Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

500p:

First Platoon: 280p
PCS
IPS
IPS
HWS: 3x Autocannon
HWS: 3x Autocannon

Second Platoon: 220p
PCS: Power Weapon, 3x Flamer
IPS: Power Weapon, Commissar, Power Weapon
IPS: Power Weapon

First Platoon is a defensive gunline meant to babysit the Autocannon teams. Unfortunately "Bring it down" is impossible to include because of the rules with which we play 500p games. Second Platoon's purpose is to "Move! Move! Move!" towards the enemy, and then "First rank fire! Second rank fire!" before assaulting. All that is under ideal circumstances of course. I believe it will be possible to change things up as situations arise. Alternately I'll remove one autocannon team to be able to afford one harder hitting HWT, and then add Commissar and special weapons (meltas) to that same platoon.

1000p:

CCS: Autocannon 60p

First Platoon: 425p
PCS: Al'Rahem, 4x Meltagun, Chimera
IPS: Melta, Chimera
IPS: Melta, Chimera

Second Platoon: 200p
PCS
IPS: Power Weapon, Commissar, Power Weapon
IPS: Power Weapon, HWT: Mortar

Third Platoon: 315p
PCS
IPS: Power Weapon, Commissar, Power Weapon, HWT: Mortar
IPS: Power Weapon, HWT: Mortar
HWT: 3x Lascannon

Here I can "Bring it down!", and will use the CCS to order the lascannon teams around. Al'Rahem is a "backup" tank hunter. His platoons will respond to enemy movement. The mortars in the "assault platoons" is mostly filler, but I also heard it was possible to get some placement advantages by using large bases in assaults. I'd like to explore this. If anyone has any advice on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

1500:

CCS1: Straken, 4x flamer, Bodyguard, Bodyguard. 195p

CCS2 50p

First Platoon: 470p
PCS: HWT: Autocannon
IPS: Power Weapon, Commissar, Power Weapon, HWT: Mortar
IPS: Power Weapon, HWT: Mortar
HWS: 3x Lascannon
HWS: 3x Autocannon
HWS: 3x Autocannon

Second Platoon: 425p
PCS: Al'Rahem, 4x Meltagun, Chimera
IPS: Meltagun, Chimera
IPS: Meltagun, Chimera

Third Platoon: 360p
PCS
IPS: Power Weapon, Commissar, Power Weapon
IPS: Power Weapon
IPS: Power Weapon, Commissar, Power Weapon
IPS: Power Weapon

CCS1 will lead the charge across the table. I will try to pack Third Platoon, and possibly the IPS's from First Platoon, around Straken to make the most of his CA and FC bubbles. CCS2 will order (and somewhat babysit) the heavy weapons squads of First Platoon. Al'Rahem's Second Platoon will be backup tank hunters, work as a distraction and if possible act as herders. Third Platoon will be the stress factor for the enemy, "charging up the middle" (as Solomon Demeter would say) along with Straken.

Anyway. Any constructive criticism on any of the three lists would be greatly appreciated. I'm not the most experienced player, so I've yet to try out much of this. In fact, the only experience I have with infantry horde lists for IG is the 500p list which worked exceptionally well against MEQ (then with missile launchers instead of autocannons.) Any comments would, like I said, be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

Hi

I assume at 500 you have a no HQ rule?

500
It's been a while since I played 500, but you certainly have alot of bodies and at theose point there shouldn't anything too horible. You've got a PCS and two Inf squads with nothing but flashlights, not something I've ever doen. I was very much brought up in the Guard school of thinking that involves never wasting a specials slot. You might struggle if anyone bring any AV12+ (not wishing to start the traditional HWS arguments) but AC just aren't as reliable as I personally would like.

1000
Looks generally ok to me, I might not bother with the mortars in the squads. Mortars are the HWT I think do best in HWS, because you can hide them.

1500
If you have the army already I'd give it a go just to see how it does, but i'm not convinced man. I assume you plan on having third platoon split into two blobs. This just isn't as scary as you think, at 1500 point there is just too much that will slaughter them. I love blobs and field one in my current 1750, but a 20 man blob running across the board will die the fact you have two will only slightly increase their survivability. Things like massed bolter fire, Bladstorm, Black Templar Terminators with Lightning claws are just a few of the things that have wiped out one of my blobs in a turn.

Inf Guard is a really hard side to play well, I have to admitt I have not mastered it. last time I tried I unfortunatley went against a Eldar Tournament army, it did not end well.

Hey SpankHammer. Thanks for going through the lists and taking the time to comment.

SpankHammer III wrote:Hi

I assume at 500 you have a no HQ rule?

No models with more than two wounds (which excludes the plain CCS). No vehicles with more than a total of 32 AP. I don't know for sure, but I think no models with 2+ saves.

SpankHammer III wrote:
500
It's been a while since I played 500, but you certainly have alot of bodies and at theose point there shouldn't anything too horible. You've got a PCS and two Inf squads with nothing but flashlights, not something I've ever doen. I was very much brought up in the Guard school of thinking that involves never wasting a specials slot. You might struggle if anyone bring any AV12+ (not wishing to start the traditional HWS arguments) but AC just aren't as reliable as I personally would like.

Since I didn't specify, you weren't to know about the armor limit. I prefer missile launchers personally, because of str 8 and the option to fire frag, but it was recommended to me to change them out in favor of autocannons by someone here on Dakka. I haven't played enough with either to be able to make an informed decision without input.

Regarding the squads with all flashlights, I've personally had great success with them by massing them. 40-60 shots will generate some casualties unless Lady Luck has completely abandoned you (me). Flashlights are nowhere near as effective as most of the special weapons, though, so I see what you mean. In the ideal situation, First platoon won't see much action, though, but if the enemy gets that close, the IPSs are there as a buffer between the enemy and the HWSs.

SpankHammer III wrote:
1000
Looks generally ok to me, I might not bother with the mortars in the squads. Mortars are the HWT I think do best in HWS, because you can hide them.

I wasn't planning on firing the mortars in the ideal battle. They are there to fill out the last 15p for which I couldn't find anything else worth taking. Which, I'm sure, is a major error on my part. However, like I said in the first post, I have heard that it's possible to achieve a positional advantage in assaults, but I don't know the details of this, so my plan was to experiment with it. If I removed the mortars, do you have a suggestion as to what I could spend the points on which would be more advantageous?

SpankHammer III wrote:
1500
If you have the army already I'd give it a go just to see how it does, but i'm not convinced man. I assume you plan on having third platoon split into two blobs. This just isn't as scary as you think, at 1500 point there is just too much that will slaughter them. I love blobs and field one in my current 1750, but a 20 man blob running across the board will die the fact you have two will only slightly increase their survivability. Things like massed bolter fire, Bladstorm, Black Templar Terminators with Lightning claws are just a few of the things that have wiped out one of my blobs in a turn.

Inf Guard is a really hard side to play well, I have to admitt I have not mastered it. last time I tried I unfortunatley went against a Eldar Tournament army, it did not end well.

The idea is that I have several things that are more or less at the same threat level, which would force the enemy to split his force to respond to my split force. Which in turn would, essentially, create several smaller sized battles, which the infantry-heavy guard list seems to excel at. I'm sure that I've overlooked some critical element, but I also expect that it's a matter of opponent and opposing force organization. The ouflanking element with Al'Rahem, several multi-lasers, meltas and flashlights, should also be a further distraction.

With this in mind, do you have any further thoughts? Am I a deluded fool to think this could possibly work? I really, really appreciate your comments, and I thank you for making the quick reply.

Hey Matey

no worries, it's not like i'm at work

No models with more than two wounds (which excludes the plain CCS). No vehicles with more than a total of 32 AP. I don't know for sure, but I think no models with 2+ saves.

Ah kind of kill team like, nice idea.

Since I didn't specify, you weren't to know about the armor limit. I prefer missile launchers personally, because of str 8 and the option to fire frag, but it was recommended to me to change them out in favor of autocannons by someone here on Dakka. I haven't played enough with either to be able to make an informed decision without input.

Regarding the squads with all flashlights, I've personally had great success with them by massing them. 40-60 shots will generate some casualties unless Lady Luck has completely abandoned you (me). Flashlights are nowhere near as effective as most of the special weapons, though, so I see what you mean. In the ideal situation, First platoon won't see much action, though, but if the enemy gets that close, the IPSs are there as a buffer between the enemy and the HWSs.

With the armor limit, AC make more sense. The extra shot will help with Guard BS, never been a huge fan OF ML to be honest with you always seemed to be a little bit too much of a jack of all trades to me.

Well at 500 with the rules you specified your probably right sheer wait of numbers will work in your favour. I wouldn't hold out for the ideal situation though always hit's the fan, all it takes is some outflanking/deepstriking.

I wasn't planning on firing the mortars in the ideal battle. They are there to fill out the last 15p for which I couldn't find anything else worth taking. Which, I'm sure, is a major error on my part. However, like I said in the first post, I have heard that it's possible to achieve a positional advantage in assaults, but I don't know the details of this, so my plan was to experiment with it. If I removed the mortars, do you have a suggestion as to what I could spend the points on which would be more advantageous?

Being a natural pessamist and a cynical old hector, I generally prepare my lists expecting the worst to happen, forgey about the ideal

Come on man we're guard there are laods of things you can spend 15points of rather than mortars. I personally, if I have the points, put melta bombs on my PW sergeants to add a little diversity to the unit plus means you will have something more than harsh language if you get assaulted by a dread/walker. I once tied up a 20 man guard blob with an armored sentinel. You even give the whole squad krak grenades or take a grenade launcher; Assault 24" Frag S3 Ap6, Krak S6 Ap4

Hell you can even get a Pintle mount for al'rahem ride. 15 points is a lot for guard.

The idea is that I have several things that are more or less at the same threat level, which would force the enemy to split his force to respond to my split force. Which in turn would, essentially, create several smaller sized battles, which the infantry-heavy guard list seems to excel at. I'm sure that I've overlooked some critical element, but I also expect that it's a matter of opponent and opposing force organization. The ouflanking element with Al'Rahem, several multi-lasers, meltas and flashlights, should also be a further distraction.

With this in mind, do you have any further thoughts? Am I a deluded fool to think this could possibly work? I really, really appreciate your comments, and I thank you for making the quick reply.

I don't claim to be a great tactician, hell I lose as much as I win (well generally do well against marines and lose to most every else because I don't know there Codex well enough or I just plain up) but I don't think it'll work. With Al'rahem in reserve he won't be an issue until at least turn two (maybe later) and might not even be on the right side of the board. So Turn 1 and 2 all the fire is going to be at the other platoons.

Target saturation only really work if the opponent panics, if they think reasonably they will focus on one platton at time. As it stands the pW blobs are only a threat to infantry and even ten not as big a threat as I think you think they are.

Blobs disppear fast against specialised combat units. They do well against thing like thunder hammer termies becasue they grind them down, but you give that termie lighting claws and preffered enemy you can lose 16 guard in one turn (happened to me). Anything which puts out a lot of shots/hits you need to worry about hell even one round of bolter at 12" will drop 8 guard not in cover.

Same goes for HWS, 3 T3 W2 models with Ld 6.

If i was playing against this list I would pound your HWS (starting with the LasC) until Alrahem turns up then target his command chimera with my anti tank.

Sorry if it comes across harsh, don't mean to be. Your list lacks a lot of the essentials. I got a lot of help when i started the hobby (from this site actually) and I still use it today.

Cover your bases - have something to deal with all the unit catergories (Av14, Av12+, Av10-11, horde, MEQ 3+ saves, TEQ 2+ saves, MC's) if you are building an alrounder list you need to have something that can cope with eack of these.

Redundancy is your friend - basically cover your bases twice

I hope this helps and i'm not going across like an ass or teaching you to suck lemons

SgtSixkilla wrote:The mortars in the "assault platoons" is mostly filler, but I also heard it was possible to get some placement advantages by using large bases in assaults. I'd like to explore this. If anyone has any advice on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

If you have the Mortar teams at the front of your blobs, then when you charge/are charged the size of the HWT base means that more of your models will be within 2" of the base, thus contributing to the fight. It can be hard to fit 20/30 models round normal sized bases within 2", especially if terrain gets in the way. The HWT allows you to easier accommodate the rest of the blob.

So I played a game with the 1500 list today. The game was a bit skewed as it was a 1v1v1 between myself as IG, one SM player and a GK player. We've played several 3 way games before, and they're always a bit difficult to figure out deployment areas on a rectangular table. The way we've done it is to split one long side in four equal bits and have two players deploy in the corner bits while one player deploys on a quarter in the middle of the table on the other side. Hard to explain.

This time, I drew the short straw and ended up on the center deployment. The way the terrain turned out meant that I was the meat in a space marine sandwich... Still, I didn't lose on killpoints. I didn't win, but I didn't lose, despite getting hammered from both sides by both SMs and GKs. Sure, they fought a bit amongst themselves, but the terrain meant they both got funneled in towards my lines.

In hind sight, I should have had more meltas. I should have had less bad luck on the dice. I rolled 1s more than any other result, by far. Most of my 5s and 6s came up when giving orders..

Considering I got ganged up on by two marine armies (one of which is MASSIVELY overpowered), I think I did pretty well. The sheer amount of wounds I had made it difficult for the marines to take out enough of them to make a serious dent in my army.

I would highly recommend freeing up some points to take an astropath. He will be your best friend when using Al'Rahem.

Nocturn wrote:I would highly recommend freeing up some points to take an astropath. He will be your best friend when using Al'Rahem.

Hey Nocturn,

Thanks for the suggestion. That hadn't even occurred to me. I'll give that a shot.

evilbishop wrote:
If you have the Mortar teams at the front of your blobs, then when you charge/are charged the size of the HWT base means that more of your models will be within 2" of the base, thus contributing to the fight. It can be hard to fit 20/30 models round normal sized bases within 2", especially if terrain gets in the way. The HWT allows you to easier accommodate the rest of the blob.

Hey Evilbishop,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn't get in a situation where that would had an impact, but I can see how it would be beneficial.

Thanks for the input both of you, as well as SpankHammer. It's all been very enlightening.

Glad I could help. Let us know how your next game turns out.

No worries man, glad to hear the list did ok. Three way sounds annoying as you already have the units i'd give the list a couple more trys and take notes on what works well.

I have to admitt I've got very complacent about my list recently, keep using the same one with a few minor changes. It pleases me when foot guard to well becuase they are my first love.