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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/19 21:49:42
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v1.0 - all units are in!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Updated as of 3/30/12 with all planned units included - still needs special characters!
Yes, it's another Lost and the Damned Codex, but hopefully one that's worth a look, because it's a 3-for-1 sale: Planetary Defense Forces (and Arbites!), Chaos renegades, and Genestealer cults all in one place. Three factions: Imperial, Traitor, and Xenos, all sharing one list. I took advantage of the large amount of overlap between the most common defenders of Imperial planets (the Planetary Defense Force) and their most common adversaries (cults and rebellions, both the Chaos and Genestealer variety) and tried to make one codex to cover them all.
The hardest part has been fleshing out what is by definition a relatively weak group of units, and making them competitive and fun without requiring a thousand models on the board. So there's a lot of emphasis on things like off-table support, flexibility in choosing special rules to suit the opponent (allowing you to optimize weaker units for the task at hand), deployment shenanigans, etc etc.
This is still a beta version, I've only played through a few battles with some friends, so I need A LOT of feedback!
Also I'd like to thank JustDave and his Chaos Marine Codex for a lot of inspiration on the layout (rule-wise AND aesthetically) of the codex.
Here's a list of all the units in the codex (or planned for inclusion) so far:
HQ
- PDF Company Command Squad - w/ High-Born Officer
- Traitor Astartes Champion
- Demagogue
- Unsanctioned Psyker
- Broodlord (Unique)
- Arbites Judge w/ Sharpshooters option (new)
Elites
- Astartes (Unique)
- Arbites Shock Troops
- Lesser Daemons
- Purestrain Xenos (Genestealers)
- Insurgency (not a unit of troops, a bunch of options for off-table effects)
Troops
- Civilian Rabble (includes rules for Frateris Militia, Chaos Cultists, Brood Brothers, and Zombies)
- Mutants (includes rules for Mutant Gangs, Possessed, Xenos Hybrids)
- Arbites Enforcers (new)
Fast Attack
- Sappers
- Arbites Bikers (Unique)
- Local-made Scout Cars
- Mobile Reinforcements
- Purestrain Xenos Stalker (lone-wolf Genestealers behind your lines)
- Suicide Car Bomber (new)
Heavy Support
- Leman Russ (no squadrons, only battlecannon and demolisher versions, plus a Unique Arbites version)
- Local-made Light and Medium armor
- Adeptus Arbites Black Maria (new!)
- Artillery Observer (Unique)
| Filename |
CPH's Lost and the Damned Codex v1.0.pdf |
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This message was edited 21 times. Last update was at 2012/03/30 15:57:57
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/19 23:00:42
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A Combined PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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I feel like mutants with possession would have a tough time. The mutations are great, but the columns just makes it difficult to have a good build. You can make them fleet and poisonous, but they are still only I 1 and WS 1, you can give them an extra attack or a big WS and I boost, but they are still only strength 3, you can give them furious charge and fleet which is nice, but they are still only I 3 WS 2.
Also for the Artillery Observer I suggest a price increase, since currently one could get three for 285 points and toss 9 templates down on turn one. Also, IG has the Master of Ordinance who can only fire one per turn, if he doesn't move, he is attached to the command squad, doesn't get stealth, and his scatter is worse. For all that he still costs 30 points.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/20 00:07:55
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A Combined PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex
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Lord of the Fleet
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Interesting idea on having 3 in 1. I'll look over it
One of the first things I noticed though was the outdated Heavy Weapon Team rule. While I know people who are a little disgruntled with how 5th IG did it, for the sake of consistency I'd suggest doing it that way
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/20 03:15:51
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A Combined PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Buttons wrote:I feel like mutants with possession would have a tough time. The mutations are great, but the columns just makes it difficult to have a good build. You can make them fleet and poisonous, but they are still only I 1 and WS 1, you can give them an extra attack or a big WS and I boost, but they are still only strength 3, you can give them furious charge and fleet which is nice, but they are still only I 3 WS 2.
I set it up intentionally to help keep the Possessed somewhat balanced. My hope was that, even with a weak base statline, their mutations could be chosen based on your enemy or tactical situation at the start of each battle. The relatively high points cost reflects this flexibility. However if they really aren't going to be killy enough for their points, I can increase their base stats.
Buttons wrote:Also for the Artillery Observer I suggest a price increase, since currently one could get three for 285 points and toss 9 templates down on turn one. Also, IG has the Master of Ordinance who can only fire one per turn, if he doesn't move, he is attached to the command squad, doesn't get stealth, and his scatter is worse. For all that he still costs 30 points.
Yeah, I'm familiar with the Master of Ordnance. My experience with him is that he's a gimmick and next to useless due to almost never hitting his target. My Arty Observer retains his bad scatter with a slight improvement if you focus your fire on one point repeatedly. He lacks the survivability of being in a larger squad, but this is partially made up for with the radio operator for an extra wound, and Stealth. The artillery rounds are Ordnance so he's move or fire, and it's also a Unique unit so no spamming him. I can see the "Fire for Effect" being devastating, but it's a once per game thing, and unless you take a turn to bracket the target, you're liable to miss horribly with it. You might be right about the points tho, so consider him upped to 125.
kenshin620 wrote:
One of the first things I noticed though was the outdated Heavy Weapon Team rule. While I know people who are a little disgruntled with how 5th IG did it, for the sake of consistency I'd suggest doing it that way
Point taken. I didn't do it for any particular reason, other than streamlining the "Shaky Aim" special rule a little bit more across the army (and my own personal preferences for heavy weapon teams, being an old hand from 2nd Edition). Changed for the next update to the 5th edition Heavy Weapon Team style.
Thanks again, I really appreciate the feedback!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/20 03:16:19
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 04:58:17
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A Combined PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
Corvallis OR
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This is really unique, I feel that there is a lot that still needs to be added though. If you want to gives some details of units you would like to add, the basic general idea, but you cannot come up with fluff, or rules for it, just a role idea, let me know, as that seems to be the issue, its missing units with specific roles and that was the point of making the weak units balanced. keep it up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 15:24:13
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A Combined PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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sanguinius1123 wrote:This is really unique, I feel that there is a lot that still needs to be added though. If you want to gives some details of units you would like to add, the basic general idea, but you cannot come up with fluff, or rules for it, just a role idea, let me know, as that seems to be the issue, its missing units with specific roles and that was the point of making the weak units balanced. keep it up.
Thanks, sanguinius1123. I think you're right, there's definitely room for more units. I updated my first post to include a list of current and planned units in the codex as of now. What areas look weak to people? What are some fluffy units that could or should be included in a Planetary Defense Force or rebellious uprising that I'm missing?
I definitely need some special characters, and I might rearrange my HQ to group weaker characters (like the Demagogue and Unsanctioned Psyker) into a sort of "court" that can be spread out among the rest of the army.
I also think there needs to be a sort-of stormtrooper unit, like the Planetary Governor's elite, that any faction could take. That would give a regular human elite option that could be like a cross between stormtroopers and Chimera vets in the IG codex.
Keep the feedback and ideas coming!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 15:31:52
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 16:10:08
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
Belfast, Northern Ireland
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For a new unit you could try a frenzied mob. It would work like a large unit of Conscripts. They don't have anything other than a hand weapon though but they get two attacks. When they are within twelve inches of any enemy unit they dish out D6 strength three AP - hits to represent bottles petrol bombs etc. this is done to all enemies within 12 inches.
They also have the 'mob' rule. They count as stubborn and have furious charge until they fail a LD test, then they break for good (no rallyting) as their mob mentality and safety in numbers breaks.
This would serve as a good way of showing hordes of citizens getting worked up. You might also use this to add more flavour to any existing units.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 16:35:19
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Leech wrote:For a new unit you could try a frenzied mob. It would work like a large unit of Conscripts. They don't have anything other than a hand weapon though but they get two attacks. When they are within twelve inches of any enemy unit they dish out D6 strength three AP - hits to represent bottles petrol bombs etc. this is done to all enemies within 12 inches.
They also have the 'mob' rule. They count as stubborn and have furious charge until they fail a LD test, then they break for good (no rallyting) as their mob mentality and safety in numbers breaks.
This would serve as a good way of showing hordes of citizens getting worked up. You might also use this to add more flavour to any existing units.
So for that, right now I have what I call "Civilian Rabble". Paraphrasing their unit entry:
Civilian Rabble
Cult Leader: WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 Ld:7 Sv:6+
Civilian Rabble: WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:6+
Wargear: Laspistol and Close Combat Weapon
10 models, 5 pts each, add up to 20 more for 5 pts each
Options to add Flamers or Grenade Launchers, 1 for each 10 models, at 5 pts each
Option to upgrade 1 model in 10 to a Cult Leader for 5 pts each
Option to upgrade to: Frateris Militia (1pt/model), Chaos Cult (1 pt/model), Zombies 4 pts/model), or Brood Brothers (2 pts/model)
Special Rules:
Teeming Masses:
Each time the unit is shot at, place any wounds on models in order of distance from your table edge, furthest away first. Roll a D6 for any casualties. For each 4+, place a model back in coherency with the unit. Place the group of returned models such that they are the closest models in the unit to your table edge, and least 1” away from the rest of the unit. Any model cannot be placed is removed from play.
Attached Independent Characters removed as casualties cannot be replaced on the board. The unit still takes a Morale Check after suffering 25% casualties. If at any point there are no models in the unit on the board, it is considered destroyed.
Easy Target:
Any enemy shooting targeting the unit is considered twin-linked.
Frateris Militia* (Imperial only): Unit gains Preferred Enemy.
Chaos Cultists* (Traitor only): For every 10 models, one carries a Summoning Icon.
Brood Brothers* (Xenos only): +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Initiative, re-roll Run distance.
Zombies* (Traitor only)
Replace all weapons with a Poisoned Close Combat Weapon. The unit gains Fearless and Slow and Purposeful, and Feel no Pain. For every enemy infantry model killed by the unit in close combat, roll a D6. On a 6+, add another Zombie to the unit.
Right now the Civilian Rabble is pretty weak, leadership-wise, but adding a Demagogue makes them Stubborn and lets them re-roll Leadership tests (losing D3 models each time you re-roll), or for Brood Brothers, being within 12" of a Broodlord or Cult Magus makes them Fearless. What do you think?
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Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 17:03:57
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
Corvallis OR
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CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Leech wrote:For a new unit you could try a frenzied mob. It would work like a large unit of Conscripts. They don't have anything other than a hand weapon though but they get two attacks. When they are within twelve inches of any enemy unit they dish out D6 strength three AP - hits to represent bottles petrol bombs etc. this is done to all enemies within 12 inches.
They also have the 'mob' rule. They count as stubborn and have furious charge until they fail a LD test, then they break for good (no rallyting) as their mob mentality and safety in numbers breaks.
This would serve as a good way of showing hordes of citizens getting worked up. You might also use this to add more flavour to any existing units.
So for that, right now I have what I call "Civilian Rabble". Paraphrasing their unit entry:
Civilian Rabble
Cult Leader: WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 Ld:7 Sv:6+
Civilian Rabble: WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:6+
Wargear: Laspistol and Close Combat Weapon
10 models, 5 pts each, add up to 20 more for 5 pts each
Options to add Flamers or Grenade Launchers, 1 for each 10 models, at 5 pts each
Option to upgrade 1 model in 10 to a Cult Leader for 5 pts each
Option to upgrade to: Frateris Militia (1pt/model), Chaos Cult (1 pt/model), Zombies 4 pts/model), or Brood Brothers (2 pts/model)
Special Rules:
Teeming Masses:
Each time the unit is shot at, place any wounds on models in order of distance from your table edge, furthest away first. Roll a D6 for any casualties. For each 4+, place a model back in coherency with the unit. Place the group of returned models such that they are the closest models in the unit to your table edge, and least 1” away from the rest of the unit. Any model cannot be placed is removed from play.
Attached Independent Characters removed as casualties cannot be replaced on the board. The unit still takes a Morale Check after suffering 25% casualties. If at any point there are no models in the unit on the board, it is considered destroyed.
Easy Target:
Any enemy shooting targeting the unit is considered twin-linked.
Frateris Militia* (Imperial only): Unit gains Preferred Enemy.
Chaos Cultists* (Traitor only): For every 10 models, one carries a Summoning Icon.
Brood Brothers* (Xenos only): +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Initiative, re-roll Run distance.
Zombies* (Traitor only)
Replace all weapons with a Poisoned Close Combat Weapon. The unit gains Fearless and Slow and Purposeful, and Feel no Pain. For every enemy infantry model killed by the unit in close combat, roll a D6. On a 6+, add another Zombie to the unit.
Right now the Civilian Rabble is pretty weak, leadership-wise, but adding a Demagogue makes them Stubborn and lets them re-roll Leadership tests (losing D3 models each time you re-roll), or for Brood Brothers, being within 12" of a Broodlord or Cult Magus makes them Fearless. What do you think?
That is an interesting idea, but instead of making them all units, make it a swarm, use a dreadnought sized template, and put 5 models on it. and have them have those statistics. they get one shooting attack for every wound they have left, they get one melee attack for every wound left. They start with 5 wounds toughness 3. give them a 5+ armor save. And if at the beginning of there movement phase, roll a d6 for every wound they are missing, and on a 4+ the wound is regenerated with a new person. This would make them hard to hit as they get +1 cover. but templates and flamers would decimate them, as it should. Make them 25 pts each or something. depending on how strong you make there attacks. oh and they definitely need rage, and move through cover. make them 50 pts per base, str 3 ap 6 shooting attack, and in melee they would attack at str 3 or str 4 of the mob is at full strength. (represents them working together to tear apart and pin enemies).
Allow the unit to have 1-6 bases, and independent characters can attach to it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 17:10:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 17:24:49
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
Belfast, Northern Ireland
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That's a good idea. A swarm will have the mob mentallity that is needed. They also don't claim objectives which will fit in with the idea they are undiciplined and just shoot their guns in the air and run about when they win.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 17:47:27
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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The swarm idea is interesting, but maybe a little too out there. I do like the simplicity of it as far as regenerating wounds instead of Teeming Masses, but I think it would get weird fast to have that many 60mm bases running around the board as a unit. Rage is a good idea though, I will amend them to have it. Maybe there's a way to simplify the Teeming Masses rule? My idea was that as the mob came closer, the front ranks would be cut down, but more people would be filling in from behind. Perhaps just giving them Feel no Pain, but remove casualties in order of closest to the enemy deployment zone, and for every Feel no Pain save, move a model from the front of the unit to the rear of the unit. Automatically Appended Next Post: Updated: So I gave the Civilian Mob the Rage USR, replaced Easy Target with Vulnerable to Blasts, upped their points cost by 25 pts, and changed Teeming Masses to the following: Teeming Masses* Wounds from enemy shooting must be allocated in order of distance from the enemy deployment zone, closest models first. Apply unsaved wounds in the same order. At the start of the owning player’s Movement phase, if the unit is not Pinned or Broken, add 2D6 Civilian Rabble to the unit. Place the new models in coherency with the current models in the unit, and at least 2” closer to the owning player’s deployment zone than any of the current models in the unit. New models must be placed outside Dangerous terrain and outside 1” of enemy models. Any Civilian Rabble that cannot be placed are lost. Sort of like a moving Tervigon-esque unit, spawning new models that have to be added to the rear of the unit (as more supporters pour in to join the fight). Rules lawyers, please tear this to pieces and find any loopholes lol.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/21 18:56:51
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 19:14:51
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
Corvallis OR
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CalgarsPimpHand wrote:The swarm idea is interesting, but maybe a little too out there. I do like the simplicity of it as far as regenerating wounds instead of Teeming Masses, but I think it would get weird fast to have that many 60mm bases running around the board as a unit.
Rage is a good idea though, I will amend them to have it.
Maybe there's a way to simplify the Teeming Masses rule? My idea was that as the mob came closer, the front ranks would be cut down, but more people would be filling in from behind. Perhaps just giving them Feel no Pain, but remove casualties in order of closest to the enemy deployment zone, and for every Feel no Pain save, move a model from the front of the unit to the rear of the unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated:
So I gave the Civilian Mob the Rage USR, replaced Easy Target with Vulnerable to Blasts, upped their points cost by 25 pts, and changed Teeming Masses to the following:
Teeming Masses*
Wounds from enemy shooting must be allocated in order of distance from the enemy deployment zone, closest models first. Apply unsaved wounds in the same order.
At the start of the owning player’s Movement phase, if the unit is not Pinned or Broken, add 2D6 Civilian Rabble to the unit. Place the new models in coherency with the current models in the unit, and at least 2” closer to the owning player’s deployment zone than any of the current models in the unit. New models must be placed outside Dangerous terrain and outside 1” of enemy models. Any Civilian Rabble that cannot be placed are lost.
Sort of like a moving Tervigon-esque unit, spawning new models that have to be added to the rear of the unit (as more supporters pour in to join the fight). Rules lawyers, please tear this to pieces and find any loopholes lol.
Armies with scouts, or infiltrate, and I know you did have some shenangins type spawning rules that could be given to these units. I suggest just makeing them 60mm templates If you give it eternal warrior, making it insta death proof, Then you can up the points value to at least double, making it 50 or even 75, they would be an amazing tie. and you could make a special rule, if a str hit is double there toughness, they take 2 wounds if they fail a save. and if its a template+instadeath, a single template hit would do 2 wounds + 2 more so a flamestorm cannon would leave it with one wound left. also you could make it so that the str of the unit is the amount of wounds it has left. so 5 at 5 wounds down to 1 before it dies. Trying to make special rules for placing units is just a bad idea imo as someone will find a way to abuse it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and also you can use 30 or 40 mm templates if you would prefer, but I think 60mm would work fine. especially if you up the cost to 75 pts each. I feel like this would be a unit used as cannon fodder, but it has no real killing power. so I think most people would take 10-20% of there points on these, to charge foward, and the rest for normal stuff. Or you could make these squads a troop choice, you can have 1-4 bases, at 75 pts each and can only take 2 of them, so a maximum of 8 of these will be on the table. These would also be used to give melee units behind them cover saves etc.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 19:18:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 19:26:02
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Fixture of Dakka
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They already have several army lists from Forge World, some of which are even publicly available.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 19:30:58
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
Corvallis OR
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Also, just had an interesting idea for a unit.
Insane Driver (basically just a basic civilian car retrofitted for combat, with some metal sheets etc over the windows etc.)
Vehicle, fast, open topped 30pts
f10 s10 b10 bs3
can fire one gun per passenger, the driver may fire, and you may add up to 4 passengers at 10 pts per passenger
gun= s3 ap6 18 inch rapid fire at 9 inches
*all passengers may fire if the vehicles has moved all out, but at bs 2 instead of 3, the driver may not fire.
*the car is filled with explosives, and if it tank shocks a unit, it can decide, before any tank shock rolls are made, to explode, dealing d6 str4 ap5 wounds to the unit, and is removed. This causes an instant morale check. at a -1 modifier. When ramming, this vehicle rolls a d6, on a 1-2 add 1 str to the ram, on a 3-4 add 2 str, on a 5 add 3 str, on a 6 add 3 str and roll another d6, using the same rules, but as 6 cannot add another d6.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 19:40:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/21 21:39:00
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex - Need ideas for more units!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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sanguinius1123 wrote:
Armies with scouts, or infiltrate, and I know you did have some shenangins type spawning rules that could be given to these units. I suggest just makeing them 60mm templates If you give it eternal warrior, making it insta death proof, Then you can up the points value to at least double, making it 50 or even 75, they would be an amazing tie. and you could make a special rule, if a str hit is double there toughness, they take 2 wounds if they fail a save. and if its a template+instadeath, a single template hit would do 2 wounds + 2 more so a flamestorm cannon would leave it with one wound left. also you could make it so that the str of the unit is the amount of wounds it has left. so 5 at 5 wounds down to 1 before it dies. Trying to make special rules for placing units is just a bad idea imo as someone will find a way to abuse it.
and also you can use 30 or 40 mm templates if you would prefer, but I think 60mm would work fine. especially if you up the cost to 75 pts each. I feel like this would be a unit used as cannon fodder, but it has no real killing power. so I think most people would take 10-20% of there points on these, to charge foward, and the rest for normal stuff. Or you could make these squads a troop choice, you can have 1-4 bases, at 75 pts each and can only take 2 of them, so a maximum of 8 of these will be on the table. These would also be used to give melee units behind them cover saves etc.
I agree, the unit is mostly cannon fodder with little killing power. However, I think this rule is a little less abusable than before and easier to understand. You're right about the scout/infiltrate loophole. If you come in behind an enemy unit, then in your next movement phase get to place models behind your own unit, you've just brought your Civilian Mob closer to the enemy without moving. I've adjusted it a little to make it harder to reinforce the unit - you can't be in the enemy deployment zone, and you can't place models within 6" of the enemy. This minimizes the danger with Outflanking moves and makes it easier for the enemy to "shut down" your flow of Civilian Rabble by getting behind your unit.
DarknessEternal wrote:They already have several army lists from Forge World, some of which are even publicly available.
Thanks, I wasn't aware.  Seriously, I've used some of those lists before. I'm pretty sure Forge World has never published a flexible all-in-one codex like this that covers Imperial PDF, Chaos uprisings, and Genestealer Cult rebellions. Do correct me if I'm wrong though.
sanguinius1123 wrote:Also, just had an interesting idea for a unit.
Insane Driver...
I think that has some promise, probably as a suicide bomber unit for Traitor or Xenos aligned forces. Fast vehicle, armor 9 all around, can Tank Shock or Ram but when it does, it explodes with a large blast, S7 AP4 Pinning, also adding +3 Strength to the Ramming attack. If you get an Explodes result on the damage table, it automatically blows up 6" out with the same S7 AP4 Pinning hit instead of the usual result.
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Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/22 01:09:56
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v0.22 with Arbites Bikers!
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
Corvallis OR
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I was reading through the codex, and I saw no jump infantry of any kind. I think it would be interesting, if some of the daemon or xenos aligned forces had jump infantry, that counted as almost teleporting persay. but would move as jump infantry, the fluff just describes it a teleporting, and they would have relentless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/22 01:54:35
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v0.22 with Arbites Bikers!
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Lord of the Fleet
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sanguinius1123 wrote:I was reading through the codex, and I saw no jump infantry of any kind
Undivided Lesser Daemons are jump infantry. Although I think that space marines should have the ability to have jump packs. To represent those who are assault marines/raptors
Also I think Arbites should have the ability to take heavy stubbers too since their necromunda models have them
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/22 02:21:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/22 02:53:31
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v0.22 with Arbites Bikers!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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My intention was to keep the Space Marines as basic as possible. I like contrasting the weakness of the rest of the list with the power of even vanilla tactical marines. It's just a style thing though, if the marines needed changing (or even removing) I'd look at the idea for sure. But I don't see jump packs being a necessity for them. A drop pod, maybe...
Anyway, I can think of a few other ways to add jump troops. First, the mutants should have a "wings" mutation. That's pretty easy, and gives another attractive option for the Traitor alignment. Second, I can add a new fast attack "hybrid" variant for the Xenos aligned list, say a "death leaper" hybrid, that grants the jump pack rules to a high initiative, high attacks, rending unit with a low model count.
That just leaves the Imperial alignment without a jump pack unit, but I don't see it as a big problem. Choosing the Imperial alignment isn't a whole lot different from playing Imperial Guard (aside from some interesting auxiliaries you can pull in, like Arbites, Space Marines, and Frateris Militia), and the IG don't have jump troops either.
All that considered, I think what would really help now would be some playtesting. I know it's kinda tough asking people to playtest an army that doesn't really exist, but it's possible to pull together units from different armies to proxy things. In my experience so far it's a fun little list to play, but without a diverse cross section of players, lists, and opponents, there's no way to know where things are broken.
Edit: forgot to say, Arbites definitely should have heavy stubbers. Good catch. I plan on adding a fast attack Cyber Mastiff unit too, so all the Necromunda models are represented.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/22 02:54:27
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/22 03:10:31
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v0.22 with Arbites Bikers!
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Lord of the Fleet
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Hmm another thing I noticed was that a Demagogue has a WS of 5. Not even Inquisitors have that WS~ I doubt the average Fanatical Leader is as good as Space Marine Captains in CC.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/23 02:31:38
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v0.22 with Arbites Bikers!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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You're quite right. I dropped the Demagogue's WS to 4 as it should be.
Also I've reworked the Mutants unit entry with a revised statline and an adjusted Mutations table. I tried my best to eliminate any "duds" so every mutation is hopefully desirable in some circumstance. With the flexibility written into the rules, you can safely take the unit without worrying that they'll randomly end up useless (I'm looking at you, Possessed CSM).
I'm not putting up a new version until I get some more of the missing units added, so here's the Mutant unit as it stands now:
Mutants - 40 pts
Mutant: WS3, BS2, S3, T3, W1, I3, A2, Ld7, Sv6+
Unit Composition: 5 Mutants
Unit Type: Infantry
Wargear: Close Combat Weapons (extra attack included in profile), Crude Armor
Special Rules: None
Options:
Select a Mark of Allegiance for free:
- Traitor
- Xenos
Add up to 15 more Mutants at 8 pts/model
The unit must select one of the following:
- Mutant Gang* - free
- Possessed* - 2 pts/model
- Xenos Hybrids* - 3 pts/model
Mutant Gang* (Traitor only)
Mutant Gangs often travel via sewer and may Deep Strike. Also, before either side deploys, choose one mutation from the Mutations* list. No two Mutant Gang units may have the same Mutation.
Any model may be given a Laspistol for:
- 1 pt/model
Possessed* (Traitor only)
Possessed have a 5+ Invulnerable save. In addition, choose one possession effect from each column of the Mutations* list before either side deploys. No two Possessed units may have identical Mutations.
Hybrids* (Xenos only)
Xenos Hybrids have the Infiltrate special rule, and automatically select Killer Instincts, Razor Claws, and Extra Limbs from the Mutations* list.
Any model may be given a Laspistol for:
- 1 pt/model
Mutations*
(Column 1)
Unnatural Vitality: Feel no Pain
Winged: Jump infantry
Teleport: Deep Strike
Redundant Organs: +1 Toughness
Fast Reflexes: 5+ Inv. against close combat attacks, ignore difficult and dangerous terrain
(Column 2)
Deadly Toxins: Close combat attacks are Poisoned
Adrenal Burst: Furious Charge
Razor Claws: Close combat attacks are Rending
Extra Limbs: +1 Attack
Killer Instincts: +2 Weapon Skill, +2 Initiative
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/23 02:38:07
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/30 16:06:31
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v1.0 - all units are in!
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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So the first "complete" version of the codex is up. All the units I intended to include are now in, and just about every other unit has seen some revisions based on my limited playtesting.
In particular, the Civilian Rabble's Teeming Masses rule has been adjusted to avoid completely flooding the table with cultists, although they are still quite a pain if you pair them up with a Demagogue.
New units include Adeptus Arbites Enforcers (complete with cyber mastiffs), a Suicide Car Bomber that has the potential to be quite deadly if it manages to survive enemy gunfire, and Arbites Sharpshooters that can be purchased along with the Arbites Judge.
Now I know this army is probably hard to playtest, being that it includes a mishmash of existing units from different armies, combined with units that don't really exist or are extremely rare. That said, I'd at least be interested to see what kind of army lists people come up with, even if playtesting isn't possible.
Also I realize the list lacks a little in flavor, though I can't put my finger on what to add, aside from a few special characters for each army with some interesting rules and wargear. Suggestions, as always, are welcome! Thanks for taking a look!
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Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/31 14:06:47
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v1.0 - all units are in!
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Unbalanced Fanatic
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This is a very interesting army list for certain. It might suffer just a bit from trying to do too many thing at once, but as the forces you are trying to represent are similar in style and composition, it doesn't hinder it as much as if you were trying to combine a full Space Marine and Imperial Guard list or something.
I really liked a few things I saw, such as your Marks of Allegiance (which make it easy to tell which units are available to which armies, while also providing a small bonus), the Insurgency (costing more based on the size of the army is great) and especially the Purestrain Stalker ("Clever Girl" is both a great rule, and an awesome reference to a great movie!). I may try to squeeze a very similar Stalker into my own GS Cult rules in my Arbites Adversaries list. If not, then if I ever get around to doing a full-blown GS Cult army, you can bet it will appear there!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/31 22:57:13
Subject: The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v1.0 - all units are in!
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Lord of the Fleet
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While I know that anyone who has previous knowledge of the rhino/repressor/chimera would know, you should probably include the number of fireports
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/03 21:11:52
Subject: Re:The Lost and the Damned: A PDF/Chaos Cultist/Genestealer Cult Codex v1.0 - all units are in!
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Fixture of Dakka
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Rightyhoo, some quick feedback as requested. Please note I've not read it entirely or thoroughly, these are just some initial observations.
- Unique isn't a special rule; this is a pedantic note though.
- Shaky aim seems like a very nice little rule. Potentially easily negated via High Ld, but otherwise nice.
- I must say, I'm not really a fan of the Marks of Allegiance concept, I think trying to incorporate 3 armies within 1 list is very ambitious. However, the effects of the marks themselves seem pretty balanced, though the Imperial's may be getting a bit of a bum deal in comparison.
- Highborn Officer doesn't have a points cost or unit type etc. I'd say the Plasma Pistol and Bolt Pistol are too cheap too, Daemon Host is probably too cheap too.
- Arbites Judge doesn't describe the Refractor Field & again the Plasma Pistol is too cheap IMHO. The Arbites shooters seem like a nice idea, but pretty weak; they ideally should hit harder and/or cost less and not be worth 1 KP each.
- The unsanctioned psyker also doesn't have a pts cost.
- Traitor Astartes Champion Powerfist costs 15pts extra; this should really be 10pts. Furthermore, the marks really should cost more. +1 attack alone is worth 5pts (easily) for example and MoT is wheyhey cheap. Lightning Claws are too expensive an upgrade also.
- Individually, the Astartes themselves are too expensive IMHO, while the cost of their marks may be too cheap.
- I think the Arbites Officers are over-costed too; compare what they can provide for 12pts to current DA's, who are relatively 'meh' themselves.
That's all I've read so far, it seems to be an ambitious concept with some nice units, however I think it really needs a re-read to make sure everything is where it should be, whilst I've noticed a lot of issues with Chaos stuff in particular; the Mutants for example should probably be about 7pts max, whilst the possessed/hybrid upgrades are far too cheap. I found several things within the document to be a bit of an auto-take, particularly within Chaos stuff, which is obviously my area of 'expertise'.
Hope that helps man, good luck.
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"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
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