of Monstrous Creatures get that.

What is not wrong there?

All he's missing is the sword of nocturne being a force weapon he can activate without a psychic test and you're pretty much set as being one of the most unnecessarily OP mary-sue characters around.

I can't suggest any changes that wouldn't amount to a complete and utter overhaul of the character, and i'd start by asking just what it is your friend wants to achieve with a custom SM character, what his background is, and what the justifications for his equipment, statline, and special rules are.

ummm......easy there he's 9 1st of all so he really has no fluff nor justification for any of this.....2nd he would like his guy to be 200 or 225 points....do you have any suggestions?...

BigMek GitStompa wrote:ummm......easy there he's 9 1st of all so he really has no fluff nor justification for any of this.....2nd he would like his guy to be 200 or 225 points....do you have any suggestions?...

We've given them, and basically this character really can't really work.

Next question why have 45 people looked at my brother's thing and 5 peole commented on it and on my other opponent's guy 224 people looed at it and 19 people commented on it but yet my ork guy has got 37 views and 0 comments
here's a link:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/429391.page

BigMek GitStompa wrote:Next question why have 45 people looked at my brother's thing and 5 peole commented on it and on my other opponent's guy 224 people looed at it and 19 people commented on it but yet my ork guy has got 37 views and 0 comments
here's a link:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/429391.page

Um.....

You do realise several people may have though "Oh God, not this again" when they saw the characters stats. It like this is so ridiculously overpowered.

blood reaper wrote:

BigMek GitStompa wrote:Next question why have 45 people looked at my brother's thing and 5 peole commented on it and on my other opponent's guy 224 people looed at it and 19 people commented on it but yet my ork guy has got 37 views and 0 comments
here's a link:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/429391.page

Um.....

You do realise several people may have though "Oh God, not this again" when they saw the characters stats. It like this is so ridiculously overpowered.

kinda figured so.....
anyway i fixed the stats in this thread...is this any better?

If you can drop his stats back to regular marine stats then it'd be better. I'm sure he can live with that, don't say that you are cutting his stats or anything, just say anonymous people on the internet said space marines should be more along these lines, because they are super soldiers. See how he takes that, then we'll consider the other restrictions this guy needs to become 220 points. If he doesn't want any drop in stats, there will be no way he can become 220ish points, sorry. But if you explain it right, I'm sure we can get this guy reasonable and on the board!

You've lowered it slightly, you've barley done anything. Also his strengh is still six on the charge.

You could drop the T5 to 4, but give him bionics (maybe like the old rule) so that he can ignore losing his last wound on a roll of 6? That way you can say 'look, he still has a way of fighting through death' and it also means you can model him really well (if you are doing the model for him, if not, I'm sure he'd enjoy having a crack at it)

adapted again....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
how is it now?

He's somewhat better, remove Eternal Warrior.

silly

drop the sword
extra attacks on the shield
and EW

add "in case of instant death kustom marine can save one wound on 5+ once per game"

I'm happy with his stats now (WS to Ld). Artificer armour is fine. A Storm Shield really shouldn't give +2 attacks. All Storm Shields (excepting Arjac's) seem to be defensive more than offensive (unless theres one in the DA or BT dex, I don't have those sorry), so I'd stick with the 3++. If you want a second ability for it, maybe something to do with reflecting anything you save on a 6 in CC, or force a Ld check on one enemy unit in btb else they strike at WS1 (shield owner's choice). Something like that, not +2 attacks on the charge.

Sword of Nocturne could do with an adjustment. Maybe roll 2D6 but pick the highest for attacking vehicles, and instead of +D6 have just +1, it'll still mean 5 attacks on the charge which is pretty neat for a model with a Storm Shield.

I have to echo the removal of the Eternal Warrior, and I'm not sure if Fleet is spread to the squad. If it is, then you'll have to alter that (or just cut the fleet part all together)

he's trying to prevent instant death....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
w/o eternal warrior how can we make this possible?

BigMek GitStompa wrote:he's trying to prevent instant death....

illuknisaa wrote:
add "in case of instant death kustom marine can save one wound on 5+ once per game"

So, obviously he wants a fast, sneaky guy, with lots of powerful attacks, and a decent amount of survivability.

Here is what you do.

First, You make a model with badass wings, a badass sword, and a badass shield. I recommend any decent Paladin (the stereotypical kind) model, as they tend to be really awesome and also badass.

Second, you take your brother to the table, and place the model on the table. You ask him, "How far should he be able to jump with a big flap of his wings?" Mark how far he indicates. If it seems reasonable, this is the total distance the character can now move each turn in total - i.e. split it up between movement and assault.

If it's unreasonable (i.e. really small, or over ~2 feet), ask him if he really thinks that's fair to the other people who have to play on the board. If he thinks it is, tell him he'll have to deepstrike instead of normal movement. (Tell him that this means the man has jumped so high, that when he falls he's going so fast that even a little bit of moving will take him aaaaallllllll the way over... there! And "there" is where you rolled your scatter dices. Also explain to him that sometimes he might jump off the board by accident, and ask if he's okay with that - if he has a powerful grasp of the rules, tell him that what he's suggesting is really powerful, and you need to introduce dice-rolls to it, or it'll make other people think it's unfair - which it is). We can let him assault from deepstrike, but it helps mitigate instagib a little.

Third - Tone down the stats and equipment - I suggest the following changes

WS 6 BS 5 S 5 T 5 W 3 I 6 A 5 Ld 10 Sv 2+/3++

The sword is Rending and grants +1 attacks, and +2 attacks on the charge - he now has 7 attacks on the charge (Respectable, but not too broken), and 5 attacks everywhere else.

The Stormshield can just be a normal Stormshield. If he really wants it to be something, we can remove the sword's rending, and instead let the stormshield grant melta bombs - which is a pretty cool image, when you think about it.

Artificer and Stormbolter are fine.

Furious Charge is alright. Fleet is not. Infiltrate is alright (movement likely won't matter after step 2,) but Eternal Warrior is... not. He has no reason to avoid force weapons or S10. Explain to your brother that having lots of wounds that are hard to take away, when you can take away your opponents wounds really easily, is not fair. It's like having a friend with only 1 arm - would you take his candy, when he can't defend himself or take your candy as easily? Using real-world examples to explain why being unfair in a game is not fun is a powerful tool.

For 250 points, he now has lots of attacks, at a decent power, but is also a tad bit more fragile - despite his movespeed buff.

okay.....how much would you say its worth now?

BigMek GitStompa wrote:ummm......easy there he's 9 1st of all so he really has no fluff nor justification for any of this.....2nd he would like his guy to be 200 or 225 points....do you have any suggestions?...

Ok, that's fine; what we're telling you is that in order to get him down to that point level, he's gonna need to lose a lot of this stuff. Here are a few suggestions;

-Strength; 4, not 6.

-Attacks; 4, not 6.

-Sword of Nocturne; Make it a Relic Blade (this will bump your Strength back up to 6). D6 extra attacks on the charge, replacing (not adding to) the normal +1, and then no extra attacks on subsequent rounds; OR, cut it down to a flat +2 with no charge bonus.

-Shield of Vulkan: Make it a master-crafted Storm Shield, allowing him to re-roll one failed Invulnerable save per turn.

-Prototype Alpha Jump Pack: . . . No. Certainly not in combination with Infiltrate. Either make this a normal Jump Pack, or remove Infiltrate; I would favor removing Infiltrate, as this does not look like a sneaky character to me. Of course it's up to you and your brother, but you need to do one or the other.

Special Rules:
-Take Infiltrate away. Infiltrating with a Fleet Jump Infantry model will guarantee a first-turn charge; that's bad.
-Furious Charge doesn't do anything except increase his Initiative if you change the Sword of Nocturne to being a Relic Blade, so you might replace it with Deep Strike. If you keep it as a normal power weapon then Furious Charge is just fine, keep it.
-Remove Bionics, this guy doesn't need to be any tougher.
-With the changes above, Eternal Warrior would be acceptable; Mephiston, a comparable character, has no Invulnerable save but does get psychic powers, which is about a wash. Ghazghkull has more limited mobility but is better in CC, so that's also about a wash.

Those changes would put you somewhere in the 225-250 point range.

so he's good now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i adapted it to your comments btw

Still over the top. Marines are S4/T4. Use the Captain stat line and don't change it. Maybe add one attack if you really want, but use that, and don't modify it.

A 2+/3++ is fine, but D6 attacks on the charge is a little much. If it was +2 or D3, it'd be better. Don't allow re-roll of all failed wounds and hits, instead, make it so you have to pick one before he swings. Either wounds or hits, not both.

I also really don't like custom characters with Eternal Warrior for a number of reasons. Needless to say, the character would be better and more balanced without it.

I wouldn't say so, no.

-He's still re-rolling failed To Wound rolls. That's pretty powerful.

-I'm not quite sure what you mean by "reflecting" attacks, but if you mean he causes an equivalent hit to the opposing unit, that's EXTREMELY powerful, and it actually gets better the more powerful the unit attacking him is.

-Moving 18" in the Movement phase is 6" more than Jump Infantry are allowed to do, and that's actually a bigger buff than Fleet would be. It gives him a guaranteed 24" charge radius.

-If by 'instant wound' you mean Instant Death, that line is redundant because he has Eternal Warrior, which prevents Instant Death anyway. Nothing in the game wounds automatically, so you can just remove this.

As he stands, I would say he's still a 300+ point unit.

BigMek GitStompa wrote:Since my brother doesn't have a dakkadakka account he asked me to post this for him:
His "Custom Guy"
WS:6 BS: 5 S: 4 (was 6) T:5 W: 3 ( was 4) I: 6 A:4 ( was 6) LD: 10 SV: 2+ INV: 3+
Wargear:
artificer armor
storm bolter
Sword of Nocturne: hand forged relic blade that gives him rending and 2d6 on armour penetration. he also gets +d6 attacks on the charge and he can reroll all failed to wound rolls.
Shield Of Vulkan: A Master Crafted shield that gives off a 3+ invuln save. It reflects back all attacks on him that he saves with a 6
Prototyp Alpha Jump Pack: he counts as jump infantry and can move 18" in the movement phase
Special Rules:
Furious charge
atsknf
In case of instant wound he can save himself on a 5+
eternal warrior
all commetary appreciated

Stats: Drop the T down to 4 i think.
Sword- I think you should take away the 2d6 on armor pen. as well as the +d6 on the charge as well as the re-rolling to wound.
Shield- Take away the attack reflection.
Jump Pack- Make it a regular jump pack.
And the eternal warrior just has to go

Just my 2 cents