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Navigator





Massachusetts

Hello Dakka - I am a long time Warmahordes player that is just starting out with Legion. In the past I have played Cryx (main army)/Menoth/Skorne. That being said, two casters really peaked my interest when looking at the Legions book; Bethayne and Abby. I just picked up Bethayne and could use some advice as to how to kit out my initial list/purchases.

I can see the synergy with Bethayne and Hex Hunters + Bayal/Blackfrost shard, but what else should I be looking at adding? Proteus intrigues me with all of it's drag mechanics for I will be coming from playing Scaverous rather regularly. However, I am not sure if it's a good fit for Bethayne (probably will be for Abby though). Any thoughts/suggestions would be helpful and thanks ahead of time.

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye....then you have an eye to play with!

w/t/l
BA: 23/2/1
IG: 14/2/2
Salamanders: 21/4/3
Chaos: 5/0/4
SoB: 11/3/3 
   
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Made in us
Deacon




Southern California

First, these are just my opinions and take from them what you will.

If you are just starting Legion, I'd highly recommend you stay away from Proteus for now. He can shine with a few casters and with certain builds, but overall he's outdone by many of our other options.

Here are a few things to note about legion in general:

Shredders - Get them. 2 Pts for Tenacity and they can kill solos like a Boss. Great utility piece, cheap, and the animus is easy to spam with most caster. They are a faction defining model.

Ravagore - It took me a while to understand how fantastic these beasties really are. Rat 5 is not impressive its true, but with AOEs you don't have to be accurate, and with 14" range, more often than not you can aim meaning they are RAT 7 a good portion of the time, and can boost meaning on average they can aim to hit DEF 17... Not too shabby. Plus you can set things on fire even if you miss, they block lanes with scather templates.

Scytheans - Pure melee monsters. They are fantastic vs. anything they get in melee with and are a major threat to heavies due to their chain attack. Some casters can put these guys over the top and reach is golden. One of our longest natural threat ranges 11".

Shepherds - 1 pt solos who can heal, fury manage, and extend forcing ranges... Need I say more?

Forsaken - 2 Pt solos who can manage fury from a safe distance, and be a threat many. More offensive uses, but still very good.

Ok, so the rest you can figure out on your own. We have some great infintry actually which many underestimate. The problem is they are squishy little buggers, so they are very caster dependent.

Bethayne & Belphagor:
I've ran her a number of times and I love her a great deal, but I have noticed she has inherent weakneses. The girls got game, and a built in arc node is nothing to shake a stick at. Obviously you want to get the most out of her feat, but I feel its a trap to go full tilt and just spam HH. I do feel BFS has a spot in her list as do HH and Bayal.

Here is how I put my list together: She has a number of great spells, and I enjoy utilizing most of them, so here is how I load her out.

My 50pt List:
Bethayne & Belphagor +3
Scythean 9 - Carnivore target (accuracy to get chain attack off, hvy beater)
Ravagore 10 - Ranged Threat (Blood thorn is fun sometimes, but not really necessary)
Shredder 2 - Tenacity/Transfer Battery
Full Hex Hunters + Bayal 11 - Ashen Veil Target (Feat turn Dmg dealers)
Full Legionnaires (Tarpit Screen)
Spawning Vessel 3 - (Tarpit)
Black Frost Shard 5 - (Feat turn, Kiss of lylyss, Ice cage)
X2 Spell Martyrs 2 (Erruption of Spines during feat turn, gallows)
X2 Deathstalkers 4 (Ranged Threat)
Shepherd 1 (Ravagore's fury buddy)

The way I play this list is to jam with the legos and vessel. Its ok that they are slow because you can use that time to put some erruptions into their lines and clear out some infintry along with the deathstalkers and Ravagore. By the time they reach the tarpit, they'll have been softened up. When they close, Shredder kills support solos, Scythean goes for the heavy threats and feat turn kills everything with speedy/stealthy hex hunters. Use BFS with them for high DEF/ARM targets (Such as death jack).

She's very good at clearing infintry, but many of her spells are LIVING MODEL ONLY, so I feel Cryx gives her some issues. Incorporeal shouldn't be an issue with this list which is nice, and I've had the HH feat turn clear 4 jacks with the help of BFS, and this included Deathjack. Gallows is such a great spell, but it's situational. Pow 13 can kill a caster, but dragging them out of safety, or within charging range of a Scythean or Bayal or a fully loaded Forsaken while they are camping focus... Erruption of spines is also sooooo good, because if you hit the first target, it auto hits the rest (high def model killer). Having trouble with that Kayazy Assassin high DEF deathstar? Throw a lego into them, cast erruption of spines in his back arc, and watch them fall over lol. Also, don't forget she can meld with Belphagor and be a much tougher target. This is a great idea late game, unless you need the fury he can generate, or he is significantly damaged.

I hope this is helpful. For Abby, I'd highly recommend using her Tier. Its pretty fantastic. It's not the only way to play her, but it is an easy list to build and the benefits are pretty amazing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 19:40:32


"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed." -The Dark Tower Series - The Gunslinger

Legion of Everblight: 351 pts
Minions 128 pts
Mercs: 4 pts  
   
Made in us
Navigator





Massachusetts

Thank you Hivemind, this is incredibly helpful. At the moment I am in the process of just "De-Cryxing" myself and thinking outside the box. So, your breakdown of each unit's role in the grand scheme really drives each units usefulness home.

I only have three questions with what you suggest and I would appreciate your opinion.

1. Warspears: Useful replacement for legionnaires? Only reason I ask is that I acquired a number of them from a trade and I can see them as another semi-range threat. Not to mention they can block trample lanes.

2. Spawning Vessel: I will admit that I did not spend a lot of time looking at this unit. What does it bring to the list?

3. Reindeer Archer Solo (I apologize, but I forgot her name): I have heard people at my FLGS rave about how "awesome" she is and that she can be included in most lists. Do you get more utility out of 2x deathstalkers over her?

Thanks again!

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye....then you have an eye to play with!

w/t/l
BA: 23/2/1
IG: 14/2/2
Salamanders: 21/4/3
Chaos: 5/0/4
SoB: 11/3/3 
   
Made in us
Deacon




Southern California

Nine_breaker wrote:Thank you Hivemind, this is incredibly helpful. At the moment I am in the process of just "De-Cryxing" myself and thinking outside the box. So, your breakdown of each unit's role in the grand scheme really drives each units usefulness home.

I only have three questions with what you suggest and I would appreciate your opinion.

1. Warspears: Useful replacement for legionnaires? Only reason I ask is that I acquired a number of them from a trade and I can see them as another semi-range threat. Not to mention they can block trample lanes.

2. Spawning Vessel: I will admit that I did not spend a lot of time looking at this unit. What does it bring to the list?

3. Reindeer Archer Solo (I apologize, but I forgot her name): I have heard people at my FLGS rave about how "awesome" she is and that she can be included in most lists. Do you get more utility out of 2x deathstalkers over her?

Thanks again!


Not a problem. It was hard for me to get a grip on what everything did and what role it provides to a list. Once you get it down, its easier to put lists together that are more cohesive and work together to specific goals.

1. Warspears/Warmongers - There is an endless debate on which is better and why. I feel they are basically both equal but perform differently and each will mish with your playstyle in a different way. Warspears are great because they can throw on their way in and have a ranged threat, albeit a short distance. Warmongers have beserker so they can chomp through infintry, and with the Warchief you can effectively end your beserker with blood drinker to prevent killing each other which is fantastic. The War chief can make either of them MAT 9, which is silly good.

Problems: They are multi-wound/expensive infintry which should indicate Tarpit with decent dmg output, but these guys are a bit on the squishy side for their point cost. They are medium bases so its hard to hide them (there are pros and cons to medium bases, ie can't be trampled, blocks LOS to pThagrosh etc.) which means that ranged threats can soften them up quite a bit. I think the biggest problem with them is that Gatormen exist. They have better armor, better abilities and vs. living models are flat out better. Warmongers/spears are faction models so they benefit from our spells and feats more, but the Gators are more independent and don't really need them. They tarpit much better, and again, equal if not outdo the dmg output of either against living models.

Opinion: I think they are well worth their points in certain lists. I have them with pThagrosh as a LOS blocker, and his shroud helps their survivability. Kallus enjoys them a great deal as well as he can give them a boost in ARM. I do not think they are a great replacement for Legos with most lists as they don't have as many bodies, can't tarpit quite as well, and generally are more damage focused rather than jamming units. They are good, give them a try, and if you like them better feel free to use what works for you. I love the models and also Rhyas' new Rearguard theme force loves them.

2. The Spawning Vessel - Ok, so when I first started I was wishy washy on this unit. It has grown on me a great deal but it isn't without its flaws. It is basically a 2-3 pt tarpit utility piece. Things die, you are able to collect up to 3 corpse tokens measured from a range from the pot itself (range of corpse collection is extended with more acolytes) and once you get three, during its activation it can spawn any of the three lesser warbeasts we possess within (not completely within) 3" of the pot. Its downside is that in a faction of quick beasts and fast paced action, its sloooooow. It can't run, and if you get a max unit for 3 pts, it'll be 6 acolytes and the pot. It'll move 1" per acolyte within 2" of the pot, so 6" a turn at max. So it'll slog up the field slowly collecting corpse tokens and throwing out little terrors.

Its Uses - It is a super cheap tarpit as it can soak damage or shots from the enemy, and as a player thats good. The 6 acolytes die, and the pot collects tokens. The best use of this unit, is to stay behind your screen of fodder (Legionairres typically, lots of cheap bodies to get in the way), and spawn lessers. The most I've gotten in one game is 3 lessers, IE 6 pts in beasts on top of a pot, plus 6 acolytes all for 3 pts! I doubled my pt value. Also, since it spawns lessers within 3" (and not completely within 3"), you can get unique angles on solos and charge lanes to key targets that a shredder, harrier or a stinger can charge and be thrown away without much regard hopefully killing it, but at the very least, engaging and helping jam the opponent. Stingers have poison so pop them from the pot, charge, Pow 10 + 4 dice of dmg is no joke vs. living models. Shredders can go rabid with 3 die on two hits, and generally won't have to force to charge due to increased movement (Rabid auto boosted att/dmg, +2 spd, pathfinder add in that the pot gives you another 3-4ish inches and without charging that is a 12" threat from the pot's current location without charging! Means you can buy additional attack or cast tenacity). Harriers are a great target for the pot as they have flight, spd 7 and can fly over targets to get engaged, and if its Eirys or any other high DEF target, use its animus on the way in to auto hit! Again, with a flight of 7 plus the pots spawning range, you can use its animus, auto hit and boost dmg.

Opinion: Pot is pure win, there are a few tricks the enemy can do to relieve themselves of its prescence, like shoot the pot and remove the entire squad etc., but again, for 3 pts, if they are wasting resources on it, then its' already a win.

3. Annyssa Ryvaal/Deathstalkers - These two are very similar in application, and if I have the pts I include both but it really depends on what you want from them, and who your opponent is. Annyssa is one of the greatest solos ever, as she has a nearly all round awesome package. She's spd 9 light cav, so she can move up 9" shoot 12" and then light cav back 5" lol. Super quick and has stealth at all times. In addition, she has a poisoned ranged weapon. so 3 dice of damage from range vs. living models (there's the catch. Vs. Cryx, jacks, undead, etc poison does nothing). She also has Prey, which means a bonus to hit/dmg and speed vs her prey target, which in itself can be used to herd the opponent's movements. For example, if she puts prey on Versh or Saxon, those models will do what they can to still perform but be outside her threat range, but her threat range is silly long, and she's a hell of a shot, and can kill her some solos. She's also got snap fire, so that means she can, in the mean time, kill single wound infintry like a Boss, and lay some hurt even on multiwound infintry. She's fantasitc, and even in lists where poison isn't added, she's still a great addition. She works really well with Raptors, as long as she is within LOS of them when they shoot, they get a +2 RAT buff which is silly good.

Deathstalkers - For the same 4 pts that Annyssa costs, you can field 2 deathstalkers and since they are so similar, it seems they are usually compared and contrasted to one another. Now instead of 1 stealthed large base, you get two independent stealthed small bases. Do not underestimate the power of split forces. You can get targets at different sides of the board at the same time. They have a 12" range, pathfinder, Spd 7 pow 10 bow. They do not have poison like Annyssa, so they will not hurt higher end targets, but, they do have sniper which means if they hit a target (RAT 8, probably will) they can forego rolling dmg and apply 1 pt of dmg to what they are shooting, on top of that, if their target is a warjack/beast, they can put a pt of dmg on that target and choose the branch it is applied to. I have taken a jack down to 1 box with my scythean and finished it off with a Sniper shot from a Deathstalker. Also, since they can basically hit infintry on below average rolls more often than not, single wound infintry die without a roll (this is very strong). They also have Snap Fire, so they can kill two models reliably per round EACH, and then with swift hunter, move 2" back, giving them a nice 14" distance between you and certain death. So 4 pts that can wipe nearly half an infintry squad out a turn reliably. Its no surprise you see them in a great number of lists, and are (IMHO) a cheap replacement for Striders+UA. Striders+UA are fantastic as well, and have hunter with the UA which is off the charts good, especially against pesky solos like Janissa Stonetide who hides behind that damnable wall of hers.

Opinion - Both are solid and a great addition. They both provide different strengths and threats on the board, and I rarely make a list without one of them. Since I play Cryx a lot lately, I've been fielding duel Stalkers in lieu of Annyssa and feel they perform better for me in clearing lanes and sweeping some thralls off the board.

Sorry if this is a little long winded. I hope this helps, and if there are any other units you want to know about let me know

"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed." -The Dark Tower Series - The Gunslinger

Legion of Everblight: 351 pts
Minions 128 pts
Mercs: 4 pts  
   
 
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