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Ok to kick off a quick overview
here is what i know so far:
1. saints are rare individuals who are selected by the inquistion and the church of the emperor.
2. they have the ability to regenerate from the most grevious wounds aslong as long asgeneral bone structure is intact.
3.powers stem from either holy innate power or the big E himself.


lexicanum is pretty thin on fluff for the saints so here are my main questions:
1.how are saints found or judged to be used in battle/recruited
2.can males be living saints? or can they be made into sisters or marines?
3.what are their capabilities and.how well trained are they including general equipment?
4.how can saints be killed and what have they been defeated by?
5.lastly where do they fit into the hierachy of the imperium etc?

Sorry for any spelling mistakes and feel free to add your own questions or theorys.

Alphacerberus wrote:Ok to kick off a quick overview
3.powers stem from either holy innate power or the big E himself.

That's a whole can of worms really. The only definitive thing that can be stated is: "it ain't Psyker power."

1.how are saints found or judged to be used in battle/recruited
2.can males be living saints? or can they be made into sisters or marines?
3.what are their capabilities and.how well trained are they including general equipment?
4.how can saints be killed and what have they been defeated by?
5.lastly where do they fit into the hierachy of the imperium etc?

Err, you might to consider expanding your notions for a second.

Saints aren't so much "made" as they are found - and to be designated as such requires a joint Ecchlesiarchy/Inquisition conclave.

But because you can't "PreFab" a Saint, it also means their backgrounds would be varied - so it becomes a little incoherent in trying to ask for what their general capabilities - as they aren't uniform to begin with.


Regarding the Death of a Saint - well frankly anything can kill them. The problem is of course for the enemy is making sure they stay dead.

Some saints like Drusus (an example of a Male saint, not affiliated with the Sisters of Battle) or Anais simply resurrect after their death.

How many times can they do this? Again, think of it less as a power and more like a blessing from on high - ie: Whatever the Will of the Emperor may be.

Saint Sabbat on the other hand got reincarnated a few centuries after her death to help retake the Sabbat Worlds. Going by Abnett's take on the issue - that really was the Will of the Emperor no ifs, ands, or buts.


That also kind of answers your hierarchy question - Who is willing to say no to a person who is the living embodiment of your God?


The take away from this though should be the following: Living Saints are here for a Purpose. Their lives are not their own, heck their powers are not their own (as far as we can tell at least). When they speak, they speak with the authority of the Emperor, and all listen lest be branded a heretic.

Some die a final death - their work completed. Others simply disappear, only to reappear once again on some battlefield where the forces of the Imperium of Man are in dire need.

Ave Imperator!

As this is somewhat of an Ecclesiarchal topic, I shall attempt to add my my own knowledge, interpretation, and opinion:

1. As the Contemplative Sphinx mentioned, Living Saints are "found" and put forward for consideration, facing a joint conclave of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition to determine whether they are dealing with a hoax, an agent of Chaos (knowing or unknowing), or an actual being blessed by the Emperor. These conclaves may at times last many years, as proponents and opponents put forward their arguments, at times influenced by political infighting between various factions. Then again, a decision like this shall not be made lightly, and so it is that only a handful of times in each millennium a true Living Saint may be declared.

Now, in my personal theory (speculation ahead!), a Living Saint is a host for a short-lived entity birthed from the Warp not dissimilar to how Slaanesh was created. As the Prince of Pleasure has us know, emotion is capable of twisting the energies of the Warp into shape, and certainly the massive upheaval amongst countless masses of faithful servants of the Emperor, all praying for salvation in times of crisis, might qualify as being capable to achieve a similar effect on a smaller scale. In this way, the desperate hope of millions of human beings manifests itself as semi-sentient raw power, channeled into a host located where emotion is the strongest. Since this is a change on the metaphysical level, such alteration would not show up on tests created to uncover the psyker-gene, in turn allowing the host to pass as a holy being with powers granted by the God-Emperor Himself.

Needless to say, take with tons of salt. This is just one opinion of many on the subject.

2. I don't recall reading Living Saints being gender-exclusive. In fact, although unproven, the great Sebastian Thor was rumored to having been a Living Saint herself back in his days. That said, he did live a long life, whereas "true" Living Saints are usually creatures of (comparatively) short duration, their terrible wrath and the divine power being too much for their bodies to bear. As they say, "the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long". In either case, no Living Saint is formally inducted into the Sororitas or the Marines - especially not the latter, as the Astartes do not partake in following the One True Faith, but in their heresy instead stand apart in an uneasy (and at times shattered) truce.
The fact that Living Saints are often associated with women is probably because the Adepta Sororitas are said to have brought forth the most of these avenging angels, which is especially remarkable due to this organisation's small size. On the other hand, it may be argued that not only do the members of the Sisterhood come with a mindset predisposed for duty as a holy vessel, but also that they would have a much better chance of being judged worthy by the conclave, compared to a random commoner of questionable origin.

3. I would imagine the capabilities differ from individual to individual, as does their gear. Saint Celestine, a former Repentia, reportedly had a vision guide her to the lost crypt of Saint Katherine, the legendary founding matriarch of the Order of the Martyred Lady. There, she recovered Katherine's golden armour and her blessed sword. It stands to reason, however, that any true Living Saint proclaimed by the conclave can rely on material support from the Ecclesiarchy, as well as the masses of its faithful - including countless noble lords or influential officers.

4. Hard to say. Back in 3E, Celestine was nuked into oblivion, but in 5E she seems to have survived this. In general, Celestine seems to disappear as quickly as she came now, being given the role of a guardian angel rather than a crusading leader like back then. Unfortunately, studio material lacks any other examples. More Living Saints can be found in outsourced material such as Black Library novels, but given the absence of canon and consistency, I prefer to stick to studio books, as they provide a slightly more uniform interpretation.

5. Living Saints are extremely rare, but when one is found, she or he is expected to assume a role both as a symbol for the faith as well as a weapon against the enemies of Mankind. In Celestine's 3E background, she was made an influential asset of the Palatine Crusade and fought in the vanguard of numerous Wars of Faith. Celestine's influence with the Adepta Sororitas in particular was remarkable in that she was said to have become "an object of total veneration" whom the Sisters would "follow to the very centre of the Eye of Terror were she to lead them there." It is somewhat unclear whether her background as a former Sister has anything to do with this submission or if any Living Saint would be treated the same way.

As for Lexicanum, if you are capable of understanding German, you might try it in another language. Curiously, unlike with most wikis, the German Lexicanum seems to be more detailed and filled with content. That being said, as with any wiki, Lexicanum is filled with personal interpretation, so be wary of what you read. I also advise caution due to Lexicanum's attempts to unify various sources of fluff which I maintain are incompatible to one another, resulting in any number of strange contradictions. It still is a great place to start your research, however, as it often lists the various sources where bits and pieces of information have been taken from.

Disclaimer: The above opinion reflects the writer's personal interpretation of a uniform summary of official Games Workshop sources, including rulebooks, codices and issues of White Dwarf or the Citadel Magazine. Outsourced and licensed products or fan-fiction containing elements incompatible to these sources have been dismissed and ignored.

Thanks for the great replies so far!
Saints seem to be a enigma in themselves as didn't the big E not want to be worshiped as a God? If that's the case how can faith make saints or is it a more "pure" chaos theory of the human populations need in the warp?

Also in conjunction to that does that make Daemon princes effectively the opposite of Saints or could saints even fall to chaos?

And id hate to see the Grey knights come to a battlefield where a Saint is being used especially after bloodtide xD

Alphacerberus wrote:Saints seem to be a enigma in themselves as didn't the big E not want to be worshiped as a God? If that's the case how can faith make saints or is it a more "pure" chaos theory of the human populations need in the warp?

That's where you will probably hear a lot of different opinions!

It comes down to whether you truly believe in the existence of "divine magic" in 40k - or if, like me, you prefer to explain any miracles with exaggeration, coincidence, technology, exceptional mind-over-body feats ... or the Warp. Obviously, with the Living Saints, they are so clearly supernatural that you'd have to acknowledge their power, being left with the question where it would come from.

If one were to acknowledge some sort of divine magic emanating from the Big E, I suppose it could be justified by Him-on-Earth being pragmatic about it, or maybe that he did change over all those millennia and went a bit crazy, or maybe that he isn't even actively conscious anymore and simply reacts on outside stimuli.

Alphacerberus wrote:Also in conjunction to that does that make Daemon princes effectively the opposite of Saints or could saints even fall to chaos?

Personally, I like the idea of Living Saints being "Anti-Demon Princes". Them falling to Chaos, however, is not something I can see - just like I don't see a Demon Prince abandoning it. They are, I think, raw emotion given shape, and as such their actions are limited to a pretty narrow frame of set parameters depending on however they came to be. It's part of why Living Saints are said to be both beautiful and terrible to behold, and standing in front of one means to face "holy terror".

Lynata wrote:If one were to acknowledge some sort of divine magic emanating from the Big E, I suppose it could be justified by Him-on-Earth being pragmatic about it, or maybe that he did change over all those millennia and went a bit crazy, or maybe that he isn't even actively conscious anymore and simply reacts on outside stimuli.

There is a kind of "backdoor" logic behind this.

The Emperor has been stewing in the Warp for 10,000 years. 10,000 years of watching his Grand Master Plan..well.. you know what, perhaps an apropo video clip from an Agent of Chaos itself might be in order..






Anyway - 10,000 years of seeing his whole scheme not only go up in flames but produce the very results he was hoping to avoid.


And that his own actions, his own choices, have paved the way to this current state of affairs.

Now if that isn't a humbling experience, i don't know what is.


There's also the fact that for the past 10,000 years he's existed more as a Warp entity than as a physical being. An entity that has been perhaps influenced/susceptible to the cries of untold souls on countless worlds echoing a simple Truth held by the lowliest slave to the mightiest of the Astartes: The Emperor Protects.

As with anything with the Ecclesiarchy its all about dedication and service. Though it may be a divine purpose that chooses them the Living Saints were not born that way. To me, the Emperor is still playing the grand game against the Chaos Gods, and is doing so by electing champions to serve a higher purpose He Himself cannot act on outside of the warp. They are not angels, created in His image and divine protection, they are sweaty, filthy, and sinful human beings that have character and life before they are reforged by the Emperor's hand to break the Emperor's one tenant he is constantly struggling to overcome... being dead.

If there's any rule that is currently unbreakable, it is the undying state of the Emperor, and as humbling as it may be to watch the very fate He tried so hard to avoid by ascending to power, we have to give Him credit for lasting 10,000 years without so much as a second thought in playing His own hand in the realm he is virtually dead in. I see no reason why the Emperor would not grant this amount of power to His most dedicated servants to act out from the grave in events that would seem to change the course of history/fate.

DemetriDominov wrote:If there's any rule that is currently unbreakable, it is the undying state of the Emperor, and as humbling as it may be to watch the very fate He tried so hard to avoid by ascending to power, we have to give Him credit for lasting 10,000 years without so much as a second thought in playing His own hand in the realm he is virtually dead in. I see no reason why the Emperor would not grant this amount of power to His most dedicated servants to act out from the grave in events that would seem to change the course of history/fate.

As with all things, it depends on how one interprets the Emperor.

You have only to look around this very forum and you'll find enough interpretations to last a lifetime with people jumping up and down believing that they have unlocked the mystery of the Big E.

To some he's a genocidal maniac. To others a cold and calculating Dictator.

Some people would paint him simply as a noble-in-intention but flawed in execution leader.

Still others would dismiss all of the above and merely label him a pragmatist.

People essentially "build" the Emperor they want to see - stringing along a variety of different sources to develop a composite picture of the Man who ruled Mankind. And more often than not its an Emperor who just so happens to agree with the person's personal views.



I do have to give a congratulatory nod over to whomever decided to maintain this state of affairs with the Big E. Its really masterful - everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too....and argue about how the other guy is eating his slice incorrectly.

Alphacerberus wrote:Thanks for the great replies so far!
Saints seem to be a enigma in themselves as didn't the big E not want to be worshiped as a God? If that's the case how can faith make saints or is it a more "pure" chaos theory of the human populations need in the warp?

Also in conjunction to that does that make Daemon princes effectively the opposite of Saints or could saints even fall to chaos?

And id hate to see the Grey knights come to a battlefield where a Saint is being used especially after bloodtide xD

Firstly, yes, and they're more interesting for being enigmatic. Daemons of Law or avatars of the Emperor have always been my favoured possible explanations.

So far as Draigo goes, it's worth noting that one of the better explanations for his ludicrously over the top fluff is that he is some sort of saint/warp entity/the Emperor wearing a false beard.

English Assassin wrote:

Alphacerberus wrote:Thanks for the great replies so far!
Saints seem to be a enigma in themselves as didn't the big E not want to be worshiped as a God? If that's the case how can faith make saints or is it a more "pure" chaos theory of the human populations need in the warp?

Also in conjunction to that does that make Daemon princes effectively the opposite of Saints or could saints even fall to chaos?

And id hate to see the Grey knights come to a battlefield where a Saint is being used especially after bloodtide xD

Firstly, yes, and they're more interesting for being enigmatic. Daemons of Law or avatars of the Emperor have always been my favoured possible explanations.

So far as Draigo goes, it's worth noting that one of the better explanations for his ludicrously over the top fluff is that he is some sort of saint/warp entity/the Emperor wearing a false beard.

Don't give ward any more ideas if he does sisters we could see Draigo 2.0 in Saint form haha

Back on topic How do Saints react to psykers and weapons designed to damage them including Omega- class psykers etc?

Must a Saint be a Psyker? Im assuming they must do since i imagine they are picked up on the black ships much like GK candidates.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:Its really masterful - everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too....and argue about how the other guy is eating his slice incorrectly.

Well said.

Alphacerberus wrote:Back on topic How do Saints react to psykers and weapons designed to damage them including Omega- class psykers etc?

I don't think there was anything special hinted at in the studio books, including the various miniatures' rules. Oversight or intention? No way to know for sure.

The Ephrael Stern miniature did have her own rules, however, which stated that she could no longer benefit from the faith rules. If this is relevant probably depends entirely on whether you regard Ephrael as a potential Living Saint or not.

Alphacerberus wrote:Must a Saint be a Psyker? Im assuming they must do since i imagine they are picked up on the black ships much like GK candidates.

No. Celestine was a Repentia before, and the Adepta Sororitas - or rather the Schola Progenium in general - do not accept people "tainted" with the psyker-gene. I've also never heard they are taken by Black Ships, unless this is referring to the ones appropriated by the Inquisition, in which case I assume this is a coincidence because the Saint needs to be examined by a conclave which includes Inquisitorial representatives.

Lynata wrote:The Ephrael Stern miniature did have her own rules, however, which stated that she could no longer benefit from the faith rules. If this is relevant probably depends entirely on whether you regard Ephrael as a potential Living Saint or not.

Hmm. Can Stern actually be considered a Saint?

The origin of her Powers and her Purpose (again if we do take all those hints down the road to be literally the Will of the Big E) points more to a rather singular and exceptional being.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:Hmm. Can Stern actually be considered a Saint?
The origin of her Powers and her Purpose (again if we do take all those hints down the road to be literally the Will of the Big E) points more to a rather singular and exceptional being.

That's what I meant with interpretation. As I said, in my version I'm thinking that Living Saints are a Warp-powered embodiment of the emotions of the faithful masses - like Slaanesh. In this, Ephrael would be compatible.

Nobody within the Imperium understands how Living Saints come to be, they simply assume that it must be the Will of the Emperor because it just happens to fit in with their religion - just like certain people in the real world are immediatela assuming a holy miracle when they think they see Jesus' face on their toast.

Ironically, even if people knew the truth about how Ephrael was created, they could still sell her as a Saint because "the Emperor made this to happen", probably claiming that He acted through the souls of the Sisters trapped in the Screaming Cage, whose unwaivering faith protected them from Chaos even beyond death. Ah ... religion ...

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:If there's any rule that is currently unbreakable, it is the undying state of the Emperor, and as humbling as it may be to watch the very fate He tried so hard to avoid by ascending to power, we have to give Him credit for lasting 10,000 years without so much as a second thought in playing His own hand in the realm he is virtually dead in. I see no reason why the Emperor would not grant this amount of power to His most dedicated servants to act out from the grave in events that would seem to change the course of history/fate.

As with all things, it depends on how one interprets the Emperor.

People essentially "build" the Emperor they want to see - stringing along a variety of different sources to develop a composite picture of the Man who ruled Mankind. And more often than not its an Emperor who just so happens to agree with the person's personal views.

I do have to give a congratulatory nod over to whomever decided to maintain this state of affairs with the Big E. Its really masterful - everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too....and argue about how the other guy is eating his slice incorrectly.

True, I'm not championing what exactly the Emperor is, be it a Judeo-Christian God made into a mortal dictator or shamanistic conglomerate of the peak of human evolution, but in the case of cannonized lore, there is no question that the Emperor is somehow influencing the Imperium post mortum. As this thread is dedicated to the Saint's and their miracles, I think that however Saints come into being, it is far more orderly and preordained than the birth of a Chaos form - even if it is similar. Unless of course you're someone following Tzneetch.. then it's all about premeditation regardless....

It's also interesting to note on the formation of a Saint, as many are obscure and humble as the Imperial Cult dictates them to be, so all of this dedicated emotion that we've seemingly decided upon that creates Saints really can't be justifiably be channeled into them directly because they are not praying for a soft spoken monk or priestess to deliver them, but for the Emperor Himself to do it. So where does this energy go if not directly into someone, is it pooled someplace in the warp until someone or something finds a way to tap into it? Does the Emperor receive it and then dish it out to those he thinks have earned the right to have his hand inside like a puppet? Does this mean that Saint's are not necessarily Divinely ordained Daemon Princes, but rather closer to Greater Daemons under the Emperor's sanction and then forced into a mortal vessel? If that is the case, why are they granted this power primarily after their own death, and why can't Greater Daemons be formed from corpses?

Talking about having your cake and eat it too... it seems to me that the lack of rules and ample questions on this issue is simply just another one of those moments we like to call a miracle... when really.. we have no flakking idea what to make of it, because we really don't know.

Edited for my fleeting grammar skillz

Please make a distinction between saints and living saints when talking.

Saints are declared posthumously by the church, and are basically anyone who lived a virtuous life and did heroic things. Sanguinious was a saint, was are many Sisters, Guardsmen, even a few psykers are saints. They do not have to be flawless, all they need is a great deed by which they can be remembered.

Living Saints are something else entirely. The will of the Emperor manifests through them, and they are capable of miraculous feats which cannot be explained by the natural world nor by psychic power, and are universally absolutely devoted to the Emperor, speaking with His wisdom. Celestine and Sabbat are the most well known ones.. These are also declared by the church, but only after a full investigation by the Inquisition, determining the purity of the Living Saint, testing for psychic power, and so on and so forth.

DemetriDominov wrote:
Talking about having your cake and eat it too... it seems to me that the lack of rules and ample questions on this issue is simply just another one of those moments we like to call a miracle... when really.. we have no flakking idea what to make of it, because we really don't know.

At the end of the day we're left simply with suspicions, innuedo, and the writer's reliance on his reader's cultural inheritance (ie: the concept of the Saint).

But Answers? Actual straightforward answers?

:sigh:

Well at the very least, it does make for some interesting musings.

Melissia wrote:Please make a distinction between saints and living saints when talking.

Apologies. The way the OP asked his questions I was under the assumption we were talking about Living Saints... but then his first question need not apply, as it's one of the only ones that actually has an answer. Melissia is completely right in her* (I'm assuming) explanation of the distinction of a Living Saint and a Saint, only that sometimes the evidence of their ascension is so obvious they don't even need sanction by the church, it's already given. Who would argue with a breathing angel that literally has the power to burn everything impure around them in holy flame? Such was the case of St. Celestine, she rose from the dead like Jesus of Nazareth and everyone was like "Praise be to the Emperor, let's kick some Chaos!"

Apart from that though, Melissia's explanation is exactly what I would I envision in the 40k universe when it comes to saying who is what. And yes, Saints enjoy a considerable status boost. Sebastian Thor is considered one of the greatest, and he already was head of the Church by the time he died... and that's after he removed Goge Vandire from power on Terra itself.... It's mostly just a way to immortalize yourself in the faded annuls of the Imperium's bloody history... after all... there are Thorian Inquisitors, not just pilgrims and zealots still hunting for any trace of the elusive saint that no one knows is dead or not...

Yeah, sainthood is the most valuable posthumous title in the Imperium.

It's why it's a mark of pride for Blood Angels that their primarch ,and no other, was made in to an Imperial Saint. Sanguinious was THAT awesome.

Melissia wrote:Yeah, sainthood is the most valuable posthumous title in the Imperium.

It's why it's a mark of pride for Blood Angels that their primarch ,and no other, was made in to an Imperial Saint. Sanguinious was THAT awesome.

My Blood Angels knowledge is admittedly spotty - but i was always under the impression that the various Space Marine Chapters essentially spurned the Ecchlesiarchy.

If that's the case, why would they care about Sangunius sainthood? (Except perhaps as a means to honor a war hero).

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yeah, sainthood is the most valuable posthumous title in the Imperium.

It's why it's a mark of pride for Blood Angels that their primarch ,and no other, was made in to an Imperial Saint. Sanguinious was THAT awesome.

My Blood Angels knowledge is admittedly spotty - but i was always under the impression that the various Space Marine Chapters essentially spurned the Ecchlesiarchy.

If that's the case, why would they care about Sangunius sainthood? (Except perhaps as a means to honor a war hero).

It probably matters little to the Astartes because they already hold him with such high regard, but to the rest of the Imperium, he is that honored war hero that sacrificed himself in an attempt to save the Emperor from the Arch enemy. I don't think a higher honor could be bestowed upon an individual of the Imperium if they tried. It was probably the least the church could do for him.

The Blood Angels in general are actually quite beloved by the population, despite their flaws-- like the Salamanders, they seem to be much more humble and much nicer to humans than the average Astartes is.

At least as far as I can tell.

That I never knew. (Knew the Salamanders part) but the whole blood rage and vampiric tendencies seemed like they'd be.... off putting....

They are I imagine, but the BA are still viewed as heroes AFAIK. Tragic ones, but heroes.

Making the BA, Sallies, and SW to three most loved chapters in-universe, followed closely by the Ultramarines.

Not surprisingly, three of these have their own codex.

I'd imagine the Ultramarines and the Salamanders to be the most beloved.

Space Wolves are the most well-loved Space Marine Chapter in the Imperium.

Every time a Great Hunt is called, the Wolves load up and go tooling about the Galaxy. They never find sign of Russ, but they do always encounter some kind of "great evil" that they beat the hell out of and save thousands/millions of Imperial Citizens from. There are statues of various members of the Space Wolves on planets throughout the Imperium honoring these victories.

Let's not get too deeply in to this discussion.

I can hear the Moderator Ripper Swarms heading this way.

Going back to Saints, anyone have an idea on the difference between them and Greater Deamons is, apart from the faction they fight for btw? Speculation?

Hmmh, as far as I know, Greater Daemons do not require hosts to exist - they simply cross over and "are". Although I also recall reading about Chaos champions ascending to daemonhood, which may be somewhat similar to the birth of a Living Saint.

Also, there seems to be the matter of a Living Saint "decaying" with time, whereas daemons are eternal. In my theory, I attribute this to the extreme amount of emotion necessary for the Living Saint's birth to ebb away with time.
It's like a vicious cycle: People go into despair and religious frenzy, their collective emotions calling forth an entity from the Warp. This entity now fights for them - but in doing so, it causes the frenzied mass of humans to "calm down" again, thereby undermining its own sustenance. After all, has it not been said that Slaanesh, too, continues to feed on feelings? Hypothetically assuming the truth of my wild theory, the same need to "feed" would exist for a Living Saint. And if this need is not satiated, this being of collective fanatism and holy terror will simply wither away.

Before the recent changes made to Celestine, I would have also said that daemons differ from Living Saints in that the former keep crossing over from the Warp into realspace and back, whereas Living Saints exist only in reality once birthed. However, with Celestine's mysterious appearances out of nowhere, this now seems to go for Living Saints as well.

Lynata wrote:Hmmh, as far as I know, Greater Daemons do not require hosts to exist - they simply cross over and "are". Although I also recall reading about Chaos champions ascending to daemonhood, which may be somewhat similar to the birth of a Living Saint.

Also, there seems to be the matter of a Living Saint "decaying" with time, whereas daemons are eternal. In my theory, I attribute this to the extreme amount of emotion necessary for the Living Saint's birth to ebb away with time.
It's like a vicious cycle: People go into despair and religious frenzy, their collective emotions calling forth an entity from the Warp. This entity now fights for them - but in doing so, it causes the frenzied mass of humans to "calm down" again, thereby undermining its own sustenance. After all, has it not been said that Slaanesh, too, continues to feed on feelings? Hypothetically assuming the truth of my wild theory, the same need to "feed" would exist for a Living Saint. And if this need is not satiated, this being of collective fanatism and holy terror will simply wither away.

Before the recent changes made to Celestine, I would have also said that daemons differ from Living Saints in that the former keep crossing over from the Warp into realspace and back, whereas Living Saints exist only in reality once birthed. However, with Celestine's mysterious appearances out of nowhere, this now seems to go for Living Saints as well.

Interesting theory about the "decay" of Living Saints and I completely agree with you on the point of Saints going in and out of reality, but my connection with Greater Daemons is this: They need a vessel to possess to enter the realm of reality unless they enter from a stable portal- which takes considerable effort and sacrifice to open and then maintain. It would seem as though Living Saints are something similar to this effect of possession/ ascension, especially St. Celestine who had life breathed back into her and then since has become some sort of divine Warpwalker.

Edit: wow.. and then i just left my thought right there..

So we have to ask the question, are Saints more like Greater Daemons, or are they more like Daemon Princes?