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Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Back again with another offering. This time, I present the Genestealer Cult - my favorite adversaries for my beloved Adeptus Aribtes. My initial thoughts and notes as to the design I chose are contained within the document itself, which weighs in at a mere 16 pages total. As always, I am quite open to comments and constructive criticism - and as you can see by reading though my other Codex development threads, I am definitely willing to incorporate good ideas into my rules - so fire away with your thoughts!

* UPDATED 03/04/2014 *

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This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 18:56:12


Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in it
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





VERY NICE!!! A very good fandex... definitely not extremely competitive, but surely it catch the feeling!!
I have only some minor issues: Do the Magus deserve ML2? it's the mastery level of an highly experienced librarian or chaos sorcerer, while I totally love the" Brood focus" of the patriarch, but maybe I would change the "for every fifteen models" to "for every x number of units".... maybe it's less balanced but I feel it could be cumbersome to count all the models.
Also, the cultists mobs as swarms are very nice but I think few of us has similar models, so maybe switching back to normal infantry would be better.
Finally, the "poor maintainance" is a HUGE nerf to vehicles but the Chimera still costs 55... why don't you make it 5 or 10 points cheaper?
Still I have to say: Good job Ambience. it's a very good dex!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what kind of hybrid do the "Hierarchs" represent? Because 2 wound guys are usually the true elite but they have GEQ stats for the rest...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/26 17:35:44


 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




Man that was great, took me back to my teens (when this type of stuff could have appeared in white catalogue)

I would hire you as a codex writer......perhaps you could produce a legion codex for night lords, iron warriors and the alpha legion? I would like to see that my friend lol

Well done sir
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Thank you both for your comments so far. I have done my best to address them in my new update.

@ Lovepug - I am not nearly as knowledgeable about the various Chaos Legions as I am Genestealers and Arbites, nor am I as drawn to them, so it is unlikely that I will put this kind of work into those kinds of lists. I can only motivate myself to work on things that I am passionate about.


New Version Uploaded (see first post)

Change Log:

- Reduced the Magus to Mastery Level 1, reducing his points cost to 50 as well.


- Introduced the option to upgarde the Patriarch to an Ancient Patriarch, reducing his WS, I and A, but giving him Mastery Level 2.


These two changes were made as it was pointed out that that level tends to be reserved for very powerful individuals, which a Magus might find hard to match. I still wanted the Cult to have access to a ML2 Psyker, but I didn't want it combined with a pure combat monster like the Patriarch. However, a hoary old Patriarch who has been around a long time and has a fair few followers might just fit the bill.


- Altered Brood Focus to reflect the additional option of the Ancient Patriarch, and to make its bonus based on units rather than models for easier calculations.


- Removed "It Will Not Die" from the Will of the Brood Warlord Trait.


- Reduced the cost of the Genestealer Hierarch HQ to 15 points, reduced the cost to make him a Psyker to 10 points, and restricted the Force Rod as an upgrade only allowed if he is a psyker.


- Added the Mob Mentality rule to Brood Brother Initiate Mobs, which explains what Ld X means. This was an oversight - sorry for the confusion!


- Added the Poorly Maintained rule to Liberated Tank Squadrons and Liberated Artillery Batteries. They were supposed to have it to begin with, but I forgot.


- Reduced the cost of all vehicles with the Poorly Maintained and Specialist Munitions rules.


- Reworked Firearms to replace Gets Hot! with a random rate of fire. (D3+1, so 2-4 shots per turn.)


- Increased the Strength and AP on Firebombs to put it in line with Flamers, but added Gets Hot! and restricted their use mostly to non-Hybrid types to make them dangerous tools that are only given to the more expendable troops. They are situational, but now should at least be fairly competetive with Assault Grenades in some instances, without totally eclipsing them.


- Added an option to upgrade Brood Brother Bodyguards to Ogryn Bodyguards. Hopefully this is a good enough justification for the Hulking Hybrids for those looking for it. It also strikes me as a good use for Ogryn Brood Brothers - they are big and tough, so guarding the Patriarch and other higher-up members of the Cult would be a logical use for them. Giving them guard shields makes for a fairly resilient meat shield.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

New Version Uploaded 02/08/2013 (see first post)

Change Log:

- Allowed Genestealer Purestrain Broods to take up to 9 additional Genestealers.

- Added an option for Genestealer Broods to upgrade one model to a "Firstborn"

- Changed the HQ Hierach to allow an additional Hierach to be added for every full 750 points in your army.

- Added Version # and Page #'s as a footer, helpful for those who might be printing this thing out to keep track of which page goes with which version.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/08 20:56:30


Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

New version uploaded 03/27/2013 - see first post.

Change log:

- Clarified how HQ-level Genestealer Hierarchs are purchased for armies with multiple detachments.

- Increased Hierarch points cost at both HQ and ELITES level. (from 15 to 20 per model)

- Updated the Ogryn Bodyguard upgrade so that they must replace their Autopistol with either a Heavy Chainsword or a Heavy Stubber. Increased their cost by 5 points.

- Added an option for Hulking Hybrids to take Heavy Chainswords for 5 points, allowing them a different option for being a very dangerous threat in close combat - especially against low-save, multi-wound models like IG characters. (S7, AP5 = instant death spree on IG officers and the like). They now have to choose between these, heavy stubbers and rending claws. Tough call...

- Replaced Hunter Killer missiles with the new "Tube Missile". I figure HK's are probably harder to come by than many other types of Imperial Munitions, so the Cult improvises something similar, with a broader blast and slightly less power and range (hence 24", S7, AP4, Blast). Also allows me to slap it on the trucks and limos without feeling like they are too powerful as fast anti-tank tools), and helps fit the "improvised insurgency" theme the list is building to.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

New Version Uploaded 08/03/2013 - see first post.

Change Log:

- Added a section to the Brood Focus special rule making it so that the Patriarch is worth an additional Victory Point if he is actually slain - giving slightly more incentive to keep him alive, and adding a bit more weight to losing him.

- Added a caveat to Children of the Father that units locked in combat do not need to take the Morale test.

- Clarified the Die Another Day special rule, stating that "no other unit IN THAT COMBAT may attempt to Hit and Run"

- Adjusted the wording of Specialised Munitions so that the affected weapon counts as being destroyed (no Hull Points are lost) to avoid any possible confusion as to what happens if the vehicle later suffers a Weapon Destroyed result.

- Clarified the Martyr Harness, stating that: "In any event, if the Martyr Harness is detonated, the model must be removed as a casualty, even if no wounds were inflicted on his unit." Also added that: "Wounds caused by a Martyr Harness during the Assault Phase count towards Combat Resolution. Note that Wounds caused by a Martyr Harness to friendly models count as having been inflicted by the opposing side."

- Added an exception to the Improvised Armour vehicle upgrade, disallowing vehicles from moving Flat Out if they have these heavy armour plates added.

- Added an effect to the Stand for the Cause! psychic power so that: "Affected units that are Falling Back immediately regroup."

- Added a few new options for Genestealer Hierarchs, allowing them to take Cavalry or Bike mounts, and a few special and heavy weapons, giving them more tactical flexibility and allowing them to better integrate with different units, which in turn makes them more attractive as an option.

- Added a new unit option - "Disguised Genestealers". These are designed to "pop up" unexpectedly from Cult units as hidden surprises, which is achieved by secretly writing down which units they are hidden within, and not revealing them until those units find themselves in close combat.

- Added the option for Brood Brother Bodyguards and Ogryn Bodyguards to upgrade their Improvised Armour to Carapace Armour for 5 points per model.

- Added a clarification that attached ammunition dumps, comms relays and sapper dens are destroyed along with a tunnel entrance.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in ua
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





Biomancy and Telekinesis have withchfire powers that utilize BS, yet your Patriachs have no BS and therefore cannot shoot.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/08/14 20:27:30


"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

The Broodlord in the Tyranid list has the same problem, and that's how GW left it. I try to keep my rules as consistent with GW's rules as possible without sacrificing the flavor or theme I am going for, and this is one way I do so.

Nothing prevents you from not rolling on those tables - but doing so risks rolling up useless powers.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in gb
Sacrifice to the Dark Gods




I like this very much. I wrote a 5th Ed codex myself and am in the process of updating to 6th. When I've finished I'll share it here. We have some different ideas, was interesting to see someone else's vision.
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Make sure you create your own thread so people can comment on our separate work without confusion - but feel free to send me a link to it. I'd love to take a look at what you post.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

New Version Uploaded - see first post.

Change Log:

- Updated the Specialist Munitions to make it less random, allowing the Genestealer Cult player to decide which vehicles to concentrate his limited resources into. (However, as a side effect, it then becomes possible for the enemy to target the vehicles with more ammo first in order to limit the heavy firepower coming his way.)

- Added a new effect to the "We Die That He May Live!" rule allowing members of the Brood Brother Bodyguard to accept challenges like characters if the Magus or Patriarch are currently joined to their unit. (Yes, this means you could have an Ogryn Bodyguard accept a challenge.)

- Added Trip Mines as a wargear item and gave them to Outrider Squads as standard. Increased their unit cost from 30 to 45 points base to account for this. These rules are obviously borrowed from Space Marine Scouts with their Cluster Mines, and I figured they added another nice nod to guerilla warfare. It also makes the Outriders a bit tastier of a choice, since they were competing with big-gun units in the form of Sentinel and Gun Truck Squadrons in an army already overflowing with close combat prowess.

- Noted the Unit Type for the Sapper Den Zealot as Infantry for completeness.

- Replaced the Fearless rule with the Zealot rule for the Sapper Den Zealot. I figure it won't mean much, as Zealot adds Hatred on top of Fearless and he probably won't be doing much actual fighting, but if anyone should have the Zealot rule, it is a Zealot...

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in gb
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna





I think you should limit the tanks and certainly not have squadrons of them; or raise thier costs (above the IG points cost) to highlight the difficulty a cult would have gaining and maintaining them.

I don't think they should be able to field as many LRBTs as a guard army.

Awesome list by the way!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/27 14:29:58


 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Thanks for the comments. As to why I allowed tank squadrons, this comes down to leaving things open for player choice and personal interpretations of the fluff.

I decided to allow tank squadrons so that people can make their own choice on what their Cult has access to. Someone who wants to keep their Cult under-equipped can take just one or two tanks (or even none), while someone who wants to represent a Cult that has managed to waggle their way into significant portions of the PDF and the government can have squadrons.

That said, they are still bound by the Poorly Maintained and Specialist Munitions rules, which should keep the tanks from being the dominant force that the represent for the Imperial Guard.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

So after getting to play quite a few games recently, including some for an Escalation League (where the organizer graciously allowed me to use my homebrew codex!), I have a bit more insight into how the army is playing and what needs changed.

One thing I can say for sure - Martyr Harnesses and Rigged Systems are FUN. Losing a vehicle is far less painful when it takes a handful of elite enemy troopers along with it in a huge fireball. It is also rather hilarious when a chunk is taken out of your own battle line because the enemy managed to pop a few of your rigged vehicles early on before you had a chance to disperse.


With all that said, I've uploaded a new version (see the first post). Update Log:

- Clarified the Specialised Munitions rule as to when ammo counters are allocated.

- Updated Rending Claws to AP 5 to bring them in line with the new Tyranid Codex.

- Noted that vehicles must still test for "The Cult Ascendent!", all counting as Ld 10 for the test. It was brought to my attention that there was no clear answer to what a vehicle does for Leadership tests in 6th edition, merely a mention that vehicles never take Morale tests.

- Updated the Martyr Harness to allow activation at Initiative 10. Between being shot up on the way to combat, Overwatch fire, and being killed before their Initiative step, the Harness wasn't going off in combat often enough. (Also, there was precedent in the new Tyranids Codex of Spore Mines exploding at I10.)

- Added the "Ignores Cover" rule to the Martyr Harness to give it a little more punch, as well as to make working out their effects in an Assault just a little bit easier and less confusion. (Remember, they can be just as dangerous to your own troops, especially when used in Initiate mobs.)

- Improved Guard Shield invulnerable save from 6+ to 5+. They just weren't an attractive enough option when you have to give up your bonus attack in order to take them.

- Added a chance for Rigged Systems to detonate if a vehicle is wrecked. These things are so fun, I wanted to have them going off more often. (Of course, this is still just as dangerous to your own units, especially if you are rigging your Transports to blow...)

- Replaced the Aura of Despair Psychic Power with The Horror.

- Updated the Catalyst Psychic Power to bring it in line with the new Tyranid Codex.

- Added the Bulky special rule to Patriarchs and Ancient Patriarchs.

- Added the Very Bulky special rule to Initiate Packs.

- Added the Primogenitor special rule to the Patriarch unit entry, allowing an army to only ever have one Patriarch or Ancient Patriarch, and requiring him to be your Warlord if he is part of your army and the Cult is the Primary Detachment.

- Allowed Cult Limos to carry Bulky models, and increased their transport capacity to 8 models.

- Reduced Brood Brother Bodyguard Squads minimum size to 3 models, but kept the maximum unit size at 10 models. (This is to allow the possibility of a Patriarch and 3 Ogryn in a Limo.)

- Updated "The Shadow Draws Nigh!" Warlod Trait to bring it in line with how Shadow in the Warp works in the new Tyranid Codex.

- Added a bit to the Tunnel Network rule for Hidden Tunnels, allowing friendly non-vehicle units to "embark" into a tunnel entrance in order to enter Ongoing Reserve, to be redeployed next turn via any available means. This makes tunnels even more useful, and provides an additional incentive for the enemy to occupy or destroy the entrances, which should make for a more exciting game overall.

- Increased the cost of each tunnel entrance by 5 points to reflect the new additional use.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






It looks like a solid codex on par with forgeworld ones! It seems a bit underpowered though, but i guess it's the way to go for homebrew dexes.
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Thanks! The mention of Forgeworld is high praise indeed. I'm honored.

And yeah, I tend to lean toward slightly underpowerd or overpriced just a bit, and then I try to adjust them toward perfectly balanced as time goes on.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Trip Mines seem a bit ridiculous. Consider;
~ cannot target a terrain piece partially or wholly in the enemy deployment zont
~ friends and enemies both suffer from the effects, not just enemy units

Otherwise great job
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Trip mines are taken directly from Codex: Space Marines. See Cluster Mines.

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





There's only two things that stand out to me on the bad side. The first is the number of special rules - not the potency, but man is that a lot of stuff to remember! Consider trimming or simplifying, remember people playing against this codex need to be able to figure all of it out in just a minute or so!

The second problem is (predictably) the martyr harness. Admittedly I've never play tested it, but ~85 points for a unit that can cause THAT kind of destruction to just about anything seems a bit below the belt. Add in that it's scoring so it can't be kited or ignored and it's rather resilient to basic shooting, add in it ignores all armor, doubles out T4 AND strikes at I10 (the holy grail of melee weapons) and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The fact that it's yet another kick in the nuts to someone who DARES to try to melee this edition is just a bonus.

Aside from that, the only nitpick is why are firebombs and improvised armor so good?

Firebombs are almost a straight upgrade from frag grenades for one of the most basic of improvised weapons. I don't think they're overpowered, it's just WTF. IA8 had rules (wth grots) for firebombs, maybe check that out.

Improvised Armor is in the same boat - some garbage and cement provides the same level of protection as a Dark Eldar shield generator - with the added bonus of being probably too cheap. Consider the IG book has camo netting at 20 points per vehicle. I'd probably go with something like 5 points per HP of the vehicle.
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Fort Wayne, IN, USA

Thanks for the feedback. It is very helpful!

I do agree there are quite a lot of special rules, but to get the flavor I want, they are fairly important. Most of them seem a bit wordy, but they can really be summed up pretty quickly. The reason they are so verbose is to make it clear exactly how they work, reducing confusion when sticky situations arise. I am still looking to see if I can reduce their wording any without losing important information.

That said, none of my recent opponents seemed to be confused or overwhelmed by the number of special rules.

As to the Martyr Harness, they really aren't as bad as you make them out to be. True, they are pretty strong, but no more so than Demolition Charges, which don't require you to get into close combat to use them (though the Martyr Harness is a bit more accurate when it does go off). In addition, it is virtually guaranteed to do some serious damage to the Initiate Mob when it goes off, since it causes Instant Death to them and ignores their Armour.

Also, you are incorrect about the Initiate Mob being Scoring, because they have the Swarm special rule. Swarms are specifically prohibited from being either a Scoring or Denial Unit in the definition of Scoring units.

Finally, I only recently added the I10 aspect, specifically because they seemed to be dying before they could use their Martyr Harness far more often than not. Sure, they are very dangerous weapons, and they are something that you want to try and shoot down rather than Assault, but they have not proved to be overly powerful in any of my test games thus far.

I do see your point on the firebombs. They do sort of outshine frag grenades, and while I am charging extra for them, they might just be a bit too powerful for something that is - as you said - a rather basic improvised weapon. Perhaps if I reduced their profile to S3 AP- and kept them to their shorter range (6") and keep the Gets Hot and Ignores Cover rules, they might feel a bit less over the top?

On Improvised Armour, it is a bit of a stretch to say it provides the same level of protection as the Dark Eldar Flickerfield. The Flickerfield is a constant 5+ Invulnerable Save against all damage with no drawbacks. Improvised Armour is a 5+ Invulnerable Save against GLANCING HITS only, and has the disadvantage of preventing the vehicle from moving Flat Out.

On the lighter civilian vehicles (the trucks and limo), this really slows down their potential moves (since they are Fast vehicles), and doesn't even come in to play often (since they are Armour 10/10/10 and 11/11/10 respectively, and thus often Penetrated rather than Glanced).

On the heavier military vehicles, it can be rather useful, but these vehicles already suffer from their own issues (what with Poorly Maintained and Specialised Munitions potentially nerfing them halfway through the battle).

Codex: Eldar Exodites (7th Ed - added 03/23/2015)
Codex: Adeptus Arbites (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Hive Spyrers (7th Ed - updated 8/19/2014)
Codex: Genestealer Cult (6th Ed - updated 03/04/2013)

Agents of the Imperium Project Log
Genestealer Cult Project Log 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





Ah, I hadn't noticed that improvised armor worked only on glances. That's pretty solid, then.

Still not sold on the harnesses. The I10 think to me does't make sense because they're still going off on a 4+ even if they are struck down before 'swinging', and it doesn't allow any real counterplay. It'd be neat if the martyr models were characters and they could be challenged out (with the implication being they don't explode...or something). That'd give you the double benefit of a LoS against barrage weapons and the like as the rest of the mob tries to cover the explosive guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/10 08:27:21


 
   
 
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