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This is meant to be a strong, but fun list to play, won't be going to any tournaments or anything with it, just want a solid, playable blood angels list with some flavour. All C+C welcome

HQ
Mephiston
Honour Guard - Jump Packs, 3 x Melta gun, - 205
Troops
Assualt Squad ten marines - power fist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - powerfist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - lightening claw,infernous pistol, flamer, flamer.215
Elites
Sanguinary Priest x 2 jump packs - 150
Fast attack
Vanguard vets 5 marines - jump packs,
2 x powersword, - 195
Total - 1500

I think this is a perfectly servicable list. Lacking long-range shooting will be a problem against armies with Fast vehicles, but otherwise you should be fine.

Mephiston isn't the best fit, though, since you will probably want to deep strike a lot of the time.

The core of the list is very good. Agreed about Mephiston though...I think he's a lot harder to hide when you don't have tanks around for cover. But I'm sure you will find him fun to use.

If he doesn't work out for you, swap him out for a Librarian.

I'm not a fan of infernus pistols. Take meltabombs, another PW with the VV, or the 4th melta for the HG.

As has been said swap the IP for another melta in the HG. If you want a SC I think Dante would be a better fit for this army. A librarian with a JP would be the best. At the price of Mephy you could take 2 of them

You will need to put mephiston as far up the board as possible out of LOS.

Also I would prefer 4 plasma guns on the honour guard, some things need to be shot at, You already have melta for tanks.

The flamer marines may need a meltabomb.

The vanguard should have powerfist as if they are charged by a dread they will just die, or to lesser extent a monster or a t4 multiple wound model.
Also I would give them meltabombs, this means if you land with only tanks about you can do some damage.

So to save these points I suppose drop inf. pistol as he has such a small range you can not really drop in range, change claw to powerweapon as it has an extra attack, then maybe mephiston for the 2 jump pack librarians, I am liking blood lance at the moment by the way.

Really good list

So this list has basically stemmed from this list.

HQ
Librarian - Jump pack, rage and sheild, - 125
Librarian - Jump pack, rage and sheild - 125
Honour Guard - Jump Packs, 3 x Melta gun, - 205
Troops
Assualt Squad ten marines - power fist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - powerfist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - powerfist, melta, melta.235
Elites
Sanguinary Priest x 2 jump packs - 150
Fast attack
Vanguard vets 5 marines - jump packs,
2 x powersword, - 195
Total - 1505

Obviously there is a few subtle differences, two Libs, not really to bothered with in a non-competitive/fun play list, so I think a SC is the way to go and I just put Meph in there because he happened to be the cost of two Libs. But I'm thinking either Astorath or Dante? I've played with Dante more than Astorath so I'm still wanting to give him a go. The debate between the extra attack of the power weapon, or the re-roll to wounds on the lightning claw is a big decision. I think that the lightning claw is more benefitial. All though if someone could math-hammer it, that would be awesome. And seven Meltas at 1500 points I think should just about cover me, however maybe if I save points by dropping Meph, I'll stick some Melta-bombs, or a powerfist in somewhere.

Cheers for the advice guys

What I like about these lists is that you can drop most of the SCs in it and give it a go. Try them one at a time and use what you think is most fun. And if you ever change your mind to do a tourny, use the double librarian. Easy peasy.

If I had to pick one, I'd go Dante and give him the HG squad. Deep Strike, obviously.

The LC vs PW is closer than you think. I've seen some mathhammer and it leans towards the LC. But it is close enough that if you have PW bits and don't want to go searching for a LC, don't sweat it. YMMV.

reps0l wrote:
The LC vs PW is not really as close as you think. I've seen mathhammer and it leans towards the LC. But it close enough that if you have PW bits and don't want to go searching for a LC, don't sweat it. YMMV.

Well to be fair, I was personally leaning towards the lightning claw any way, just because its cooler, I have both options, and they are magnetised. I made my self a Lightning claw using some knifes from the Space marine Sprues, cut in half, and then mounted on the back of a spare powerfist, using GS.

Nice man, good idea. I wrote that wrong...I meant to say LC vs PW is closer than you think. I'll go back and edit.

You could put in 2 lightning claws, and have the best of both worlds - the +1 attack of the power weapon and the rerolls to wound from the Lightning Claws.

Personally, I think it should just be an option to take a pair of them for the same cost as 2 of them would be alone, rather than having the option to just take one. If you're only going to take one CCW, then go with the power weapon - the extra attack is about as good as rerolling misses to begin with.

Vs. MEQ:
With bp/pw:
4 attacks on the charge
2 hits (on 4+)
1 wound (on 4+)

With bp/lc:
3 attacks on the charge
1.5 hits (on 4+)
.75 hits (on reroll, 4+)
2.25 hits (overall)
1.125 wounds (on 4+)

With lc/lc:
4 attacks on the charge
2 hits (on 4+)
1 hit (on reroll, 4+)
3 hits (overall)
1.5 wound (on 4+)

That's just my napkin math, but I've been listhammering long enough to trust it fairly well

Dual lightning claws > pistol+lightning claw = pistol+power weapon

I ran the numbers exactly a while back. On the charge, the numbers are pretty much in the Lightning Claw's favor. It's significantly better against higher T, and never worse than a push in the scenarios I considered. That said, the benefit is at best on the order of .2 kills per CC round, so it may not be worth going crazy to get LC bits.

Going with 2 LCs is not the best of both worlds, as it is significantly more expensive and costs you a Bolt Pistol. Also, recall that a Lightning Claw gives you a re-roll To Wound, not To Hit. Against WS4 T4, there's no difference in practice, but it significantly affects the result otherwise.

MrEconomics wrote:I ran the numbers exactly a while back. On the charge, the numbers are pretty much in the Lightning Claw's favor. It's significantly better against higher T, and never worse than a push in the scenarios I considered. That said, the benefit is at best on the order of .2 kills per CC round, so it may not be worth going crazy to get LC bits.

Going with 2 LCs is not the best of both worlds, as it is significantly more expensive and costs you a Bolt Pistol. Also, recall that a Lightning Claw gives you a re-roll To Wound, not To Hit. Against WS4 T4, there's no difference in practice, but it significantly affects the result otherwise.

Thanks Mr. E, those are close to the numbers I saw...gets the same point across. Ideally 2 LCs would be a nice setup, but for 30 pts no thank you.

So the game got up'd to 2000 points, and I thought sod it, I'll go mad, and went with this.

HQ
Astorath
Commander Dante
Honour Guard - Jump Packs, 4 x Melta gun, - 215
Troops
Assualt Squad ten marines - power fist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - powerfist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - powerfist, melta, melta. 235
Assualt Squad ten marines - lightening claw,flamer, flamer, Meltabomb 220
Elites
Sanguinary Priest x 2 jump packs - 150
Fast attack
Vanguard vets 6 marines - jump packs,
4x powersword, powerfist 265
Total - 2000

Or.... I could run this bad boy...

HQ
Astorath - 220
Reclusiarch Jump Pack - 155
Troops
10 Death company - Jump Packs, PF, TH, IP x 2 435
Lemartes - 150
10 Death company - Jump Packs PF, PF, IP x 2 430
10 Death Company - PW x 5 275
Death Co. Dreadnought - blood talons, h.flamer - 135
Heavy Support
Stormraven - TLLC TLMM 200
Total - 2000

Are you jumping or DoA? If jumping, you really need a librarian with shield. DoA, the list is fine. You almost have 25% of your points in 2 special characters.

List #1 total is correct but I think your VV squad is 230 pts. I'd add more bodies to your VV squad with the extra points. With all the melta guns you have, I would also drop all the meltabombs to get more VV bodies then VV PWs.

I've adjusted the list slightly and editted it into the post above, what you guys think? And yes I will probably be DoA, but even then for non-competitive play, I find Libs a bit meh, don't get me wrong they are very good at what they do, and are a vital part of a competitive Blood Angels list, but they are very meh.