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Hi this is what i'm taking to a tournie some mates and I have organised. I am determined to take either a voidraven or razorwing as i have the model painted and it looks cool, but what do you think of my force?

I played against a mate the other day who had a couple of hydras and that went badly. Tend to find that I murder most marines with this, aside from GK for obvious reasons. So think i will struggle with IG and GK, but I know there is a pile of wolves players going and I feel confident about that

HQ
Succubus with agoniser and haywire grenades 90

Troops
5 warriors with blaster, venom with x 2 splinter cannons 125
5 warriors with blaster, venom with x 2 splinter cannons 125
5 warriors with shredder, venom with x 2 splinter cannons 115
9 wyches, raider with nightshields and aethersails 165
10 wyches with hekatrix with agoniser, all with haywire grenades, raider with nightshields and aethersails 225

Heavy support
Ravager with x3 dark lances with nightshields 115
Ravager with x3 dark lances with nightshields 115
Voidraven Bomber with x 2 void lances, void mine, x 2 shatterfield missiles, nightshields 175

1250

Most people tend to take Flickerfields over Nightshields... They are more practical to a fast moving army that gets close.

The list is pretty decent... I only see one thing I would add and that is to remove the Aethersails and nightshields etc... try to free up 60 pts somehow.... Then add a Haemy with Liq.

Removing the 10th wych and adding him to the raider will give that unit FNP right off the bat and the haemy can stay in the boat roasting folks.... Its a great DE tactic...

I would swap the succubus for a Haemonculous. He gives your wyches much more survivability. I would also get him a Liquifier. A hekatrix w/ Agoniser would also be neccessary. I would turn the 10 man wych squads into 2 warrior squads like you already have.

Flickerfields are vastly better to NS. Especially with GK. consider that they use a lot of assault cannons. If you use Blasters they will be in range to shoot you. If you try to use SC or dark lances then things like Lascannons and autocannons will be able to hit you. FF at least give you a chance.

I do actually like the voidraven but I would leave the missiles behind and swap the NS for FF.

This might not be exactly what you're looking for, but I've posted this 1250 list here before with good responses. It's incredibly boring, but also very effective. If nothing else, maybe it'll give you some ideas. 1250 is a great point value for Dark Eldar.

Good luck!

thanks for the replies

I would like to keep the succubus, but yeah I realise that a haemo gives the wyches a real boost. I dropped the hekatrix on that wych squad as I was trying to squeeze in as much stuff as possible and the succubus was riding with them providing more definitive agoniser attacks, but I reckon I can drop some upgrades and squeeze in a haemo onto one of the wych squads though, like this:

HQ
Succubus with agoniser 85
Haemonculus 50

Troops
5 warriors with blaster, venom with x 2 splinter cannons 125
5 warriors with blaster, venom with x 2 splinter cannons 125
5 warriors with shredder, venom with x 2 splinter cannons 115
9 wyches, raider with aethersails 155
9 wyches with hekatrix with agoniser, all with haywire grenades, raider with aethersails 213

Heavy support
Ravager with x3 dark lances with nightshields 115
Ravager with x3 dark lances with nightshields 115
Voidraven Bomber with x 2 void lances, void mine,nightshields 155

1248

Haemo rides with haywire wyches and the succubus with the non heka wyches.
Feel i'm a little light on the old anti-infantry blasts though that my voidraven (or razorwing) was gonna provide for me. I actually prefer nightshields over flickers - I'd rather not take a hit than have to try and save one. If i'm going second it can really help my ravagers etc survive by being out of range of missiles, lascannons etc

Akroma06 wrote:I do actually like the voidraven but I would leave the missiles behind and swap the NS for FF.

I wish I could agree with you (I'd love a chance to use the Razorwing model), but against AV12, Ravagers will score the same number of average penetrates and 50% more glances. Against anything with a lower AV value, Ravagers will also score more penetrates, and the discrepancy only grows as you face lower AV targets.

The voidraven is basically a 40 point closed-topped "upgrade" to the Ravager. It gets a void mine and supersonic, but that comes at the expense of firepower against lower AV targets. Sometimes, you just need that third lance.

don't have that many venoms unfortunately dude, and the tournie is on saturday. But it is a filth list!

have got my numbers wrong as it doesnt add up now!

Caranthir987 wrote:I actually prefer nightshields over flickers - I'd rather not take a hit than have to try and save one. If i'm going second it can really help my ravagers etc survive by being out of range of missiles, lascannons etc

Both missile launchers and lascannons have a 48" range. You've got a 12" move and 36" range. If you want to be able to fire on them without firing on you, you have to be able to accurately judge the difference between 42" and 48" -- and by necessity, that's going to be at a diagonal. If you're too short, they're going to be able to hit you anyway. If you're too far away, you're going to move into range, miss the opportunity to fire, and get shot at anyway. And if the target can move and shoot, all of this is null and void since their 6" movement will place cancel any advantage the nightshields might have provided in the first place.

Even if you can do that reliably, it still only helps you at the beginning of half your games. Compare flickerfields, which cost the same and let you ignore 1/3 of the firepower pointed at you. Mathematically, this means that the target now needs to spend 50% more firepower to get the same chance of popping your ship.

It's your army and your game, but there's some good rationale behind the conventional thinking. Maybe it's worth considering?

I get were your coming from. I have found nightshields particularly useful, and against armies like purifier spam excellent. But I do regret not having flickers from the outflanking vendettas of death (which I know there will be a few of at this tournament!)

I have a few practice games tomorrow so i'll give it a go swapping all my nightshields for flickers and see how it goes.

If nothing else, at least do it on your Ravagers. You can get some benefit on your raiders and venoms for avoiding things in rapid fire range, but cutting 48" down to 42" isn't doing you a lot of favors.

Best of luck. You seem pretty well informed, so I've no doubt you'll do well!

So I'm a touch confused on why you want the succubus so badly...int? She costs so much more and you could get some of the better upgrades back. Things like a blaster in place of that shredder. Flickers on the raiders, and maybe a liquifier on the haemy. Don't drop hekatrixes for upgrades elsewhere. If you do just drop the squad. Wyches and hekatrixes are the same as boys and their nob. They are wounds for the sgt to get his attacks.

I've already explained why FF typically are better than NS. Yes you can dodge me for one turn...until I move up. From then on you will be out of range. A 48" Lascannon from a dev/longfang squad isn't going to care if one of his buddies gets zapped by a DL. But when he firest his LC at the Ravager that did it the NS won't save it. Flickers can. Oh and if you want to use the void mine then NS definently won't help.

@ Corollax: I know that mathmatically a Ravager is supperior...I just can't seem to down LR with normal dark lances. The +1 S really seems to help me for some reason. I'd rather use it over a razorwing even though the model does look gorgeous.

Akroma06 wrote:@ Corollax: I know that mathmatically a Ravager is supperior...I just can't seem to down LR with normal dark lances. The +1 S really seems to help me for some reason. I'd rather use it over a razorwing even though the model does look gorgeous.

And whenever I actually get to use my lances on something AV14, it tends to fold like paper. Monoliths, Land Raiders...any occasion where I actually get to use my lance rule, I have no trouble. But for some reason, Chimeras always seem to give me trouble.

That's the thing about anecdotal evidence, though. It's anecdotal. You just have to play the averages, whether it's working for you or not. The law of large numbers will eventually hold true and the gambler's fallacy is precisely that -- a fallacy.