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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/12 23:44:49
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ? Big Issue article on page 3
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17274186
Warhammer 40,000 - set in a science fantasy universe - has just turned 25. Why are grown men still launching tabletop war?
You may have walked past one of the hundreds of Games Workshops on the High Street. You may even have wandered in, especially if you are a teenage boy or the parent of one.
If you know your Necrons (virtually invincible soulless metal warriors) from your Dark Eldar (sadistic elfin pirates), the chances are you are one of the dedicated tribe who have signed up to what fans call The Hobby.
Most days of the week, on table tops in "hobby centre" shops, in office lunchrooms, and bedrooms, players gather around home-constructed battle fields with miniature ruins and petrified forests. They assemble and paint small model fighters from a chosen army (several to collect) and using dice, tape measures and special rule books, battle rival militia in a fictional science fiction universe set in the 41st Millennium, called Warhammer 40,000.
Launched 25 years ago, 40K was so named to distinguish it from traditional fantasy Warhammer of elves and vampires. Both lines, together with a Lord of the Rings brand, continue to attract hundreds of thousands of new fans in Britain and across the world - 70% of sales are abroad.
The appeal is in collecting, assembling and painting the models, for play, which are manufactured in Nottingham (and Memphis, Tennessee) and sold through the Games Workshops chain and by mail order. Blood, torn flesh, grimacing skulls and very large guns and tanks feature prominently in the detailed artwork.
Despite the competition from online or console-based gaming, Warhammer continues to thrive, with successful spin-off novels set in the 40K universe. How many other British companies, for example, could report a 40% rise in their latest half-year pre-tax profits?
It's like why theatre remains popular in the age of cinema," says 32-year-old Andrew Ruddick from Cambridge, explaining its enduring appeal. He describes himself as a "relapsed" Warhammer gamer, slipping back into it in his 20s with friends. "There's an intimacy. With tabletop gaming you are there."
Several hundred such gamers gather regularly at Games Workshop's Hall of Fame, next to its Nottingham factory, for tournaments. Most, but certainly not all, are male.
They play on teams with names like Alfa Geek, Purple Pain and I See Lead People. Heavy rule books or codices (all published by GW) are consulted intently. Templates and tape measures are used to confirm terrain advanced and numbers of casualties. Occasionally a whoop of victory goes up from a table.
Kathryn Turner, 13, is playing a doubles match with her father Stephen against two strapping 30-something blokes. The poker-face calm with which she deploys her Tyranids (world-devouring aliens) is impressive.
"It's fun and I like spending this time with my dad," she says. Her mother Sue is one of the crop of self-confessed Warhammer Widows who spend all day in the cafe. Kathryn admits to sometimes wearing pink on the first day to psych out the male opponents. "I'm moving on to play with Sisters of Battle next," she says - it's an army of fanatical warrior nuns with flamethrowers.
The whole aesthetic is, as Andrew Ruddick puts it "very masculine". But the appeal is its epic scale, says Warhammer fan and Marvel X-Men comic writer, Kieron Gillen. "It's a hilariously OTT maximalist universe at an operatic pitch. There are some people who think less is more. Warhammer, conversely, believes that more is always more."
Foot-high model Titans can be brought out for particular battles. "Warhammer gone nuts," as my 12-year-old son puts it.
Gillen contrasts Warhammer 40K to role-playing fantasy gaming like the online World of Warcraft (the modern equivalent of Dungeons and Dragons). "In Warcraft it's made so there are no bad guys. In Warhammer there are no good guys. They're all bad. It's a universe that's simultaneously nihilistic and joyous. It's incredibly British in that way."
Gary Chalk, a 59-year-old fantasy game creator and illustrator, knows all about its Britishness. He used to design Warhammer and Warhammer 40K games in the 1980s and 90s. His trademark wit is evident in Bloodbath at Orc's Drift (an elvish version of the Michael Caine film Zulu) and a naval ship battle he called "All the Dwarves Love a Sailor". Still an enthusiastic table-top gamer, he does, however, believe Games Workshop uses its monopoly on the products to target and exploit increasingly younger fans. The prices for essential models, paints and books are "eyewatering", he says.
"They are not selling a hobby. They are selling a craze."
Several players say they feel exploited. "You need at least £200 just to set up a half-decent legal army for a game, and if you want a board and scenery to go to play with friends you're looking at least £200 on top of that," says Craig Lowdon, 25, of Crewe.
Games Workshop's executives say they don't do media interviews, preferring to focus on their hobbyists. But CEO Mark Wells e-mails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes.
And Chalk claims the game is now less interesting. "The original rules were about fantasy combat and creating character. Now the rules only work within their imaginary world, with their figures and it cuts out all the other influences."
But its legion of fans, including older fans, see a timeless appeal.
"[There's] the satisfaction of looking at ranks of badly-daubed Skaven (man-sized anthropomorphic rats) and knowing they're yours and you made them in a real way," says Kieron Gillen.
"It's absolutely the part of the brain that made other generations make model trains."
But CEO Mark Wells e-mails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes
take that internet !
Warhammer fan and Marvel X-Men comic writer, Kieron Gillen.
I guess that's another sortof celebrity yes ..?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/13 14:52:46
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/12 23:58:01
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Scouting Shadow Warrior
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Gee whiz, just a bit condescending. I'd like to see the backlash if they printed something similar about sports fans. "Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"
I'll gladly compare the price of an army to a season ticket for a pro football or soccer team. Unlike the season ticket, the army can last years. (Not that I don't enjoy going to the occasional game, but...)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:00:15
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Big Fat Gospel of Menoth
The other side of the internet
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That does it. Mark Wells convinced me to buy the $55 minimum ATV of stuff that's required at GW stores.
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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
RAGE
Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:07:57
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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But CEO Mark Wells e-mails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes.
I take it he means their nature of public company... Why that sounds perfectly natural if you put it that way, does it not ?
Jeep wrote:"Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"
Can't agree enough
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:12:26
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Never mind...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 00:12:56
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:15:47
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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Jeep wrote:Gee whiz, just a bit condescending. I'd like to see the backlash if they printed something similar about sports fans. "Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"
I'll gladly compare the price of an army to a season ticket for a pro football or soccer team. Unlike the season ticket, the army can last years. (Not that I don't enjoy going to the occasional game, but...)
Yeah completely agree with this.
Also it's infinitely better than sitting on your ass playing world of warcraft all day. At least with 40k there is a huge social side to it and constructing/painting models takes real skill and is quite a healthy passtime.
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Thousand Sons CSM and Tzeentch Daemons : 2000pts
Imperial Guard Mixed Regiment: 2500pts
Deathwing/Ravenwing 2000pts (WIP)
Space Wolves: 1000pts (WIP)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:18:47
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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"Selling you a craze"
Um a craze doesnt last for 25 years.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:27:52
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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I can't wait for her next article:
"Why are grown women obsessed with watching total strangers buy real estate and bake cup cakes"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:29:27
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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CT GAMER wrote:I can't wait for her next article:
"Why are grown women obsessed with watching total strangers buy real estate and bake cup cakes"
The world may never know.
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text removed by Moderation team. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:30:18
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Seems Wells is at odds with Tom “We’ll sell them at whatever price we want!” Kirby.
But yeah, the ‘why are grown men’ thing is a bit silly. Average gamer (console/ PC) is early 30’s, and we don’t see anything like “Why are grown men still playing with Mario!”.
It’s a hobby, and everyone needs a hobby. Nothing all that special about it.
Although, when the article called it ‘The Hobby’, I have to say a shiver ran down my spine. GW are not ‘The Hobby’. They are part of the hobby, but not it in and of itself (even if they like to pretend they are). Automatically Appended Next Post: CT GAMER wrote:I can't wait for her next article:
"Why are grown women obsessed with watching total strangers buy real estate and bake cup cakes"
And what's with all the shoes!!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 00:31:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 00:33:30
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Brainless Servitor
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Jeep wrote:Gee whiz, just a bit condescending. I'd like to see the backlash if they printed something similar about sports fans. "Why are grown men watching people chase a ball up and down a field?"
"They" write pieces like that all the time. Well, sometimes at least. I've not seen any real backlash yet, unless you count internet comments.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 01:03:15
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Snivelling Workbot
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"Dark Eldars on left (photos by Jordan Louis); Neocrons on right (photos by AdmGR and Victor Yoon)"
Spelling / grammar errors and condescending nature to a hobby that is quite a bit older than 25 years (wargames and painting model soldiers have been about for at least a century).
I expect more from the BBC.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 01:19:45
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Well, it's either 40K or stuffing dollar bills down scantilly clad late-teen/early-twenty aged girls underwear in a darkened room with smells that can put gamer-funk to shame.
And being married, She Who Must Be Obeyed prefers the former hobby to the later.
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Life isn't fair. But wouldn't it be worse if Life were fair, and all of the really terrible things that happen to us were because we deserved them?
M. Cole.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 01:37:36
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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"Why are grown men still launching virtual war with people thousands of miles across the globe?"
"Why are grown men still watching muscular men grapple in spandex?"
"Why do grown men still collect poseable action figures?"
This article really could not be more condescending, whilst totally missing the point of why people play Warhammer 40,000.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 01:58:11
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Widowmaker
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2012- stopped caring
Nova Open 2011- Orks 8th Seed---(I see a trend)
Adepticon 2011- Mike H. Orks 8th Seed (This was the WTF list of the Final 16)
Adepticon 2011- Combat Patrol Best General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 02:58:51
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Wow, sensitive much? The article was quite informative if you were a non-gamer, and not at all condescending.
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"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 02:59:22
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms
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I think every girl gamer should complain. Why did they not get to be included in this!? "Why do grown men and women have a hobby other than cooking, cleaning and the BBC?"
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 02:59:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 03:13:31
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Why are grown women spending hundreds of dollars of their husband's money buying Frosty the Snowman sweaters and Leopard print handbags off the Home Shopping Network? The world may never know...
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Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 03:17:24
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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The way the article started off was a little odd. Can't they just realize that different people enjoy different things?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 03:28:57
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Stalwart Space Marine
in a fire... AAAAAAAHHH!!$*five@!!
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Definitely a condescending news report there.
40k is an inherently face to face social hobby. That makes it a lot less nerdy than WoW or the Xbox Live bro's.
Also I hate sports and find it incredibly boring to sit through pretty much any athletic competition so I like the comparison to ticket prices. Really its not bad in comparison to most hobbies/past-times as far as expense.
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2,801p
'ardboy Nob and his 'ardboyz
vs 2-3
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 04:05:49
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
Cruising in my CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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I really hate condescending writers like this guy. I mean really, if you're going to put the hate on someone, do it to someone with no social life (like maybe online journalists). Albeit 40k isn't the hippest thing in the world, but at least we aren't paying money to watch tall dark strangers chase an inflated dead animal around a fenced in area. I enjoy what I do, and I don't know any other wargamer that dislikes doing whatever they do. Word.
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I guarantee you that I'm not really as smart as the test says:
 Test Your IQ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 04:45:38
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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Several players say they feel exploited. "You need at least £200 just to set up a half-decent legal army for a game, and if you want a board and scenery to go to play with friends you're looking at least £200 on top of that," says Craig Lowdon, 25, of Crewe.
Isn't an Xbox 360 nearly £200 in England? And you don't have
to buy the damn table from GW. I mean, the hobby is expensive,
but it doesn't have to be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 05:19:25
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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I was just about to post this, good thing I checked to see if S8n had beaten me to the punch as usual. I think it's funny that prices are so bad even the BBC had to comment on it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 07:25:43
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
UK
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reds8n wrote:
Warhammer fan and Marvel X-Men comic writer, Kieron Gillen.
I guess that's another sortof celebrity yes ..?
I knew that name sounded familiar! He used to work for PC Gamer UK. (Apologies if that's obvious to everyone else)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 08:00:01
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Well that was something and nothing.
I didnt find it in anyway condescending, I was clearly meant as an informative "fluff" piece, written by the looks of it by a mum/dad journo with a passing knowledge.
I'd say nice find red but it's already on the top ten read list  . That could be a good thing if it promoted more indepth article. I would like to see messers Kirby and Wells continue their no media routine if Robert Preston wanted a word.
I guess that the fact that it is already trending means the nerdsharks know there's blood in the water. Just as well they don't have the "your comments" bit on this one. I can only imagine how busy the BBC Mods would be with that one!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 08:02:15
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 08:04:46
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Armored Iron Breaker
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Good read, but I don't get it.
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Banished, from my own homeland. And now you dare enter my realm?... you are not prepared.
dogma wrote:Did she at least have a nice rack? Love it!
Play Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarfs, Brets and British FoW (Canadian Rifle and Armoured)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 08:09:01
Subject: Re:Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought
Wollongong, Australia
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Wow that is a good read but kinda insulting towards me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 08:52:05
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings
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There are some very hater comments in the comment section of that article..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 08:55:02
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Some people take the slightest of things as personal insults huh.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/13 08:59:52
Subject: Why are grown men still launching tabletop war ?
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
UK
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thenoobbomb wrote:There are some very hater comments in the comment section of that article..
Why wouldn't there be? Haters gonna hate on the internet even more than RL, dude.
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