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So, i was thinking as I heat up leftover chinese food, hey, If Abbadon is the "Great Warmaster" of Chaos, leading legions out of the eye of terror, resulting each time in the deaths of entire worlds, the suffering of billions, and such fun things......why in the world hasn't he ascended to daemonhood? Is it due to his "Undivided" Stance on things? I was under the impression there were other undivided demon princes. Or is he just a huge failure at life/death, however you prefer to think about it.
Discuss

The 3.5 Codex says he's been offered Daemon Princedom multiple times but refused for some reason.

There ya go.

Well then, that answers that I suppose, I've never read the codex itself.
I thought demonhood was the ultimate goal for chaos servants. Any idea as to why he would refuse?

iGuy91 wrote:Well then, that answers that I suppose, I've never read the codex itself.
I thought demonhood was the ultimate goal for chaos servants. Any idea as to why he would refuse?

I assumed it was because Daemon Princedom makes you dependent on the Gods that gave you power. Abaddon doesn't like having a boss (as you can tell by him conquering all the Traitor Legions and completely ignoring their Primarchs) so he refuses.

He isn't a daemon because he turned down the offer.

LoneLictor wrote:

iGuy91 wrote:Well then, that answers that I suppose, I've never read the codex itself.
I thought demonhood was the ultimate goal for chaos servants. Any idea as to why he would refuse?

I assumed it was because Daemon Princedom makes you dependent on the Gods that gave you power. Abaddon doesn't like having a boss (as you can tell by him conquering all the Traitor Legions and completely ignoring their Primarchs) so he refuses.

I'm not so sure, because Lorgar is an undivided Daemon Prince, so he must not report to any one of the 4. In Abaddon's case, I would say it might be out of pride. He refuses to owe his power to anyone or anything.

The entry in the codex theorises that he refuses to relinquish his humanity until the Imperium is nothing but ashes. Seeing as he's seen the primarchs lose interest in their revenge as they ascended to daemonhood, I guess he just might not want to risk losing his hatred of the Emperor until he's succeeded.

Orblivion wrote:He isn't a daemon because he turned down the offer.

LoneLictor wrote:

iGuy91 wrote:Well then, that answers that I suppose, I've never read the codex itself.
I thought demonhood was the ultimate goal for chaos servants. Any idea as to why he would refuse?

I assumed it was because Daemon Princedom makes you dependent on the Gods that gave you power. Abaddon doesn't like having a boss (as you can tell by him conquering all the Traitor Legions and completely ignoring their Primarchs) so he refuses.

I'm not so sure, because Lorgar is an undivided Daemon Prince, so he must not report to any one of the 4.

Or, maybe he has to report to all four and the reason he hasn't done anything in the last 10,000 years is because he's constantly having to fill out all of his paperwork in quadruplicate.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Orblivion wrote:He isn't a daemon because he turned down the offer.

LoneLictor wrote:

iGuy91 wrote:Well then, that answers that I suppose, I've never read the codex itself.
I thought demonhood was the ultimate goal for chaos servants. Any idea as to why he would refuse?

I assumed it was because Daemon Princedom makes you dependent on the Gods that gave you power. Abaddon doesn't like having a boss (as you can tell by him conquering all the Traitor Legions and completely ignoring their Primarchs) so he refuses.

I'm not so sure, because Lorgar is an undivided Daemon Prince, so he must not report to any one of the 4.

Or, maybe he has to report to all four and the reason he hasn't done anything in the last 10,000 years is because he's constantly having to fill out all of his paperwork in quadruplicate.

Seems legit. That would be utter chaos after all.

Easy, just like Horus he wants to replace the Emperor.

The issue with ascending to daemonhood is you become embroiled of the politics of the warp. There's a lot more daemon princes and independent entities beyond the conscousness of the four great chaos gods. That's why you don't see the primarchs constantly on the attack, or even building up their forces all that much. They're just as much involved in the political landscape of the warp as they were with the material landscape before their raise to daemonhood.

Abbadon doesn't want to lose himself to that, at least not yet, as he knows it will only distract him from his goal of destroying the Imperium.

Well, the Chaos Gods might feel that the guy who has continually failed in reaching his goals; Let the galaxy burn, kill the Emperor, revenge the defeat Horus or have a really meaningful impact on the Imperium, might not really be daemonhood material.

I guess the only reason that Abbadon hasn't been killed, turned into a spawn or thrown out on his ear, is because he has an amazing PR department.
"Yes, really....They have offered me daemonhood, but I was like; "no way, dudes. I really wanna keep fighting!".....totally, man...it's true!....I totally told them off!".


...

Steelmage99 wrote:Well, the Chaos Gods might feel that the guy who has continually failed in reaching his goals; Let the galaxy burn, kill the Emperor, revenge the defeat Horus or have a really meaningful impact on the Imperium, might not really be daemonhood material.

I guess the only reason that Abbadon hasn't been killed, turned into a spawn or thrown out on his ear, is because he has an amazing PR department.
"Yes, really....They have offered me daemonhood, but I was like; "no way, dudes. I really wanna keep fighting!".....totally, man...it's true!....I totally told them off!".


...

Nope. Its canon that he has denied Daemon Princedom multiple times and that the Chaos Gods support him fully.

where does everyone get this stuff about him failing 13 times?
I have read the fluff and dont see that failures lol, only sucess after sucess towards his goals

All his crusades are done.

He denies Daemon Princedom because:

A.) Horus didn't become a Daemon Prince when he nearly brought down the Imperium. Abaddon is very, very sensitive about seeming worthy of Horus' legacy (see his conversation in Soul Hunter where he only gets pissed off when someone questions him as being worthy to lead the Black Legion)

B.) It has its own disadvantages. DP's are concerned with the Immaterium and do most of their stuff there. Abaddon is concerned solely with the Materium. DP's can't stay in the Materium very long without complicated rituals, and this limits their ability to operate. A major reason Angron lost the 1st Armageddon War was because his forces had to erect Khorne Monuments constantly to keep him materialized in our reality, instead of finishing off the Imperial forces.

Formosa wrote:where does everyone get this stuff about him failing 13 times?
I have read the fluff and dont see that failures lol, only sucess after sucess towards his goals

This.

The only failures among Abbadon's black crusades were his attacks on Cadia. But only his 1st, 2nd, and 13th were direct attacks on Cadia. All of the other crusades had different objectives, the vast majority of which were successful.

jareddm wrote:

Formosa wrote:where does everyone get this stuff about him failing 13 times?
I have read the fluff and dont see that failures lol, only sucess after sucess towards his goals

This.

The only failures among Abbadon's black crusades were his attacks on Cadia. But only his 1st, 2nd, and 13th were direct attacks on Cadia. All of the other crusades had different objectives, the vast majority of which were successful.

yep this is what i have read, i chalk it up to interwebs trying to be cool by saying he sucks lol

as for the 1st BC, i see that as a sucess too, as it made the fragmented legions fight for a common cause, showing the imp that they still had teeth

Formosa wrote:

jareddm wrote:

Formosa wrote:where does everyone get this stuff about him failing 13 times?
I have read the fluff and dont see that failures lol, only sucess after sucess towards his goals

This.

The only failures among Abbadon's black crusades were his attacks on Cadia. But only his 1st, 2nd, and 13th were direct attacks on Cadia. All of the other crusades had different objectives, the vast majority of which were successful.

yep this is what i have read, i chalk it up to interwebs trying to be cool by saying he sucks lol

It also doesn't help that the successes are glossed over and the failures emphasised in GW's marketing strategy of 'Loyalist SM FTW!'

as for the 1st BC, i see that as a sucess too, as it made the fragmented legions fight for a common cause, showing the imp that they still had teeth

As well as establishing the Black Legion as a major Traitor Legion again after spending decades being the weakest.

Also, the Traitor Legions have a hell of a job getting out of the Eye of Terror. Considering that the most heavily defended world EVAR happens to be in the way.

jareddm wrote:

Formosa wrote:where does everyone get this stuff about him failing 13 times?
I have read the fluff and dont see that failures lol, only sucess after sucess towards his goals

This.

The only failures among Abbadon's black crusades were his attacks on Cadia. But only his 1st, 2nd, and 13th were direct attacks on Cadia. All of the other crusades had different objectives, the vast majority of which were successful.

The 13th Black Crusade was declared by GW to be a minor win for Chaos at the end of the Eye of Terror campaign. Chaos holds more of Cadia than the Cadians. Abaddon is also shown outside of the Cadian Gate, in the Thesus Sector, with a once more operational Planetkiller ship as per the Apocalypse rulebook.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

The results of the major warzones of the Eye of Terror campaign from WD as is.