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Alright! here is my new Codex Space Marine list im running:


HQ:
Captain Novem (Cato)-200p
Librarian ShadeFire (powers nullzone, something else)-100p
Elites:
Sternguard “Echo” squad (+3 sternguard, x7 combi-guns, one plasma rifle, Rhino)-275p
Troops:
10-man tactical squad, “Charlie” (melta-gun and rocket launcher, rhino-220p
10-man tactical squad “Foxtrot” (melta gun/lascannon, rhinos, cato's tankhunter)-230p
Fast Attack:
“sandstorm squadron” (x2 landspeeder typhoons, separate)- 180p
attack bike (multimelta)-50p
Heavy support:
x3 Autocannon HB predators-255p

total
1,510



Right now All I have is the HQ's, the sternguard and the 20 tactical marines as my base amount of points. I will get the attack bike probably thursday and I alread have a typhoon and a predator. I am debateing weather or not to put lascannons on the pred because I need more anti infantry dakka (and a lot less points). I am giving foxtrot squad the tankhunter rule from cato also.

I don't think Cato is worth it, if you're looking for a Character Pedro Kantor would be a nice addition to the sternguard unit allowing them to hold objectives, the Tacs are fine but you might want to consider taking a power fist just incase, but not essential.

I think you should drop the bike, it looks too out of place here and can easily give away a KP to the enemy, it won't be a very reliable suicide unit if that's what you were planning.

While the Librarian is cheap, he's not really worth it as he doesn't work with your units. I'd look at dropping him, i think you could make a great fluffy sternguard list here, but please inform me on what your looking for so i can help point you in the right direction!

Here's a list i would reccommend:

HQ:

Pedro Kantor 175

Troops:

10 Tactical Marines 235
Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Power Fist, Rhino

10 Tactical Marines 235
Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Power Fist, Rhino

Elites:

7 Sternguard 255
5 Combi Meltas, 2 Heavy Flamers, Rhino


Fast Attack:

2 Land Speeder Typhoons 180

2 Land Speeder Typhoons 180

Heavy Support:

Predator 85
Heavy Bolters

Predator 85
Heavy Bolters

1430/1500

70 Points to play with here, you could swap the preds for Vindicators, but not sure if you wanted to keep the models, vindicators are versatile and will do a good job, your Typhoons can take care of the long range anti tank.

I've tried to keep it based on the models you have whilst keeping it effective, but i'm not sure what kind of list you're going for.

Hope this helps!

I would take out a hq and put in a tactical squad, otherwise I would find a way to add a scout squad or get pedro in the army, because at this points game, I think you need at least one more scoring unit.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:I don't think Cato is worth it, if you're looking for a Character Pedro Kantor would be a nice addition to the sternguard unit allowing them to hold objectives, the Tacs are fine but you might want to consider taking a power fist just incase, but not essential.

I think you should drop the bike, it looks too out of place here and can easily give away a KP to the enemy, it won't be a very reliable suicide unit if that's what you were planning.

While the Librarian is cheap, he's not really worth it as he doesn't work with your units. I'd look at dropping him, i think you could make a great fluffy sternguard list here, but please inform me on what your looking for so i can help point you in the right direction!

Here's a list i would reccommend:

HQ:

Pedro Kantor 175

Troops:

10 Tactical Marines 235
Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Power Fist, Rhino

10 Tactical Marines 235
Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Power Fist, Rhino

Elites:

7 Sternguard 255
5 Combi Meltas, 2 Heavy Flamers, Rhino


Fast Attack:

2 Land Speeder Typhoons 180

2 Land Speeder Typhoons 180

Heavy Support:

Predator 85
Heavy Bolters

Predator 85
Heavy Bolters

1430/1500

70 Points to play with here, you could swap the preds for Vindicators, but not sure if you wanted to keep the models, vindicators are versatile and will do a good job, your Typhoons can take care of the long range anti tank.

I've tried to keep it based on the models you have whilst keeping it effective, but i'm not sure what kind of list you're going for.

Hope this helps!

Ehhh I already tried pedro and in every game I played with him I got my arse handed to me. I only played two games with cato so idk if it would be that good, but he already killed an archon and survived longer than pedro ever did and killed more than him. Plus I think his tank hunter rule would be better for my force than scouring sternguard (who never once held an objective in any game) also I took the librarian for A: force dome B: nullzone C: gate of infinity (granted I can only use two but oh well)

Scouts never really worked for me. besides one of the (many) tactics thread I put condemned the snipers.

Vindicators will always will get poped first turn if you can only afford one.


The bike... yea it may be an easy KP, but hey, 50 points at 25 bucks plus I can maybe take it in a bike squad some day

One more thing: I am also playing around with taking away a tactical squad's melta gun and lascannon to take a power weapon on the sergeant (wait for it) and have cato give him counter attack, but I would only field that against nids or orks


With the things I have, can you give me tactical advice?

I find that pedro's survivability isn't that great. I only use him for his orbital and the benefits he gives the army. After that Ipretty much use him as a sergeant with a powerfist.

I like my commanders with survivability too although for games below 1500, I dont know what I should do. Should I get rid of a tactical squad, put in a cheeper rocket launcher scout squad and use some extra points on another sternguard squad? Should I take out cato (for now) maybe add a cheaper captain or just roll with a libarian or get rid of the libarian and take cato? or take an epistolary?

And can anyone give any advice for MM tactics? thanks for all the help before, sorry I was too stubborn to work things around.

Below 1500 (like 1250 and below), get a non-special character, keep the tactical squads.

Taking the advice from others, here is my new list for 1,180 (230?)

HQ:
Librarian (episolary, force dome/smite/ avenger and nullzone/gate of infinity)-150p

Elites:
Sternguard (9 man, x1 plasma rifle, x8 combi-guns, lightning claw, rhino)-320p

Troops:
Troop 1- Tactical squad (x10 man, melta gun, lascannon, rhino)-230p
Troop 2- Tactical squad (x10 man, melta gun, rocket launcher, rhino)-220p
Troop 3- Scout squad (x5 man, Rocket launcher, bolters)-85p

Fast attack:
Typhoon-90p
(maybe attack bike, already have a model for it)

Heavy support:
Predator (HB)-85p



How does this look? I am playing around with the libby's powers, and wondering if that extra sternguard would be worth it.

I reckon that this is an alright list, though I wouldn't bother putting a single plasma gun in the sternguard squad.
Also, if you took out the either the land speeder and predator, or the land speeder and scouts or the predator and scouts, the list would be a pretty effective 1000 list.

BaneGuard wrote:I reckon that this is an alright list, though I wouldn't bother putting a single plasma gun in the sternguard squad.
Also, if you took out the either the land speeder and predator, or the land speeder and scouts or the predator and scouts, the list would be a pretty effective 1000 list.

1005pts actually Those models I will add if my oppent wants to play a little higher. and people where right, the land speeder MM/HF is more effective than the attack bike especially since my last game the bike was killed turn one. and I just added the plasma gun for extra punch against anything (my GW is marine heavy GW)

And I had an idea when I do take cato, should I take a drop pod and MM for the tankhunting squad? I kinda have trouble getting them to the mark x-x

Here is my 1500 pt list:
HQ:
Cato-200p
Librarian-150p

Elites:
Sternguard squad (+3 sternguard, x7 combi-guns, one plasma rifle, Rhino, dozer blade))-300p

Troops:
Tactical squad "Tank hunter" (10-man tactical squad “Foxtrot” (melta gun/lascannon, rhinos)-230p
Tactical squad (10-man, rocket launcher, melta gun, rhino)-220p
Scout squad (rocket launcher, snipers)-85p

Fast attack:
x2 heavy flamer/Multi melta speeders-140
x1 typhoon-90p

Heavy support:
dakka predator-85 p

total: 1500pts

Recently, to anyone working on vanilla marines, I recommend they read these battle reports:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436105.page

This has an excellent list, doesn't use Vulkan (instead making good use of Combat Tactics), and kicks butt.

Mannahnin wrote:Recently, to anyone working on vanilla marines, I recommend they read these battle reports:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436105.page

This has an excellent list, doesn't use Vulkan (instead making good use of Combat Tactics), and kicks butt.

That looks like a good list

How does mine look?

I think your list is good Tiger9gamer. For your sternguard, have you considered 5x combi-melta, 1x meltagun, 2x combi-plasma?

That way when you move up near the target, you can rapid fire 4 plasma shots from your Rhino. Next turn you can pop the guys out, move, shoot a bunch of combi-melta + 1 plasma pistol of Cato + Librarian Null Zone and then still be able to assault.

Another option you can consider is dropping the multi-melta speeders and go for a Rifledread. The extra 15 points or so can be used to buy combi-melta for tactical squad sergents.

I like it, the only issue is the scouts, for me, when i have used them or seen them been used, they never do enough. they may hold an objective but they easily get moved off once fire is put on them even with their cover save and the assault phase is where they will get beat, i would suggest a 5 man tac squad in a razorback if you can find the points.

Not bad, but I don't think you need all of those combi-weapons on the Sternguard.

Hey again!! a veteran at my GW (the manager actually) helped me with a thousand point list, and I want to know what you guys think too. He said that this list will provide "a lot of targets with a lot of things shooting" tell me what you think! and after I put the base list ill put 500 pts I came up with to make 1500

1000pts:

HQ: Epistolary librarian-150pts
Troop 1: 10 man tactical squad, melta gun, rocket launcher, rhino-210pts
Troop 2: 10 man tactical squad, melta gun, lascannon, rhino-220pts
Troop 3: 5 man tactical squad, combi-melta, lasback-175pts
Elite: Dreadnaught w/ cc arm and multimelta-105pts
Fast: typhoon-90pts
Fast: Attack Bike-50pts

Okay, I kinda like this list, but It's missing my beloved sternies so for a 1,500pt list I'll add:

HQ: Cato-200pts
Elites: 6 Sternguard vets w/ 5 combi guns and 1 plasma rifle, Rhino-215pts
Heavy: Dakka predator-85pts

total:500


Does this look good? I will try to game tommorow so I will try it out

I would not have Sicarius and a librarian at 1500 points.
I think the only problem you would have is killing hordes.

focusing on the 1000pt list, what would the tactics be? I was thinking getting rid of a rocket launcher and give the guy a bolt gun and run a large 10 man squad forward in a rhino with the libby, melta gunning things and moving forward with the dread, the attack bike and the other 5 man squad, leaving behind the lascannon half, the lasback and the typhoon to shoot at things. solid plan? enough dakka dakka and pew pew?

Rocket launcher is free. Take it always. Bolters are just flashlights that will kill 1-3 models per game top.

leohart wrote:Rocket launcher is free. Take it always. Bolters are just flashlights that will kill 1-3 models per game top.

Maybe a multimelta instead for the moving up squad? can I combat squad mid-game?

Nope, only when you deploy. Not even in reserve. Multi-melta is not good because it takes a short movement to get out of its half-range. At that point, it becomes a shorter range version of the Missle Launcher AND don't have the ability to shoot frag missile to counter hordes.

leohart wrote:Nope, only when you deploy. Not even in reserve. Multi-melta is not good because it takes a short movement to get out of its half-range. At that point, it becomes a shorter range version of the Missle Launcher AND don't have the ability to shoot frag missile to counter hordes.

all right. but does the tactics look sound? should I have the dread leading the way to attract fire? should the attack bike wait back and then shoot forward to wait till things get close? should I only have 10 guys move forward or 15?

It depends on what you are playing against. This experience will gain with more games you play.

But generally, I suggest

Turn 1: Think about which of his units is the most dangerous, move your units to counter that unit while staying covered from his other units.

e.g. He has a Land raider crusader coming toward you. He also has some other things in the back shooting at you. Move your meltagun toward his tank making use of terrain so that you have cover from his heavy support.

Turn 2: He is ready to strike now. Aim to start taking down his big bad units. OR tarpit them. Dreadnought is a good tarpit unit. Attack bike is a good tarpit unit. He will have something that doesn't have powerfist/power weapon, shoot them and assault them to keep them from firing.

Turn 3: Think about the objective. You need to capture the objectives, or maybe the objective is kill point at which point, identify the easiest kill points and take them

Turn 4: Move into position for winning on turn 5.

Turn 5: Win. The best way to play is to aim for winning at turn 5.

There are a lot of other tactics that you will learn as you play more against veteran players. Look up how to effectively use combat tactics special rule of Space Marine. Look up on how to use vehicle to block shooting, assaulting. Also, look at refused flank deployment.

leohart wrote:It depends on what you are playing against. This experience will gain with more games you play.

But generally, I suggest

Turn 1: Think about which of his units is the most dangerous, move your units to counter that unit while staying covered from his other units.

e.g. He has a Land raider crusader coming toward you. He also has some other things in the back shooting at you. Move your meltagun toward his tank making use of terrain so that you have cover from his heavy support.

Turn 2: He is ready to strike now. Aim to start taking down his big bad units. OR tarpit them. Dreadnought is a good tarpit unit. Attack bike is a good tarpit unit. He will have something that doesn't have powerfist/power weapon, shoot them and assault them to keep them from firing.

Turn 3: Think about the objective. You need to capture the objectives, or maybe the objective is kill point at which point, identify the easiest kill points and take them

Turn 4: Move into position for winning on turn 5.

Turn 5: Win. The best way to play is to aim for winning at turn 5.

There are a lot of other tactics that you will learn as you play more against veteran players. Look up how to effectively use combat tactics special rule of Space Marine. Look up on how to use vehicle to block shooting, assaulting. Also, look at refused flank deployment.

Alright thanks a ton! I needed to know what to look up for my army. I'll ask more questions when I have them again. have a nice day!

Let us know how the list goes.

Which GW store, pm me if you can not announce it.
If you want to use Cato I think infiltrate skill is the one to go for. How about the following, which is based your original list:
200 Cato
100 Librarian

200 8 snipers, Telion, ML
185 tactical squad, melta, lascannon, fist, infiltrate.
[This uses Cato well enough and keeps combat tactics]

345 10 sternguard 8 combimelta, 2 heavy flamers, drop pod

180 2 typhoons
240 2 pred with las/autocannon.

MFletch wrote:Which GW store, pm me if you can not announce it.
If you want to use Cato I think infiltrate skill is the one to go for. How about the following, which is based your original list:
200 Cato
100 Librarian

200 8 snipers, Telion, ML
185 tactical squad, melta, lascannon, fist, infiltrate.
[This uses Cato well enough and keeps combat tactics]

345 10 sternguard 8 combimelta, 2 heavy flamers, drop pod

180 2 typhoons
240 2 pred with las/autocannon.

Hmmmm thats a pretty good list ^^ what would the infiltrate tactics be?

oh, and about my game, I just had a fought against necrons...





Those just wouldnt stay down!!!

shooting gets 5 wounds, all get up. same thing next turn. when I get into combat (and avoid mindshackle) it's just *stab* resurection *stab!* resurection *Stab stab stab!!!* lol resurection.


Blarg! but anyways my new list worked really well, It felt better and like there was more I could do except when I couldnt get more than one killpoint x-x Although he ran an overlord with a resurection orb and a ghost arc. It was still fun despite my gripeing

I versed necrons myself today and found myself very agitated by them. If you want my advice, the best way to deal with necrons I find is to shoot every single unit you have able and appropriate at one enemy unit. As soon as they aree all dead and there's none of them left to get back up, move on to the next unit, until your destroyed or they are.
Tactical marines and anything else very anti-infantry are good for this.

BaneGuard wrote:I versed necrons myself today and found myself very agitated by them. If you want my advice, the best way to deal with necrons I find is to shoot every single unit you have able and appropriate at one enemy unit. As soon as they aree all dead and there's none of them left to get back up, move on to the next unit, until your destroyed or they are.
Tactical marines and anything else very anti-infantry are good for this.

I thought you were supposed to get into h2h with them x-x

Also, they don't have very good anti-tank except for a few lords with the 2D6 penetration weapon. They have a lot of tesla weapons that cause a massive amount of wounds though.

So, put all your guys in Rhino and zoom foward.