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2012/05/16 14:56:07
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
In 2000 GRRM wrote in an online Q&A (emphasis is his, not mine):
Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons? George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold. Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again? George_RR_Martin: Probably not.
And, in 1998 he wrote: "Lastly, some fans are reading too much into the scene in GAME OF THRONES where the dragons are born -- which is to say, it was never the case that all Targaryens are immune to all fire at all times."
So, it's pretty clear that they aren't immune to fire. The TV show is just over-focusing on things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/16 14:57:28
2012/05/16 15:15:49
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hazardous Harry wrote:I can't remember if it was only in the TV show, but wasn't she completely fine when she touched the smouldering hot eggs? And ESPECIALLY the case in the final book would imply that Dany is immune from fire permanently, not just during the dragon's birth.
The egg scene was TV show only.
2012/05/16 15:21:56
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hazardous Harry wrote:I can't remember if it was only in the TV show, but wasn't she completely fine when she touched the smouldering hot eggs? And ESPECIALLY the case in the final book would imply that Dany is immune from fire permanently, not just during the dragon's birth.
The egg scene was TV show only.
Still, the latest book has...
Spoiler:
Her hair all burnt off again, but herself pretty much untouched.
Yup. There's something going on with Dany and fire. But, what or why isn't entirely clear at this point.
Pointing to other characters that aren't immune to fire and claiming they aren't Targaryen isn't valid.
2012/05/16 15:34:12
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Mirri Maz Duur never cursed Dany with never having children again. The quote is:
A Game of Thrones wrote:"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
That's not exactly a curse. It's more of a prophecy
Spoilers for ADWD:
Spoiler:
Sun rising in the west and setting is Quentyn (with a Sun for a sigil) coming from the west and dying in the east.
Seas going dry refers to the Dothraki sea being in a bad drought.
The mountains blowing in the wind refers to the pyramids her dragons are turning to ash.
And, she either had a really heavy period or a miscarriage. So, her womb has quickened once again.
The only remaining piece is that she needs to bear a living child, and then Khal Drogo will return.
2012/05/18 14:03:56
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Totalwar1402 wrote:BTW its probably nothing, but about Jon Snows parentage
Spoiler:
I was reading the first book and theres a bit where Ned dreams of Lyanna saying 'Promise me' and Ned mentions that she wears a garland of pale blue flowers. Now I think I also remember Melisandre, that witch with Stannis making a prophecy of a blue rose growing out of the wall. I don't know, maybe theres some kind of metaphor about blue roses and Jon Snow coming of age at the Wall.
The actual prophecy comes from Dany's time at the House of the Undying. It's one of her visions.
It says:
Spoiler:
A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.
My analysis:
Spoiler:
The Blue Flower is linked to both Lyanna Stark and the tale of Bael the Bard. Bael eloped with a Stark and had a child with her. The wall is clearly referring to Jon. So, it indicated Jon is linked to Lyanna, and her running off with someone (Rhaegar is most likely).
In terms of it growing from the wall... I assume that is going to be pretty literal. Link it with Bran's vision, where "He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him." I think it's fairly clear that Jon is going to be placed in an ice cell in the wall, before he is reborn as Azor Ahai.
2012/05/18 16:04:44
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning.
Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.
That is all.
2012/05/18 16:48:55
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
1) He's dressed in all black.
2) He calls Sam "brother".
3) He knows secrets only known by the Watch.
4) The secrets he knows involve a really old and abandoned keep.
5) He is unable to cross the wall, due to some magical means.
6) His hands are cold and black.
7) He smells of death and decay.
8) Sam does not recognize him.
9) He hides his face from Bran and company.
10) He doesn't eat, sleep, etc.
11) His eyes are NOT the blue of the wights.
12) The Children refer to him being dead "a long time" (coming from something hundreds and hundreds of years old).
13) He can speak and reason.
14) He has control of or affinity to ravens.
15) He knows a strange, unknown language.
16) He has killed members of the Watch.
And, what can we deduce?
Spoiler:
Coldhands is/was a member of the Watch, and he is (un)dead. He's not exactly a wight, but he's incredibly similar to them.
How, exactly, he retained intelligence is an unanswered question. Perhaps he's being controlled or been granted a gift by an outside force through magical means. Perhaps the Children have an opposite to the Other's Wights and Coldhands is just one of them. And, perhaps Coldhands is a wight that was warged into, either by another warger or by himself (possibly warging into a familiar in the middle).
Benjen is the obvious candidate, except for numbers 4, 12, and 15. He's not quite old enough to be attached to the ancient knowledge and references. Benjen is almost too obvious, and could well be a red herring. He's been mentioned too many times to never be seen again, but that doesn't mean he's Coldhands. There's also the problem of the eyes (number 11). Benjen had blue eyes when alive. But, perhaps Sam meant that Coldhands doesn't have the unearthly blue that the wights have, even though he had natural blue eyes.
Brynden Rivers, aka Bloodraven, is another candidate. Although he's the three-eyed-crow, it's possible he's warging into multiple people at once. He's been dead ~100 years, so he qualifies for the old references. The main point against him is that he's already helping Bran through 1 vehicle, why would he need another? Bran and Co. wouldn't know his face, but it could be that he's just hiding it due to decay or injuries making him really unpleasant to look at.
A miscellaneous long-dead Stark is another possibility. He'd be ancient, and could have been a member of the watch, so most issues are covered. Starks are known to be wargers, so they all seem likely candidates. And, Bran would be able to recognize him due to seeing his statue in the crypt. The main strike against this is that Coldhand's identity has been a mystery for quite a while, and this seems like a cop-out (unless it turns out to be someone specific we've heard about... Bran the Builder?)
The Night's King has also been mentioned. He was a member of the Watch and ended up working with the Others. He even married one of them and gave her his soul. Perhaps he was granted a gift of retained intelligence, and over the years decided to work against the Others? (Unless the Children are in league with the Others...) But, this doesn't explain hiding his face. And, he lived in a time when the Others were more understood, so his body probably would have been burned once they knew he was working with the Others.
And, finally, there's the possibility that Coldhands isn't anyone special. He's just an unnamed member of the Night's Watch. This does fit almost everything (other than the face-hiding, but that could just be due to cosmetic reasons), but it would be a very, very disappointing answer to the mystery that's been building for a few books now.
