Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys, anyone have any good or bad general impressions after playing or owning the game for a significant time?

Is there any common mistakes to watch out for when starting the game?

How is the Arena version? When I first researched it a long time ago, there were significant complaints about the way its rules were written. Has this changed?

Second, I know the game is about gears, with other vehicles having well defined part. But what about other combined arms forces, and the factions that don't have gears?

For example, would it be reasonable to run a primarily infantry based army, with a few gears (or equivalent) and vehicles as support?

Oh, and how do all the newer factions fit in? Utopia seems interesting, but then there's the awesome new stuff from NuCoal and similar.

I'm also curious about forces that don't run gears. I'd be interested in running a primarily tank force for CEF or PAK. Maybe NuCoal since their new book makes it easy to run a tank regiment.

I'm an old 1st edition player who got back into the game last year. I've always been interested in it specifically due to the gears so can't give any advice on the viability and use of armies that aren't significantly reliant on them... but people seem to do well with them from the forum and youtube battlereports posted on the net. I've got a blog here that details some of the pros/cons of the system as well (link below). The best advice I can give you is to make sure you already have someone else interested in the game to play against. HG has a loyal but unfortunately small following and my attempts to start up interest have pretty much amounted to very little.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360703.page

Vertrucio wrote:Hi guys, anyone have any good or bad general impressions after playing or owning the game for a significant time?

I have had the game for a bit over a year now, although I have not played many games. I very much like the rules. They are a nice contrast to the simplified stuff that is abundant these days. The game has some nice tactical elements, such as limiting the amount that a gear can turn based on how fast it is moving.

Vertrucio wrote:How is the Arena version? When I first researched it a long time ago, there were significant complaints about the way its rules were written. Has this changed?

I have not tried arena. There are instances in which the Blitz rules are not clear. Fortunately, the folks at DP9 are very responsive to the community. They provide official answers to rules questions very promptly.

Vertrucio wrote:Second, I know the game is about gears, with other vehicles having well defined part. But what about other combined arms forces, and the factions that don't have gears? For example, would it be reasonable to run a primarily infantry based army, with a few gears (or equivalent) and vehicles as support?

Pretty much all factions can take gears or striders, although some make more use of them than others. The less gear oriented factions are Port Arthur Korps, and CEF. These forces rely on hovertanks and GRELS (super infantry). It has been my experience that infantry are squishy and not particularly effective at killing gears. GRELS are an exception to this in that they are more durable. This being said, there is an all infantry faction, the Koreshi desert raiders. So I guess all infantry is somewhat viable.

Vertrucio wrote:Oh, and how do all the newer factions fit in? Utopia seems interesting, but then there's the awesome new stuff from NuCoal and similar.

In terms of game play, it is my understanding that Utopia and Eden are swarm armies that kill you with lots of small arms fire. NuCoal can make lots of different types of builds. It has a more elite feel than the North or South, and is faster.

Vertrucio wrote:Hi guys, anyone have any good or bad general impressions after playing or owning the game for a significant time?

I started a few months back, they've got some wonky costing issues on a few units (due to a legacy costing system that they're fixing) and some of the non-Terra Nova factions aren't fleshed out yet,, but for the most part the game has been awesome.

Is there any common mistakes to watch out for when starting the game?

Overloading on big direct fire guns and elite units. Indirect fire, ECM/ECCM and detection play a huge role and quite often you may play a mission where it's a sandstorm and night and nobody can see squat, and your fancy elite gear can go bye-bye in the blink of an eye when some putz Hunter toting a Snub Cannon gets off a half-decent shot and you putz a defense roll. Also, Tanks, they're big and scary, and largely immune to most typical base Gear weaponry, but are quickly put down by anything heavier that can get into them.

Second, I know the game is about gears, with other vehicles having well defined part. But what about other combined arms forces, and the factions that don't have gears?

Every faction can play a Gear-less army if they want, CEF (Earth) specializes in it though. They work just fine usually, though in the case of Terra Nova factions tend to be rather static, while the CEF Is all about speed, speed, speed and more speed.

For example, would it be reasonable to run a primarily infantry based army, with a few gears (or equivalent) and vehicles as support?

Yes.

Oh, and how do all the newer factions fit in? Utopia seems interesting, but then there's the awesome new stuff from NuCoal and similar.

Utopia, Caprice and Eden really aren't as filled out as they need to be and are really best utilized as allies for CEF forces. The CEF, Black Talons, Confederated Northern City States (which comprises the NG, NAF, UMFA, WFPA factions), Allied Southern Territories (which comprises the SRA, MILICIA, MDP, HAPF, and ESE), NuCoal and Peace River factions are all rather well done and fleshed out.

Vertrucio wrote:Hi guys, anyone have any good or bad general impressions after playing or owning the game for a significant time?

The only regret is that I didn't come across this game earlier and wasted so much money on others.

Is there any common mistakes to watch out for when starting the game?

Always takes advantages of a sale. Generally, it happens 3-4 times per year. You may get $10 coupon per $50 spent. Free shipping over $100. There is a sale going on now. Do NOT buy any hard copy book except for NuCoal. The TV values for all units are going to change except for NuCoal.

How is the Arena version? When I first researched it a long time ago, there were significant complaints about the way its rules were written. Has this changed?

No idea. I never try Areana.

Second, I know the game is about gears, with other vehicles having well defined part. But what about other combined arms forces, and the factions that don't have gears?

I believe all fractions have access to gears. However, you can make an army like tanks/infantry only. Typically, this is what CEF is about. Tanks generally have heavy armor and more than one action. Unless you upgrade the weapon, an ordinary gear with standard load out will find it difficult to take out a tank. Infantry is hard to dig out. They are often used to hold an area.

For example, would it be reasonable to run a primarily infantry based army, with a few gears (or equivalent) and vehicles as support?

See above. The game is to fulfill the objectives, not just killing your enemies.

Oh, and how do all the newer factions fit in? Utopia seems interesting, but then there's the awesome new stuff from NuCoal and similar.

The drones from Utopia may be a bit under-powered. Black Talon may be a bit abusive with its stealth. That is going to change with the new TV values. Check Gear Up 5 for free. NuCoal values are being set as the standard.

Hope this helps.

I did a "Heavy Gear for Imperial Guard" army list for fun one time... Translated the 'typical' Imperial Guard list to a Northern force with a couple Artillery units (Basilisks->the Tyburr, a light tank variant built as an artillery), a couple mbts (Leman Russ->the Aller) and a LOT of Infantry.

A bare infantry platoon (12 bases, 40 soldiers) is 40 points... An all-infantry list for the GenCOn event I'm participating in could theoretically be 20 platoons! (800 TV (points).

Your opponents would probably be unhappy, and you'd be very, very slow. And have no heavy weapons.

Infantry can buy a lot of options, though. The exact options vary by army faction, but the below is a very brief overview. Weapons range from upgraded anti-infantry weapons (of minimal value, but cheap) to Anti-Gear Rifles, limited Anti-Gear Missile Launchers, and Infantry Mortars. These three can take down Gears and are threatening to tanks and such. Infantry cannot be ignored.

Infantry also have mobility options: These range from upgrading to bikes/trikes or light wheeled vehicles (Unarmored Jeep/Hummvee equivalents) to adding true APCs that are combat units on their own (and may have a anti-vehicle gun on it). Or to go another direction, there's Riding Beasts (Terra Nova has some rather huge lizard-things that can be ridden) or CEF Jetbikes. Certian otpions can also be airdroppable.

Some Platoons can take attachments: Heavy Weapon Specialists, or snipers and infiltrators.

There's also heavy armor options.

There's a few unique options for certain factions, too. The CEF gets GREL infantry: gigantic super-soldiers. NuCoal forces can take Koreshi, the sand people that somehow made it to Terra Nova before the other colonists arrived thousands of years ago. Both are tougher than normal and have a few tricks up their sleeves.

Infantry are veryv aried, but are still pretty fragile. i'd rate them more effective than bare infantry in Battletech (a matter of the scale of the two games, not an insult to either) but they're slow, unarmored, and underarmred compared to Gears or true armor.

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be getting into this in a small way, and build up over time.

Also thanks for the warning about the point cost changes on everything but NuCoal. I'd read something about point costs changing in the near future, but that some of the factions weren't being changed.

I'll be picking up a Northern force to start, partly because I like the Mammoth Striders weird and bulky proportions. I really don't care if it's effective or not.

I'm with you, Vertrucio. I'm thinking about picking up the P.R.D.F. summer blitz deal.

Vertrucio wrote:
Also thanks for the warning about the point cost changes on everything but NuCoal. I'd read something about point costs changing in the near future, but that some of the factions weren't being changed.

The major source of the point changes is basically where rounding is applied. Before the most recent book (Perfect Storm) a combat group was built by totalling the TV of each model in it, rounded to the nearest 5. Each model's TV was rounded individually. As of PS, the combat group's TV is totaled, then rounded... Net result is generally no more than a 5-15 point difference.

The dev team is also making other tweaks, but I don't have any details on those. mainly looking at the value of various features. Some of this is the continuing legacy of the game originally being conceived as a hybrid RPG/tactical game, so some designs had features only really relevant to an RPG or longer-term campaign that made the point values a bit unusual. For example, the original VCS rules (they're a free download if you're interested) measure ammo by the shot, calculate deployment range, and some other features that really aren't relevant to a modern quick-play tactics wargame.

I like the game just hope they stay with the Nucoal style of books for future factions and would love to see a redo of existing factions in that style. Love the South but with the Nucoal may have to start playing them instead.

I like the south and peace river! Not sure which summer deal I'd go for.

I'm not really sure of what the background is for all the newest factions. The 3 I know of is North, South, and Earth.

PRDF, NUCOAL, etc... I have no idea who they are and what they're fighting for.

Vertrucio wrote:I'm not really sure of what the background is for all the newest factions. The 3 I know of is North, South, and Earth.

PRDF, NUCOAL, etc... I have no idea who they are and what they're fighting for.

Peace River is an independent badlands city state that is known as the arms supplier for the Northern and Southern forces. (Spoiler Their city got destroyed by a antimatter device planted by CEF terrorists as part of the Heavy Gear II opening cut scene, which is still canon unlike most of the HG II plot line (which is now considered to be the plot line of an in-setting action movie). This made them somewhat angry, and convinced the North and the South to stop their war. Everybody chilled out, had a milkshake, and then founded the Black Talons with the mission of 'kicking Earth hinder.'

Their briefing is an interesting mix of their own designs (The Warrior series is their equivalent of the Hunter/Jaeger, for example) with some ability to take Northern and Southern designs. The idea is that they're not big enough to field as many models as the polar superpowers, so used Northern designs to fill their ranks. The army list gets some fun special rules to represent them being very well trained in small unit tactics, and they have two variants: POC, or Peace Officer Corp, that is the 'police' side, and the PRDF, or Peace River Defense Force, that is the main 'military' force that defends Peace River interests in the Badlands. PRDF has no tanks, but does get some unique Striders inclduingt he 'tankstrider' Coyote and the 'Gearstrider' Cataphract.

NuCoal is a coalition of badlands states. One of their most controversial members is PAK, or Port Arthur Korp, a city-state ruled by the remaining CEF soldiers from the previous CEF invasion attempt. NuCoal is mentioned in some of the earliest Heavy Gear RPG books, but only in perfect Storm did they really 'come of age.' NuCoal forces are a bit unique right now as you pick the Force type (Armor, Gear, Infantry) and the home City (each of which provides several special rules).

NuCoal has a pretty impressive arsenal based around various designs they've purchased from other factions and innovated. They use a Gear with a limited Hover system based off Southern prototypes, a jet-boosted design (the Jerboa) based off the Northern Ferret and that story about a guy attaching JATO rockets to his car.They have a hover tank and striders based off an alliance with the Humanist Alliance in the south, as well as several designs based around more conventional chassis.

NuCoal's pretty capable and varied. They do have a lot of infantry options and a lot of their units have special 'tricks' like the hover systems or the jet boosters.

Also, it should be mentioned that the North has four major variants (Northern Guard, WFPA, UMFA, NAF), the South five more (SRA, MILICIA, HAPF, MDP, and ESE), and Earth can take some allies.

How can you forget about Caprice, Utopia and Eden?

Black Talon Return to Cats Eye introduced factions from other worlds.

Caprice is a desolate world. Its atmosphere is very thin, except in the large Cat's Eye Trench which is habitable. It is rich in mineral resources, which attracted companies to the otherwise barren planet. In addition to mining colonies, Caprice is home to Gomorrah, a city of sin. Liberati, a group of rebels, opposed the abuses of the corporations. Their attacks led the companies to turn to the Human Concordant for help. Rather than crack down on the Liberati, the Concordant conducted an investigation. It found widespread corruption and abuses of power. A new government was formed and a uneasy peace between the Liberati and corporations was created. The fall of the Human Concordant brought hard times for Caprice, as trade slowed to a trickle. Some time later the CEF conquered Caprice. This was an easy matter, as the population was clustered in the Cat's Eye Trench and was vulnerable to orbital bombardment. The Capricians had little choice but to surrender. There are factions on Caprice that are loyal to the CEF and ones that oppose its rule.

Eden was a lush planet, hence its name. It was turned into a leisure world. The resorts became the kingdoms of present-day Eden. Unlike Caprice, Eden resisted conquest by the CEF. However, their light Golems were no match for hovertanks. Some Edenites have been conscripted to fight for the CEF. Others are still free and are waging a rebellion. The invasion devastated the planet not through war, but through an accident. Edenite scientists were operating interstellar gates when the CEF forces arrived. Some gates exploded showering the planet in radiation and debris. This has devastated the plant life on the planet.

Utopia did not have the favorable atmosphere of Eden, or the mineral resources Caprice. It is a small miracle that it was settled at all. In the end the planet was terraformed to house the growing human population. After the withdrawal of the Concordant, the rule of Utopia was divided amongst five major countries. Soon a war broke out between two of the countries. This led the powers to realign into three super states. Then came the Great War. The use of anti-matter weapons devastated the planet. The population was now holed up in bunkers. Rather than invade the planet, the CEF allied with the Steelgate Republic, which then conquered the planet.


Utopia

Had another question:

edit: nevermind, found the answer.

The only gaming group in my country has one player with a Heavy Gear starter and nobody liked the game. They said the minis were too small for the price. They told that player he´s going to play against a mirror. These people normally pay GW price of $130 for a battleforce.

Capt. Camping wrote:The only gaming group in my country has one player with a Heavy Gear starter and nobody liked the game. They said the minis were too small for the price. They told that player he´s going to play against a mirror. These people normally pay GW price of $130 for a battleforce.

Its odd that they did not like the game, many people really like the ruleset.

The price is another matter. Heavy Gear stuff is not cheap. However, you do not need that many minis to play. One of the big tourneys was won by a guy with five minis. Twenty minis would be a more typical force. In all, it is less then a third of the cost of a GW army.

Yeah I know in the long run an army cost less than 40K.

Now I remember there was another guy interested in Heavy Gear, but he bought more GW minis, LOL. The guys here are now playing Infinity.

Just for consideration, I'm looking at bringing a Black Talon army to Gencon that is 800 TV and consists of:

2 Dark Nagas (Tall, two-legged Striders)
1 Dark Coyote (short, 4-legged Tankstrider)
a Caprician Patrol Squad (4 4-legged bug-walkers)

That's it. Relatively cheap force, although he Caprice stuff is a bit large for the point cost, so not the cheapest.

Vertrucio wrote:Hi guys, anyone have any good or bad general impressions after playing or owning the game for a significant time?

My only problem with the game is the rules...and it's not so much the rules themselves but how they're written. It almost feels like someone was carrying the original version to the printer when they fell down a flight of stairs and had to put the pages back together without page numbers printed on them. They're very disjointed. Not only that but there are next to no examples to illustrate key concepts...just "here's this complicated rule, next topic". If they would just release a series of battle reports with turn by turn, step by step details there would be light bulbs going off all over the place. However, as it stands you better know someone who plays because trying to figure it out on your own is no small task...and even then your "mentor" may not even have it right.

Brests of War is having a Heavy Gear week. All starter sets are on sale.

tried figuring out how to play the free sample 2 player kit of beasts of war and my friend and i are having problems with it mainly because we believe and see that the rules given in the sample paper starter are missing explanations of rules or rules all together because its just to get us interested in it, etc.
one thing we keep getting frustrated with (although hilarious most of the time) is how hard it is to hit everything.

will it help if i have the core rulebook and locked and loaded because im pretty sure it will.

the real 2 player starter kit is on its way and i was wondering if both the locked and loaded book and core rulebook are up to date with all the factions including NuCoal, Utopia, etc.

It is actually difficult to actually hit something, moreso in the basic rules. The way the basic dice rolling is, roll X, keep 1 means that possible outcome values are low.

The full game is all about stacking bonuses to hit and there are various ways to do that.

First, each combat group leader can declare a single enemy model for focused fire as an action, giving all models in that combat group a +1 when shooting the target model.

Reaction fire (aka overwatch) is built into the game. If a model has an action reserved, or hasn't taken an action yet, it may spend it during the enemy's turn to fire on him as they move. Use this to shoot enemies as they break cover to move.

To cancel out range modifiers, you'll want to use the various movement modes to close in to optimal range. The same goes for cover. Since you can shoot at any point during movement, you can fire at optimal range and when your enemy is in the open to you, while you yourself will head back into cover at the end of your movement.

For some extra damage, use RoF in burst mode to increase your weapon damage by 1 for every RoF used, useful for when you hit, but without enough margin of success to cause damage.

Use indirect fire as well. All those rocket pods have a purpose in the game, allowing you run a scout up the side to spot an enemy in the open, giving a +1 to the model. The same goes for hang grenades.

Try using the full rules with all the paper cut outs from the beasts of war quickstart rules.

One confusing thing for me is, what is the purpose of all those ammo bubbles on the cards? It looks like in the rules that ammo isn't tracked unless you fire in RoF mode and roll poorly.

Vertrucio wrote:One confusing thing for me is, what is the purpose of all those ammo bubbles on the cards? It looks like in the rules that ammo isn't tracked unless you fire in RoF mode and roll poorly.

There's two general 'classes' of ammo tracking:
1. Most weapons go OOA (Out of Ammo) on a bad roll. These may have reloads, which can be used to, er, reload.
2. Some weapons, mostly "big guns" like guided missiles or weapons with very limited ammo, may have the bubbles, which represents how many shots that weapon has.

Now that you guys talk about how confusing the Heavy Gears rules are. The only Heavy Gear player we have here he said Dust Tactics rules are confusing and difficult to master. If you compare both, what rules are better written then?

I haven't read the dust tactics rules.

The HG rules are small and concise actually, but a few things still need a little more exact info about timing and writing so that it doesn't make assumptions about the player.

Reaction fire is one such rule as while it's clear on timing, could use a little more exact info about what and when you can hold or use an action for it, and when units gain an action to hold.

There's also some things that don't use standard wargaming terminology, partly because it doesn't quite work as standard. Things like Combat lock.

Very good game . Lot of fun and tactical depth and very cool figs . Tanks are very nasty too in the game . Worth a try . I have a bit of stuff for it as well I put together a 4x 4 city table for it . Who doesn't like urban mech combat . Try it out