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Hi,

Does anyone else feel that old Necron fluff and theme was cooler? I mean, I don't mind the new stuff and I'm glad the got some depth. But, I always enjoyed the old horrible feel that these mysterious engines of death had. I think I like the harvesting of the galaxy more.

Who else feels this way?

Man it is bad. So so bad. As bad as thunderwolves, or space wolves generally. When I read aboth them in WHite Dwarf I was thoroughly depressed, especially in the pre battle report snippet of fiction where the necron appears and is jocular and scheming. So lame.

Its taken all the silent menace away and made them a joke. Another army ruined. Though i admit, gamewise, they did need updating and some new units. At least gamers can still imagine they are as they always were, i suppose.

I kind of pretend they are still harvesters of all organic life. It was better that way. I mean I don't have the fluff, but its just so less cool.

I like the new fluff. I admit, I'm not a Newcron player, but if I had limitless disposable income, I think the Tomb Kings in Spaaaaace would probably be my first choice for a new army. I certainly feel more love for them than I do Nids or any flavor of Eldar...

I think the new fluff gives them personality that they were lacking. Yes, they were implacable harvesters of organic life... but isn't that what the Nids are? Besides, if Necrons are all soulless, emotionless killing machines... why did they have so many different paint jobs? Why did the armies reflect a personality and collective individuality (ie; a warband or army) that was totally lacking in their fluff? If they had no personality, why were some of them red? Or blue? Or gold?

You can still play your Necrons as Terminators in Spaaaaace, since the Newcron Codex mentions that segment of the race that is pretty much soulless killing machines (ie, classic Necrons)... just say your army is part of that faction. Honestly, I don't think the Newcrons are as apocalyptically bad as some of the things Matt Ward has done.

New fluff isn't terrible. It's different. It adds some depth where I feel there should have remained mystery, but also adds some character to it all. Do I love all of it? No. Is it still acceptable? Yes

yeah it really dose add a new atmosphere to them they have reason. I mean yeah mysterious and scary are great and all but i mean this is so much depth and they had to change some things so they could add the new units i perosnally like the new fluff

Hmm, isn't the point that they are implacable killers? And not supposed to have a personality? Rather than tomb kings in space its more like skavens in space, surely? Someone shoulda told Ciaphas Cain what they are really like. He coulda just charmed em like he does everyone else.

Rank and file warriors are still emotionless, surely?

squidhills wrote:You can still play your Necrons as Terminators in Spaaaaace, since the Newcron Codex mentions that segment of the race that is pretty much soulless killing machines (ie, classic Necrons)... just say your army is part of that faction.

/Thread.

Pretty much the irrefutable counter-argument to every cry of "Necrons are supposed to be _____".

yeah but they really lost the feel they once had. Not saying the new is bad, i just liked the old better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
it feels almost like gw copped out of coming up with some original fluff

That's an interesting statement to make, considering that the original Necron fluff was completely unoriginal in every single way. It was basically just a rip-off of every "cosmic horror" story ever.

Personally, I love the new Necron fluff. The old stuff did nothing for me, and they were easily my least favorite faction. The new material is twisted, and I love the differentiation between their factions and leaders. It makes them less predictable and far more interesting to me.

The old 'crons were more of a plot device than a faction, from a fluff standpoint. Something thrown in so that Ciaphas Cain can throw out his favorite chapter closer of, "If I only knew what the consequences of (going on that patrol|agreeing to stay in that building|accepting that mission) would be, I would have immediately (taken the first shuttle back to the flagship|run screaming for my Salamander|found a nice safe hole to hide in) and to the warp with my reputation."

The new Necrons are far more versitile. Given that recent fluff includes carving names on the hearts of demon princes? I'll take what I can get.

The old fluff had no depth or context. And they had an chance to make the necrons something different. But, they failed to capitalize on it IMO

What is the new fluff exactly? They are a race of people who were turned into machines?

I had thought it was a bit of a shocker that the C'tan gods are no longer the masters of the material world. But some of the new fluff states that they are no longer the silent warrior slaves of old. by fighting with a strict code of honor when fighting other races. but it is quite sad on how there are no longer any Praiahs in the new necron codex. I do like the idea of how they have gone deeper into explaining the necron race. I did read some where that the Silent King is trying to find a way to restore the Necron people back to the way they were. I would like to see a movie based on the rise and fall of the Necrons.

DrimGark wrote: Something thrown in so that Ciaphas Cain can throw out his favorite chapter closer of, "If I only knew what the consequences of (going on that patrol|agreeing to stay in that building|accepting that mission) would be, I would have immediately (taken the first shuttle back to the flagship|run screaming for my Salamander|found a nice safe hole to hide in) and to the warp with my reputation."

You know, that's pretty much the reason why I couldn't make it past the halfway point of the second CC book. Every story is basically the same, with a different enemy faction rotated around to fill the blanks. So repetitive.

I love the Cain stories though. Sure they are repititive but its about the only character they gave any depth too. It's always, " I am heman macho McSuper Awersome, I battle greater daemons in the warp and I return once in a while and say, sup bro's to my fellow SuperAwesome Super Pals."

For me, the jury's still out on it.

In some instances, I love it; the army has so much more character than before and it is so much easier to personalise and I think, adds a new dimension to the game.

However, sometimes I miss the idea of a race of souless autonomaton seeking to harvest the galaxy; it was the only thing in the Warhammer universe that I was truly taken-aback by in Grimdark terms.

Still, a new codex is a new codex; I won't complain if GW continues to update their codicies, ruleswise, to the standards of Grey Knights and Necrons!

Iranna,

I agree, Necrons were very grim dark and now they are not. I think that 40K in general is moving away from grimdark. Hell, fantasy is more grim!

I used cain as an example of where the necrons appear in their old guise - not to say the cain books are awesome. Are the iron men in the early gaunt book not necrons too? Has anyone else read that fiction in white dwarf i mentioned earlier? Is that really how people prefer their necrons?

The Iron Men weren't necrons, I'm pretty sure they're apart of an STC that the Imperium made before banning the use of advanced AI constructs.

Fair enough. Memory fails. Guess they were just scary cos they were like mindless manshaped killing machines.

Fist necrons leave Blood Angels alive. Next the swarmlord will taunt Calgar calling him a daddy's boy, then chaos will sign treaties to leave the imperium alone and assassins will fall in love with farseers.

I hate how tame the newcrons are. They're halfway decent. They're human. They aren't alien anymore. The characters don't have depth. You can sum each one up in a short sentence. This guy is the techie, tweaking out his crons. This guy is a hoarder, collecting the universe one piece at a time. That's about as in depth as they got. It's not a facet of their personality, it is their personality.

While you can describe other characters similarly, you would be missing out on key pieces. For instance Chaplain Cassius hates nids. That sums him up, but it's being disingenuous. Cassius believes nids are the biggest heretical threat because they invaded Ultramar and he's gathering warriors who have fought nids to counter them. There is a story there. There is conflict. There is personality. There is a purpose. Yarrick is the toughest commisar, versus: Yarrick is the only human Ghaz, the ork prophet, thinks is worth fighting after Yarrick took the arm from one of his nobs as his own. Yarrick hunts Ghaz for the atrocities he committed on Armageddon. Again, story, conflict, personality, purpose. Necron characters lack these. They're a bag of saltines.

Axlbush wrote:What is the new fluff exactly? They are a race of people who were turned into machines?

Ok, just so I understand correctly, you post this as the second reply in this thread....

Man it is bad. So so bad. As bad as thunderwolves, or space wolves generally. When I read aboth them in WHite Dwarf I was thoroughly depressed, especially in the pre battle report snippet of fiction where the necron appears and is jocular and scheming. So lame.

Its taken all the silent menace away and made them a joke. Another army ruined. Though i admit, gamewise, they did need updating and some new units. At least gamers can still imagine they are as they always were, i suppose.

....And you haven't even read the new fluff? By the way, they were always a race of people who got turned into machines, that's not new.


Honestly, I don't understand why people hate the new fluff so much. The Old Necrons barely did anything, it was fluff and Codex: C'tan an servants. The new dex gives a full personality to the Necrons, and allows you to play them how you feel. It also leaves pretty of room for the Soulless harvesting machines, or a group that still worships the C'tan. We already have our emotionless unfeeling harvester of all life (Tyranids)

So now, we have options that can fit every type of fluffstyle, and you can fluff your army out however you want. We've got the Necrons actually doing stuff, and going out an conquering worlds now. Personally, for me the new fluff is significantly better. The only gripe I have is the retcon of the inertia-less drives.


EDIT:

While you can describe other characters similarly, you would be missing out on key pieces. For instance Chaplain Cassius hates nids. That sums him up, but it's being disingenuous. Cassius believes nids are the biggest heretical threat because they invaded Ultramar and he's gathering warriors who have fought nids to counter them. There is a story there. There is conflict. There is personality. There is a purpose. Yarrick is the toughest commisar, versus: Yarrick is the only human Ghaz, the ork prophet, thinks is worth fighting after Yarrick took the arm from one of his nobs as his own. Yarrick hunts Ghaz for the atrocities he committed on Armageddon. Again, story, conflict, personality, purpose. Necron characters lack these. They're a bag of saltines.

You are oversimplifying the Necron Characters, to try to prove your point. It's being disingenuous they way you are portraying them.


For instance, for Trazyn, It's a lot more than "Collecting" the Galaxy one part at a time. He clearly enjoys History, and want's to preserve it, with tastes that range from all over the galaxy. He also seems to have a unique background during the HH, since he calls Gulliman, an "Old Friend" in his conversation with Sicarus, while this could just be him taunting him, that still shows personality. His chat with Valeria also shows he has a mischievous side, with his bit of the Hyperstone maze.

Here, I'm going to take your first few sentences, and switch a bit around. Watch the magic.

While you can describe other characters similarly, you would be missing out on key pieces. For instance the Silent King hates nids. That sums him up, but it's being disingenuous. The Silent king believes nids are the biggest threat to his people's apotheosis because they invaded the galaxy. He's gathering warriors to counter them. There is a story there. There is conflict. There is personality. There is a purpose.

See? I can do that too, for every Necron character.

I like both of the old and new fluff.

The old fluff was more grimdark, what with the 'havest life force to feed the moody gakkers who robotified us'. I didn't get that myself though. I mean basic guns pulling the life energy out of the targets so that they fell apart atom by atom dosen't ring as very 'harvesty'. I could buy the harvest if it was a CQB/assault army but it's not

New fluff is they were great, had a nap, woke up to find a bunch of 8 foot tall fat gits on their land, so they go on a rampage to reunite their empire. Also, the crons ruling the C'tan sounds more 'amazing technology' than last time's fluff, now it's like ''We've got stuff that can shatter gods, what have you got?''

I like them both but preffer the new fluff to the old. New fluff is an army of fragile-ish guys backed up by some big guns. Old fluff was 'we can stand back up so we don't need fire support'
but the WBB was disallowed by everything that killed them easily

I like the new fluff, however I ALSO liked the old fluff, the feeling of an ancient empire returning from its slumber to find a galaxy of usurpers is interesting, and somewhat tragic in a way. The variety of units is excellent, allowing numerous different styles of play.
I really liked the fluff regarding the war in heaven, the Silent king getting tricked by the C'tan and the like, it allows me at least to somewhat empathize with these now "Lawfully Evil" machines.

The fluff also allows more description of wtf is going on with the destroyers, flayed ones, and allows for the fielding of an army of mindless robots, however the warriors still have that trait, being incapable of real "thought" just of following orders.

Sasori wrote:
For instance, for Trazyn, It's a lot more than "Collecting" the Galaxy one part at a time. He clearly enjoys History, and want's to preserve it, with tastes that range from all over the galaxy. He also seems to have a unique background during the HH, since he calls Gulliman, an "Old Friend" in his conversation with Sicarus, while this could just be him taunting him, that still shows personality.

That's rather awesome, in what book/codex is this in?

That also pretty much answers my question of whether Trazyn was up and about for the 60+million years. I mean I knew if he had slept then he would have had to have at least been awake for 20,000 years or so to grab a Thunder warrior(or something to that effect) but to keep an active Tomb World for 60 million years is rather cool.

I based my comments on the white dwarf articles introducing them, as i said. Have a look at that bit you've actually just quoted from me. Erm, they're bad. Check. I read about them in WD. Check. I don't like that they have personalities now. Check.

That was enough fluff to form an opinion. I was just asking for clarification.

And I don't think anyones saying they didn't need updating. Quite the opposite. You could quote me on it! Its more a debate about them having personalities now.

I think it works like this

If you like the old fluff, you dont like the new fluff
If you did not like the old fluff, you like the new fluff

I hated the old fluff. I think the new fluff is interesting.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Sasori wrote:
For instance, for Trazyn, It's a lot more than "Collecting" the Galaxy one part at a time. He clearly enjoys History, and want's to preserve it, with tastes that range from all over the galaxy. He also seems to have a unique background during the HH, since he calls Gulliman, an "Old Friend" in his conversation with Sicarus, while this could just be him taunting him, that still shows personality.

That's rather awesome, in what book/codex is this in?

That also pretty much answers my question of whether Trazyn was up and about for the 60+million years. I mean I knew if he had slept then he would have had to have at least been awake for 20,000 years or so to grab a Thunder warrior(or something to that effect) but to keep an active Tomb World for 60 million years is rather cool.

It's in the WD when they were released.

I based my comments on the white dwarf articles introducing them, as i said. Have a look at that bit you've actually just quoted from me. Erm, they're bad. Check. I read about them in WD. Check. I don't like that they have personalities now. Check.

That was enough fluff to form an opinion. I was just asking for clarification.

And I don't think anyones saying they didn't need updating. Quite the opposite. You could quote me on it! Its more a debate about them having personalities now.

Why would you form an opinion, when you haven't even read the majority of the fluff? You formed an opinion from a small bit of a magazine, without reading the 60+ pages of source material.