Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yo,
Ok not ever played with DE since late '05 so bear with me

3x Haemonculus
Liquefier gun and Agonisers

3x Raider
3x flickerfield (Grisly Trophies ?)

3x venom
3x splinter cannon

9x wychs
Hekatrix w/ agoniser razorflails

9x wychs Hekatrix w/ agoniser razorflails

9x wracks Acothyst w/ agonizer liquefier gun

4x kabalite trueborn

4x blasters

4x kabalite trueborn

4x blasters

5x incubi

5x Scourge 2x blaster

5x Scourge
2x haywire blaster

3x ravager
flickerfield

Totally flexible at the moment as nothing bought - ( will be doing an P&M blog at some point)
Would like to hear from DE players and their Victims to what makes certain units more evil or troublesome - thoughts, suggestions or where I have made an error will all be taken on board

Thanks for your time

Drop the agonisers on Haemies - they are not supposed to be in combat anyways, and if they are they are already dead with or without agoniser.

Actually, I am putting together a bit similar list and got some criticism about the lack of focus. My list is in middle between Venom-spam and CC (wyches etc).
For the moment, I can tell You that can buy those 3 Ravagers with DL and Flickers and it will be Your most solid investment into Heavy Support - You won't need anything else, unless You play Apoc and want to field Razorwing Jetfighter. You can't go wrong with 3-4 Venoms with double SC as well. The rest is tweaking - wyches look good (they are exactly like my, but I give the haywire grenades as well), Scourges are better left at home.

CainTheHunter wrote:Drop the agonisers on Haemies - they are not supposed to be in combat anyways, and if they are they are already dead with or without agoniser.

Interesting - Was thinking of having those with the wychs * can you expand on your experiences with that ?

Yes, You are correct Haemies join Wyches, give their pain token, but when wyches disembark from their Raider, haemie stays on board and continues to fly around picking targets with liquifier gun. He does not have fleet so keeping him with wyches on foot is a liability, plus he will be picked out as IC and killed (he has no defence whatsoever). So agoniser is a waste of points on him

Also Incubi need Archon to run with (an Archon with Phantasm Grenade Launcher to be more specific). If You go that route, then the list looses its focus even more, so I'd suggest You leaving the Incubi for a while.

You can check my list down on this page - there are some insightful comments there.

CainTheHunter wrote:Drop the agonisers on Haemies - they are not supposed to be in combat anyways, and if they are they are already dead with or without agoniser.

Actually, I am putting together a bit similar list and got some criticism about the lack of focus. My list is in middle between Venom-spam and CC (wyches etc).
For the moment, I can tell You that can buy those 3 Ravagers with DL and Flickers and it will be Your most solid investment into Heavy Support - You won't need anything else, unless You play Apoc and want to field Razorwing Jetfighter. You can't go wrong with 3-4 Venoms with double SC as well. The rest is tweaking - wyches look good (they are exactly like my, but I give the haywire grenades as well), Scourges are better left at home.

Oh snap, I see your thinking the same. My concern is the CC and not having enough punch - possible swap scourges for harlequins?

- Will check your list out

No to harlequins, mandrakes, reavers, hellions and scourges. No, no, no - unless You have money and wish to collect the entire range. I am seriously thinking about moving the Beastmaster route (thus using the hellions to kitbash those overpriced models), as the numbers really show that they are nasty in CC.
Also if You prefer wyches - think about Duke Sliscus as HQ. if beastmasters - Baron Sathonyx.

Got you, I like that idea as well.

Noted that I missed the haywire grenades - for some reason that did not transfer form the paper to the web !

Will have to double check but it would appear that dropping a Heame for ze baron would solve the HQ issue however it would appear to me you really are
making a choice between them (wyches) and hellions ? or am I missing the point here ? - going first tho I can see the advantage

I will look at the beastmasters , that was something I didn't consider - thank you


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm so Baron with the beastmasters for the ST + LD
Stripped down -

3 Beastmasters
5 Kyhmerae
4 Razorwing Flocks

(nothing on the Beastmasters really needed unless army specifiic like MC etc )

which would give

-> Effective assault range: 19” – 24”

-> Beastmasters: 6 strength 3 attacks

-> Khymerae: 20 strength 4 attacks

-> Razorwings: 24 strength 3 Rending attacks

I also think having the raider take trophies in this case.


* now to rob a bank for the money ....



My only concern is marine units in transports or cover , they are going to struggle , thats why I am still leaning towards the wyches.

I was not suggesting hellions, but rather using hellion kit to make beastmasters (who are on skyboards anyway) and Baron. There is no official model for him, so You'll have to make one anyway and a box of Hellions costs around 14 pounds on the Internet. One Beastmaster is around 9 pounds and You need at least three of them. Now I only have to figure out what to use for Razorwing flocks, as my wallet is virtually crying about opportunity to spend 7.70 pounds for a 40mm base with 3 small birdie stands x 4.

Ah - I follow ,

Reaper Murder of Crows ?
Some clipping and greenstuff and that would address ?

and maybe some real razor blades.. no thats silly .. and evil.

Funny You saying this, but I've thinking about them as the closest alternative. FW Winged Rippers is another option, but seeing FW does not like my creditcard for some reason, I am not very optimistic about that. In fact, there are not that many options, which are cheap at the same time. Vampire Fell bat swarms are expensive and kinda way off in terms of design, Wood elf owls do not look menacing enough - though there is something in mounting 2-3 owls on the base, which just stare at you intensively...

Baron plus Hellions can be quite effective if used properly and supported I run this list at 1.5k and it is quite effective

Baron
Haemonculus (these start with hellions then go and hide lol)

Haemonculus
-liquifier gun

Warriors x 5
-Blaster
Venom
-2x SC

Warriors x 5
-Blaster
Venom
-2x SC

Wyches x8
-hekatrix w/agonizer
Raider
- FF, DL

Hellion x 14

Reavers x 3
-Heat Lance

Reavers x 3
-Heat Lance

Scourge x 5
-2x Haywire Blaster

Ravager
-FF, DL x 3

Ravager
-FF, DL x 3

Ravager
-FF, DL x3

Why only 8 wyches?

Only enough points for 8

I actually suspected that this was the reason

Overall i just find my list can face anything and be good, green tide is probably the hardest if they dump 100+ orcs on the field

And blood angels ? I guess that might cause a little bitt of a bump ? ( < dark lances go here > )

I do like the list however

Not to sound like a total noob ( remeber its since 05' that I used DE ) but wouldnt the dark sheilds work out better in cutting down ranges when you are dropping in so close ?

You mean night shields on Ravagers? You want to know why they are waste? Because Dark Lance has a range of 36" and if it wants to hit something with lascannons, missile launchers, eartshaker cannon, railgun etc. it has to be in 36" of that. At the same time Lascannon has range of 48". If Ravager with night shield is able to hit that lascannon platform, then platform can shoot at it too, since the Ravager will be - let's say - 36" inches away + 6 inches from shield = 42". Just great, because lascannon still hits it with its 48" range.

Cain , I love you.
This is why dakkadakka is fantastic, - when you get out of touch with the game for so long its little tacticial thinking like you explained above that answers my questions

Dakka is great, but for example for space marines B&C is better, as is asrai.org for Wood Elves. I've not found a good DE forum yet.

How many points is this list aiming to be?

CainTheHunter wrote:Dakka is great, but for example for space marines B&C is better, as is asrai.org for Wood Elves. I've not found a good DE forum yet.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/

Welcome to Commorragh fellow Archon...

TsarNikolai wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:Dakka is great, but for example for space marines B&C is better, as is asrai.org for Wood Elves. I've not found a good DE forum yet.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/

Welcome to Commorragh fellow Archon...

Thanks!

Ok I agree with Cain on a lot of points but not all of them. I'll go step by step through the list and talk about options and things that either do or don't work well.

Tauzor wrote:

3x Haemonculus
Liquefier gun and Agonisers

So I agree with him here. Agonisers are a waste for a model that can be singled out in CC, doesn't swing any faster and has a 6+ save. If those aren't bad enough you can't charge after running since he isn't fleet. Drop the agoniser and leave them in the boats to liquifier things.

Tauzor wrote:

3x Raider
3x flickerfield (Grisly Trophies ?)

3x venom
3x splinter cannon

On the vehicles you are right on here too. Grislies don't work that well since the charge range + run + disembark will take you out of their range. It's better to leave them off for an upgrade (or body) elswhere.

Tauzor wrote:

9x wychs
Hekatrix w/ agoniser razorflails

9x wychs Hekatrix w/ agoniser razorflails

These both look fine.

Tauzor wrote:

9x wracks Acothyst w/ agonizer liquefier gun

I'm really only a fan of wracks at small point games where they are a cheap scorring unit and a cheap way to get another venom on the board. You could easily pick up 2 5 man warrior squads w/ blasters for a ballpark figure of the same points. Give each squad a venom like those above. That gives you more AT and more poison shots.

Tauzor wrote:

4x kabalite trueborn

4x blasters

4x kabalite trueborn

4x blasters

Good...very good.

Tauzor wrote:

5x incubi

Honestly the troops need to be maxed out since DE are so frail. I would max them out with some warrior squads to help with the AT roles, plus the amount of dakka pointed at infantry is insane. Now I'm not saying Incubi are bad but objectives are 2/3 game types played and only troops can score. With frail armored vehicles and T3 with 5+ and 6+ saves we need to max out troops by 1500 or 1750. As far as how the squad looks composition wise it is right on the money, but it does need an archon with a phantasm for going into cover.

Tauzor wrote:

5x Scourge 2x blaster

5x Scourge
2x haywire blaster

Both are fine in their own right. Personally I like being able to kill mech not stun lock it unless I see IG on the other side so I normally go with heat lances and blasters. Once the troops are full I would fill up elite, then HS, with as much AT as possible then go with scourges and beasts. Beasts are nasty with this build: 3 beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, and 4 razorwings. Thats 5 invuls and a bunch of multi-wound rending attacks for less than 200 points.

Tauzor wrote:

3x ravager
flickerfield

These are also good.

As for other options. I like baron with the beasts for stealth and then split him off before assaulting to maximize movement. Reavers in small teams have to be delt with so a 3 man group with a blaster will be a pain and a destraction. Hellions I don't like since you need a full squad to be effective andt that is a lot of points. Mandrakes look cool but compete in the elite slot which is pretty high end in our book. Same things for harlies. If they could take a venom I would be all over that with a shadowseer a bunch of kisses and some fusion pistols...but alas. Grots are fun with a urien coven build with a portal, but otherwise the lack of PW hurts. Razorwings are fine if you have the AT more than under control with the SC and dissies on them.

This is by Thor who wrote a pretty good four part article on the new DE codex and has some pretty good advice in it:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica_Part_1

One of the comments on Incubi about them needing the grenade laucher on an archon is a little misleading. Running a slightly larger squad (i like 8) means they are more than able to charge cover and still destroy most targets with the plus side of them getting a cover save when they are finished!

To all , thanks for the pointers,tips and wisdom

@Akroma06 -- Thank you very much , a lot to go over and review I think Beasts are they way to go imho
@Massaen -- I have the codex, so happy to fine tweek where I see - However I think I can drop them in favor for more beasts. (incubi)
@TsarNikolai -- Thank you - Joined
@HeadRipper -- I don't "fit" my army lists to points , I tend to have lists then trim to fit per battle. * unorthodox yes - but works for me.
ie if its over 1800 or 2k - il find a battle with some one with matching points - if its comp/to I will rework the list to fit -


Kocking up a part 2 list at the moment with peoples comments and squeezing the points
(* there has to be some compromises - but hey thats the name of the game )



Death is my meat; terror my wine.