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Hi Guys,

Figured I would return and get the ball rolling like I did in 5th ed. This is to be a tactica thread for the discussing and sharing of ideas and experience. Please keep this in mind and that what I am posting is purely my take on where the Tau stand with the new rules. If you disagree, then please do so politely.


6th ed is a pretty big change and will require more adaptation of our armies than a first glance would suggest. To help speed up the adapation process, I am creating this thread as a form of reference to be used until the Tau get their update(Guessing within 1&1/2 years, am hoping for April next year to make a clean 7 years of this one but won't be suprised to see them post-poned until April 2014).

There will be First, a brief overview of how I think that 6th ed will effect the Tau. Then Second, discuss where the wargear and units stand. Third, will be to finish with some build ideas and table top tactics.

After that I will leave the floor open for others to add/discuss new options.

*Colour Key:
Yellow = Item or unit changed by 6th ed to be improved overall

Orange = Item or unit changed/affected by 6th ed but, overall stayed about same or remained useful/points efficient(Well as pts efficient as anything in this old 'dex can be). Basically moved laterally.

Red = Item or unit changed to be worse overall and/or now possibly questionable choices. (Also used to remove mistakes)

Cyan=Acknoledgements, annoucements and Headings.

No Colour means no real change


6TH ED
I am very positive about 6th ed. It is designed in a manner that works very well with the Tau style of Ranged Mobilty Combat or Manoeuvre Warfare.
The positives are an increased focus on shooting(Overwatch and reduced cover saves), unit positioning(New wound allocation of closest models) and 2 out of 3 deployments will allow the Tau army to actually benefit from its agility.
The negatives of 6th ed, so far, are increased movement and that most othe armies received one of the Tau's signature tricks(Shooting effectively on the move).

After a few games, I feel confident in saying that the 5th ed Tau style of castling is only viable for 1 turn in the "Hammer and Anvil & Vanguard Strike deployments and completely useless in the "Dawn of War" deployment. We are going to have to actually move our units from first turn on in most scenarios/games. Again, this is a very different edition that not only significantly changed the Tau but also our opponents armies. New tactics will have to be developed to deal with not only the increased biker, jump and the new flyer lists...but also the new game restrictions on how much of your army can be reserved.



BATTLESUIT WARGEAR


1)ASS- Broke even because of new S&P. Yes, you now move normally in the movement phase but the S&P USR prevents the unit from both running and/or using Overwatch in the turn that you use the ASS. This and Snap-fire mean that the ASS is not an automatic choice for Broadsides.

2)Blacksun Filter- Now negates Night Fight completely and whole unit benefits from one model equipped with such.( Huge buff to Broadsides, Hammerheads, Fire Warriors and Pathfinders)

3)Bonding Knife- Better, but not really needed for units numbering 8 or less. New regroup rules are no negatives until unit is under 25%. At 8 models that means no penalty until only one model left.

4)C&C node- Still useless/gone

5) Drone Controller/Drones- Drones just became much better for Tau teams. They can perform "Look out Sir", be placed to where they almost always are the closest model for wound allocation and.....................The new Sweeping Advance rules allow the unit trying to escape to use the highest single initiative in the unit. Drones with their I4, just gave the Tau an even chace of escaping most SM's.

6)Ejection System-Now good for saving a couple of VP in missions that give bonus for killing warlord. (Especially with Challenges)

7)Failsafe Detonator- Same as before.

8)Iridium Armour- Big Buff, rule changes just made 2+ save much better.(Most PW's are AP 3 now). Still keeps the D6 assault movement, (so no 2d6 2+ armor assault).
Thanks to Luford for pointing out that I had failed to note the movement stayed the same here.
*Note-Needs faq-ing due to old wording in the rule.

9)Markerlights- Can now Snap Shot while moving but can not help boost other models Snap Shots. Kind of broke even here until we get a new Faq or rulebook.

10)Multi-tracker- Still the same and is useful depending upon player build philosophy. Actually, with Snap Shots, this wargear is now in a tight race with Twin-linking as to being the go to trick. So its the same old question, more dice or re-rolls.

11)Posi-relay- New reserves rules leave this wargear not quite as useful. I have taken this item religiously in 5th ed but, now view it as optional.

12)Shield Generator- Same as before but less needed due to Look out Sir rule. (Shield and gun drones just got that much better.)

13)Stimulant Injector- Went sideways here. FNP save was nerfed from 4+ to 5+ but is now good against AP 1 & 2 weapons. Only Insta-death blows through FNP now. Up to player build philosophy here.

14)Target Array- Target arrays are not allowed to modify snap-fire/overwatch. Otherwise are the same.
Reason for this is that it ADDS +1 to BS but the rule book states that Fixed values are applied last.
Thanks to DKvistS for noticing the modifier rules wording here.

Due to the TA's not improving Snap Shots, I'd say that they almost broke even in this ruleset except that Twin-linking, flamers and multi trackers got a lot better. In the competition for Hard-points on the crisis suits though, I feel that they will be used less in this edition.

15)Target Lock- Huzzah, the lost the Target Lock was an error now corrected by the 1.1 faq. The Target lock is now basically unchanged but does become a bit more useful in 6th ed due to units using the ADL gun emplacements.

16)Vectored Thrusters-A little better. Now the whole unit might Hit & Run due to the new rules. There is a question as to whether the restriction on the unit being IC or single model only applies to purchasing or does it in fact limit the model to only having H&R when by itself.
Thanks to Tun-Tau for catching this one.



VEHICLE UPGRADES


Blacksun Filter- Now negates Night Fight completely and whole unit benefits from one model equipped with such.( Huge buff to Broadsides, Hammerheads, Fire Warriors and Pathfinders)

Decoy Launchers- Improved but, depends on the AP of the Weapon that Pentrated and if you are playing Big Guns never Tire Mission,
It comes down to just how many points should be invested in something that "IS" most likely going to be wrecked(Glanced to death).

Disruption Pod- Huzzah, 1.1 Faq made these rediculously good. The Dis pods now confer shrouded onto the vehicle for hits from shooting attacks more than 12" away. This stacked with the Jink save, that flat-out happens in the movement phase and that sensorspines allowing the vehicle to make use of terrain for cover and we now have the games most durable mobile shield wall for our troops units.(In your face all of you naysayers that told me the dis pod would never change to the shrouded rule )

Flechettes- Stayed mostly the same but with wounds coming from the front and random charge length, there may be an occasion where the assault will fail due to wounds caused.

Multi-Tracker- The new move and shoot rules combined with the multi-tracker puts us back at 4th edition level of fire power.

Sensor Spines-Mostly the same but can greatly increase the vehicles survivability and with the new Obscured/cover and terrain rules.
Again, How much to invest.(May Improve to yellow later.)

Target Array- Stayed the same.

Target Lock- Stayed the same but are better due to the new vehicle movement and shooing rules. Multi-trackers and Target Locks allow the Hammerhead to be more mobile/aggressive.



WEAPONS


Airburst Fragmentation Projector- Stayed the same. Note- Can not be used for Snap Shot or Overwatch.

Burst Cannon-Got a little better this edition because of its volume of fire and the Overwatch/Snap Shot rule. The only real negative is that the Tau already have plenty of S5 AP5 weapons. I'd say that they are good on the units that already come equipped with them(Stealth Teams, D-fish) and on the Hammerhead. Not so much on Crisis suits unless doing the 3 weapon load out on a Commander/Team leader thing.

Cyclic Ion Blaster-Got better this edition because of its volume of fire and the Overwatch/Snap Shot rule. Now makes for very good pairing with either the Plasma Rifle or Burst Cannon.

EMP Grenades- Buffed by new Assaulting Vehicle rules. Must remember that until we get a FAQ saying otherwise, EMP grenades are not the same as Haywire and as such do not have the ability to be thrown. For now they are weaker and more expensive versions of Haywires that don't get to use the special rules for Haywires

Flamer- Overwatch makes this the perfect anti-assault weapon for the Tau Crisis suits. Take as the secondary weapon when buying Missiles, Fusion or Plasma if you are aggressive with your suits.

Fusion Blaster- Improved by the new Deepstrike rules that allow better survivability for teams equipped with them.

Kroot Gun-Improved by new Rapid Fire rules and the Overwatch USR

Kroot Rifle-Improved by new Rapid Fire rules and the Overwatch USR

Missilepod- Roll changed to glancing vehicles to death. Aside from this, remained the same.

Ion Cannon- Improved by the glaces/Hull points rule. Hurt by the AP3 vehicle chart. Overall an improvement.

Photon Grenades- Better. Might need to be taken due to the amount of time FWs will spend outside of their transports
Whoops- The entry for Defensive grenades does indeed specifically mention Photons.
Thanks for catching my mistake Jadenim. I missed it the first time around

Plasma Rifle- Stayed same/broke even for the Tau. Might see more use due to overwatch and that terminators will be more prevalent.

Pulse Carbines-Lost effectiveness compared to other weapons available

Pulse Rifles- Improved by new Rapid Fire rules and the Overwatch USR

Railgun-Reduced vehicle coversaves and the AP1 damage chart overall means that the weapon has improved..

Railgun (Hammerhead)-Reduced vehicle coversaves and the AP1 damage chart makes for an overall improvement compared to other AT weapons, The new rules for Blast weapons makes it even better.

Rail Rifle- Slightly improved by Overwatch/Snap Shots. Still feel they mostly broke even because of the handi-capped manner in which we get access to them and with the loss of the target locks on the teams that could take them.

Seeker Missiles- Stayed the same due to faq stating that Markerlights effects do not work during Shnap Shot/Overwatch.

SMS- Marginally better, because the defensive weapon rule is gone. Also think the Focus Fire rule will help for shots on an enemy units back end when they leave models straggling outside of cover. opponent will leave a unit front half in cover, back half out of cover trusting in the Front to back wound allocation and that you don't have LoS. (This of course is mainly good against GEQ and hoardes.)


UNITS

Broadsides- They got better in this edition and are now great with the return of their target locks. The abiliy to move and Snap Shot means less reliance on the ASS. Put a Blacksun filter and Hard-wired Target lock on the Team Leader, take multi-trackers as the Teams wargear and sprinkle in two shield drones, Presto, you've got a much better unit than before.


Crisis Suits- They about broke even in this edition. With new regroup rules teams of 2 or 3 are both good/efficient points wise.
Pros:
1) Can assault move after deep strike.(Makes deepstriking better in general and allows for safer use of Fusion Blasters).
2) Can Assault move after Run move. Aside from walkers Jet-packs are the only unit that can now do this. (Potential total movement is 9"-24" if not shooting, This mean that if we really have to get somewhere we average about 16" instead of the old 12"
XXX DOH- Unit does not get Hammer of Wrath.XXX
Thanks Pottsey, I read the Jump-infantry section like the one in 5th ed where they were Jump-infantry with different movement.

Cons:
1)Everybody can shoot full distance on the move now. This means that the crisis teams with their 18-24" range weapons will almost always be in rapid fire range and thus subjected to much more small arms fire than in the past. (Plasma just became as good of a friend to our enemies as it has been to us. This is a big nerf, IMO)
2)Unreliable movement. 2d6 assault is just not reliable for the purposes of how the crisis teams are designed.

*The two negatives combined mean that now, if we roll good and fall back to where we are safe, it means that we won't be in range the next turn.


Devilfish- This is tough. I'll say that they went sideways here. Didn't really lose any ground compared to other armies transports. Just a less survivable enviroment for vehicles overall. I would say that it has been buffed by that it can now, when equipped with multi-tracker, move 12" and fire everything. But, being limited to S5 AP5 short range weapons and a moderate # of shots just means that it is only good for shooting small light infantry squads and AV10. This edition looks to be favouring more Horde, Heavy Infantry and AV12+.

Note*-On the bright side, the Jink save stacks with the now Faq'ed to be much improved Disruption pods stealth on attacks from more than 12" away. This means that when equipped with dis pods and sensor spines, the Tau vehicle will get 3+ to 2+ coversaves for most of the game. It is for this reason that the D-fish is now rated as improved.
I suggest being be aggressive with getting your troops where they need to be while you have the transports. Once they are in assault range they will fold like a cheap card table.
BTW, Jetpacks have the bulky rule which mean they count as 2 models for purposes of transport........Will have to see if the rulebook restriction gets faq'ed out later.


Fire Warriors -Much Improved with the new Rapid Fire rules and with Blacksun Filters on the team leader helping the whole squad.
With how easily transports are popped in this ed(Necrons) I recommend the Shas'ui Team lead with HWbsf and possibly a HWdc w/gundrone. Bonding knives are mostly unnecessary until the team numbers 9 or more models.


Hammerheads-Both Ion Cannons and Railguns are better under these rules. Also, It is back to its 4th ed goodness of moving 12" and firing everything when equipped with the Multi-tracker.
Down side? Much like the Devilfish, "How much do you want to spend on a model that is easily glaced to death by Gauss weapons, Auto Cannons and missile spam ?".
I see many players opting for 2 broaside teams of 2 and one Ion head in games under 2000 pt.
Note*-Hammer head is now much more viable due to the 6th ed 1.1 faq concerning disruption pods. Look at 2 hammerheads with 1 squad of 3 broadsides in larger games.


Kroot- Buffed by the new regroup/sweep advance rules and the new RF rules might make the Krootox viable .
Nerfed by reduced cover save and the new template rules.
I'd say that they about broke even.


Pathfinders- Improved with Snap Shot and that the markerlights won't have to focus as much on removing cover.
Their Devifish is more of a limiting factor now and will most likely will take some different wargear.


Piranha *Upgraded due to 1.1 faq.* Between the new vehicle squadron damage allocation rules, disembarkation rules and the new Disruption pod faq, The Pirahnas are pure win.
*Note-Gun drones have to disembark before the vehicle moves if you want to move the vehicle/squadron more than 6". On the bright side, they disembark up to 6" away from hull and can still run and assault move.
For now, Piranhas continue to be the most efficient use of flechettes.


Sky Rays- NO SKYFIRE as of yet. WTF? Will stay rarely played until they get a purpose that makes them worth taking.
(If GW is listening, think razorbacks style transport for Pathfinders)


Sniper Drones- Overall Improved. (Now even better due to the 6th ed 1.1 faq returning our targetlocks) Stealth Field Generators now convey the Shrouded and Stealth USR's while losing the 2d6x3 spotting distance. Will have to see if using the new wound allocation (By castling/shielding the FW/drone controller inside of his sniper drones) makes the team more survivable than before.
Maybe place them on a table edge or with back against a LOS blocking wall.
*Note-Could now be the Tau unit of choice to man the ADL gun emplacement in non allied armies. Will have to see how they work versus other options.


Stealth Teams- Lost the can't be targeted outside of 36" and their target locks but gained +3 to cover and have 4+ cover in the open. Much better survivability but begs the question,"Give up an elite slot for more S5 AP5 shooting?". May be usable as protection for the commanders. Will revise later after some play-testing.
XXXJetpack units do not have Hammer of WrathXXX
Edited correction. Thanks Pottsey and elrabin.
(Feel kind of meh here until stealthsuits get other weapon options. Will try and see how works with glancing and other rules and will revise later.)


Vespids- They are improved and never have been really bad. The question is are they good enough to compete with the other choices in the FA slot. They got closer with these rules but not quite there yet, IMO. I say try them after you've bought your Pathfinders. They are fun for killing meq's.... .



BUILD IDEAS


A) Fire warrior Teams with a model count of 8 or less, can easily do without Bonding Knives. Spend the points on the cheaper BSF. Even at 9 models, you don't get under 25% until the unit has only 2 models left.
Recommend FW teams of: Shas'ui w/ hwbsf & hwdc+gun drone and 5-6 FW.

B)Twin-linking of certain weapons on battlesuits make them more effective on shooting and painful for your opponent to assault. (My suggestions are to Twin-link Plasmas, Flamers, or Missile Pods.)

C)Flamers are a good choice for Crisis Teams equipped with Fusion Blasters. Up to the player whether they want to twin link the FB's or the Flamers. Both have their benefits.

D)Take Photons Grenades because of how much time the unit will spend outside of their transposrts. Buy EMP's for the Team leaders only if it is allowed(You can buy emp's for the whole team but this eats up a lot of points).

E) Sticking an Ethereal in with one of your Broadside teams will make them Fearless. A chancey move but if you move your army up, you can mitigate lossing units if he dies. (For you sickos that want to kamikazi the ethereal If you stick him in front he takes all the wounds for the unit until dead... Just make sure that you have a leadership buff to that unit. Shadowsun might be worth while in this situation.)

F)Joining a Crisis commander or two to a Stealth team looks to make for a fairly solid unit. (Hint: Play around with the Special issue wargear and 1 Shas'O and 1 Shas-el. Failsafe detonator on one and Vectored thrust on the other (If Vectored thrust can join other teams)

G)Look to build more infantry oriented lists with minimum transports
(1-2 Pathfinder D-fish and 1 Hammerhead)

H)A unit of 10 Kroot and 2 Krootox fit into a Devifish. Have them jump into the Pathfinder D-fish while leaving your FW out on foot. Get the Kroot into position to RF the Kroot Gun on some rear/side armour and disembark.

I)Piranhas are nice but if strapped for points, remember your Gun drone squadrons.

J)Drones are much better(Duh), but not just the ones on controllers but also the independent gundrone squadrons. Here is my point:
Take 2 Crisis Commanders w/ a shield drone each and join to a gun drone squadron totaling 4 drones , (You can do this with regular commanders. It is also a way to run Farsight Cheap but if you do, put to shield drones on the other commander to keep the unit at T4 ).48 points for all those ablative wounds without tying up a crisis team by having them on Baby sitting duty is nice.

K)On your Crisis teams, don't hesitate to run them at 3 strong(With at least one drone). Your going to want to have that upgrade character that can occasionally challenge and force the opponents PF guy to only killing him.

L)When building your teams with Missile Pods, design them to lay out 3 glances a turn if unsupported by markerlights. This is because the pathfinders are going to be moving (hopscotch, one team on one turn and the other on the next turn.) With the PF's moving they are going to generate only a 2-3 hits a turn with 2 teams of 5.

M)Stealth teams are better but still a lot of points and an elite slot for something that just doesn't have that much damage output. The best use I've found for them is to take 3-4 stealthsuits, one with FB and a Team Lead w/ 2 gundrones, then have them escort a crisis commander that is equipped with a FB and TLBC. This is a solid line-blocking unit that has decent anti-tank.

N) With Tanks being so easily glanced to death in this edition, I think that the Tau are stronger as a foot/jump list. In an 1850 point list, outside of troops, I'm looking to run maybe 3 Crisis teams, 2 PF squads(Gives 2 DF) and one Hammerhead(Ion or Rail, both are good). Then run 2 broadside teams of 2 with Plasma, shield drones and multi-trackers.

Will edit add/remove suggestions depending upon how things evolve.



BUILD IDEAS-ALLIANCES


The First that I would recommend is a simple alliance of Tau and Eldar.

Take a Jetseer w/ Fortune, Doom and Guide. Add Spirit Stones, a Singing Spear and put into a Guardian Jetbike squad that has 6 Guardians and a Warlock (with Embolden, Destructor, or Enhance.....take your pick). Done.

From there you can bring in a War Walker Squadron or a unit of Harlies to baby sit the Broadsides. Really you can do a lot from this starting point.
*Note, if choosing Psychic powers for the BRB, The divination table seems to offer the most chance for force multiplication.


BTW, Eldar are the best choice for manning your fortifications (I suggested some unit combinations in the Fortification section that follows this one).


Based upon recent Feedback, Farsight is prettygood when combined with allies. Lets hope that they remove the madatory point limit so that he can be taken as the ally as opposed to having to be the main force.


*Note- Due to personal prejudice , It will be up to you guys to come up with SM ally suggestions. If you guys come up with something good, I will add it in to this section.

IHateNids wrote:What, you mean a Tac Squad w/ Lascannon, Flamer & Razorback? Combat Squad the Lascannon into cover with some Broardsides, the Flamer onto an Objective, drive around going 'pew pew' with the Razorback. Topped off with a TDA Captain w/ TH/SS Nators in a LR?

or have i completely missed the point?

Ah, I think you nailed it pretty good IHateNids.


Will bring more ideas, soon. Please feel free to discuss here. Anything good that we come up with will go into the Tactica list with credit given to those that contributed.



BUILD IDEAS-FORTIFICATIONS


After much consideration, IMO, the Tau should only look at the Aegis Defense line.

I will admit that my reasoning for this is in part due to the Tau fluff of not valuing such fortifications.

The other reasons are that the Aegis line fits the Tau playstyle and will probably work better with their Eldar Allies*.
*Put a Fortune/Guide Farseer joined to a Ranger Squad(Have the Farseer manning the gun)
or
take 3 Dark Reapers and upgrade the exarch with Fast Shot and maybe Crack shot. Drop farsser in to twin link the Icarus that is now either Heavy 1 ignores cover or Heavy 2. Enjoy.




ON THE TABLE


Warlord Traits- Roll on either Commander or Strategic Traits list. Personal traits have no real value for Tau armies. Many of you are stating a preference for the Strategic traits, I am leaving the Commander traits as a suggestion because, IMO, it offers just as many buffs. It is a matter of playstyle.

In Dawn of war you just cannot castle up. the new improved movement, fly over abilities and tesla make doing so almost an auto-lose. The other deployments give a bit more breathing room but, seriously, mobility is the name of the game in 6th.

Reserving 1/2 of your troop choices and maybe a heavy against shooty or non-horde armies can help to give you some walk on objective seizing units later in the game. Use the Posi-relay to hold them back while you start moving your army away from your deployment zone objectives or be prepared to move out in the first turn. This is to draw the enemy away so that you can bring the units on safely and maybe create a cross-fire situation.

Full Ninja Tau is dead in this ruleset. This is due to limitations on how much of your force you can leave in reserve. Instead you use the Posi-relay to contol when a few key units hit the field.

Remember that now your Kroot are now deadly when assault rear armour 10. Crisis suits are good to glance rear armour 11 if your shooting fails you.

Units with 4 drones taken as wargear should deploy and position themselves with 2-3 drones in front and at least one in the rear. this means that if your team is assaulted and then looses the assault, you get to use I4 in the sweeping advance roll-off.

Take basic Team leaders (Shas'ui/Shas'vre) in your units. In assault they can challenge. If the opponent accepts then they fight seperate. This is a way to keep that one CC monster hidden in the plain Jane unit from wiping the whole squad with his 8 re-rollable PW attacks.

Imo, we are back to using Kroot to deal with the Necron Lords and basic troops. The easiest way to make sure that a Lord doesn't get back up is to have the spot were he fell covered by your units. seeing as they get back up at the end of every phase, this means that you have to either assault him or run a unit onto the spot he fell after you drop him from shooting. If the lord cannot be placed within 3" of where he fell without being within 1" of an enemy model, he cannot attempt to repair protocol.(Just an idea)


There are more ideas and tricks that I use but is getting late and want to let you guys start to discuss/comment and add your views/ideas.

Please, no Tau bashing, trolling or such. I want for this to be an open discussion and a thread for sharing of ideas of how to make an old codex work until it gets updated.

Last Updated on 10 Sep '12

Sky Rays- NO SKYFIRE as of yet. WTF? Will stay rarely played until they get a purpose that makes them worth taking.

Seeker missles count as BS5, even against flyers due to the ruling on it in the FAQ. So long as you can get a 6 on those markerlight shots on a flyer, it'll hit.

The ruling states that ANYTHING that would reduce it to BS1, it still fires at BS5, so thus it fires at BS5 at all times with no penalty.

*Pinches Self*
Am I dreaming? Or are you really back, it has been a long time since I've seen you poke your head around here!
Anyways to get the ball rolling.

Since, IIRC shooting at flyers is snap-shot unless you have sky-fire, targetting arrays can mitigate that a fair bit, as they effectivley double the amount of hits we get, I daresay since most flyers are AV10-11, a team of suits with T/L missiles should be able to take down any squadron with ease if you give them targetting arrays.

Additionally as jet packers still move in the assault phase like jump infantry, we can, in the assault phase move our battlesuits onto impassable terrain (as long as they fit) making them unable to be assaulted by anything without jump packs or jet packs.

That's all I have for now, will be checking this thread regularly.

First off, Hi FF. Been a long time, good to see you come out of the woodwork.


Love that you are doing another one of these threads, last one was really good.

BTW, nice catch on the Targeting arrays boosting our Overwatch and snap-fire.

Also good catch on the grenades not getting the rules until faq'ed. Was really looking forward to using those rules but finding out now is better than later.

As to Tactics, Ideas and C&C......Let me get back to you on that after a few more games.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Sky Rays- NO SKYFIRE as of yet. WTF? Will stay rarely played until they get a purpose that makes them worth taking.

Seeker missles count as BS5, even against flyers due to the ruling on it in the FAQ. So long as you can get a 6 on those markerlight shots on a flyer, it'll hit.

The ruling states that ANYTHING that would reduce it to BS1, it still fires at BS5, so thus it fires at BS5 at all times with no penalty.

I think that for the 5 or so marker hits you will get in the 2-3 turns that the pathfinders are alive and ignoring the rest of the enemy that is wiping you from the board, that you could just as easily buy them for your other vehicles without wasting the Heavy slot or the points on a Sky Ray.

Also, Imo, it is better to spread the seekers around so that you don't lose them on a first turn lucky shot on the only vehicle with them.

I think the new shooting rules will make Fireknife teams a little better vs meq. Before, I had to weigh the ramifications to firing both plasma and missiles at taq squads, I would often find myself making the sergeant or whatever important trooper take a save while his squad died. Now rolling 5 plasma wounds is indeed 5 deaths.

I've noticed that with the new vehicle rules str 7 Missile pods aren't half bad at killing transports now.

focusedfire wrote:
Crisis Suits- They about broke even in this edition. With new regroup rules teams of 2 or 3 are both good/efficient points wise.
Pros:
1) Can assault move after deep strike.(Makes deepstriking better in general and allows for safer use of Fusion Blasters)
2) Can Assault move after Run move. (Potential total movement is 9"-24" if not shooting, This mean that if we really have to get somewhere we average about 16" instead of the old 12")
3) Hammer of Wrath allows assaulting as an option on lone models that are a threat when they get to launch the assault.

I am a bit confused 1 and 2 we could do before in 5th so not new pros and we do not have hammer of Wrath as suits are not Jump infantry. Battlesuits are infantry (jet) which does not give Hammer of Wrath.

Stealth suits are better than you think, commanders with drones can join them and gain 2+ cover saves and it looks like outflank and infiltrate. Farsite is perhaps now the best CC special IDin game as he allows preferred enemy against shooting orks and has ignore armor against 2+

Twin link plasma with flamer is a nightmare for people to charge and a Stealth based army can have almost the entire army with 2+ cover saves.

EDIT: Sniper teams also get that 2+ cover save.
EDIT2:
I don’t have the rulebook right now but why do you lower BS to 1 then add on target array? Wouldn’t it be add on target array then lower to BS1 for snapfire/over watch?

6) Your point with ejection is valid, but also wouldn't this save ongoing warlord effects for alittle longer, guess he is still our warlord even though he lost his suit.
13) The rulebook states that the order of modifiers are: multipliers, additions, and then fixed values. So I would say it goes bs3->TA->bs4->snapfire->bs1.
Im going to try games with a group of 10 kroots and 3 krootox to se if they can compete with deathrain squads.
I know that a group of krootox only make 1/3 hits of a deathrain squad, but the extra range and wound count might make up for it, also they are scoring units.
Still think Im going to have my firewarriors sitting in a devilfish.

I'm not sure why you think Photon grenades don't work; OK you can't throw them but they are actually used as the example for defensive grenades.

Also, do you think the principle from the old FAQ still applies, in that you only need one model to be equipped with grenades for the entire squad to benefit. (Still seems to be in the new GK FAQ)

Vectored retro-thrusters got a lot better- join a unit to give them all hit-and-run. I have a feeling a stealthsuit squad with a shas'o with vectored retro-thrusters is going to become our command squad set up.

Jadenim wrote:I'm not sure why you think Photon grenades don't work; OK you can't throw them but they are actually used as the example for defensive grenades.

Also, do you think the principle from the old FAQ still applies, in that you only need one model to be equipped with grenades for the entire squad to benefit. (Still seems to be in the new GK FAQ)

Yeah, photon grenades are explicitly stated as being defensive grenades in the codex. EMP grenades should function exactly as they did before (codex states they are used in assaults like grenades and meltabombs). For Firewarrior and Pathfinder teams, if you buy grenades (Photon or EMP), they must be purchased for the whole unit.

focusedfire wrote:1)ASS- Better because of new S&P rules but not an automatic choice for Broadsides due to Target Arrays.(Will cover this under TA's)

I think preferred the old rules. The new S&P rules prevent you from running and using overwatch. TL rails or TL plasma on overwatch is still pretty scary, particularly if your opponent is charging with a small number of models.

focusedfire wrote:13)Target Array- Just became the new Tau goodness until faq'ed otherwise. Reason for this is that it ADDS +1 to BS. Now in conjunction with Overwhatch & Snap-Fire. it has suits at BS 2. This creates a choice for Tau players on their:

This isn't true. With the way modifiers are applied (multiply, then add/subtract, then set), TAs or Markerlight boosts still leave the firing unit at BS1 when firing Snap Shots (including Overwatch).

focusedfire wrote:Crisis Suits- They about broke even in this edition. With new regroup rules teams of 2 or 3 are both good/efficient points wise.
Pros:
1) Can assault move after deep strike.(Makes deepstriking better in general and allows for safer use of Fusion Blasters)

Just like in 5th, Jet Pack Infantry can use their Jet Pack move in the Assault Phase after they Deep Strike. However, remember that the Tau Codex forbids units in XV8 or Stealth Suits from performing this move after a Deep Strike. So the only unit (that I'm aware of) that can take advantage of this rule are Gun Drones. edit: nevermind, this was removed in the FAQ. Fantastic.

And like others pointed out, Jet Packs are no longer a sub-class of Jump Infantry, so we don't get Hammer of Wrath.

focusedfire wrote:Stealth Teams- Lost the can't be targeted outside of 36" but gained +3 to cover and have 4+ cover in the open. Much better survivability but begs the question,"Give up an elite slot for more S5 AP5 shooting?".
A full team of 6 with some drones might make Hammer of Wrath work for this unit. Then again, maybe not.

I'm really beginning to like the idea of bringing a Stealth Team. With bigger deployment zones (short table edges and diagonal), if your opponent sets up on the line you should have enough space to Infiltrate a small unit behind your opponent (even in LOS). This gives you Line Breaker (as long as they live), and also allows them to shoot at rear armor 10/11. Many armies will ignore the Stealth Suits for a while, because Broadsides and Crisis Suits are pretty scary. 4+ cover in the open is fantastic, and if they can jump behind intervening cover, they get a 2+.

focusedfire wrote:Devilfish- This is tough.
The Dispod became useful only on first turn and when vehicle is stunned. Thing is that by the time the vehicle is stunned it is already wrecked or just about their. Hard to say if it is even worth 5 points.
The Decoy launchers are in the same boat. While they are much improved, just how many points should be invested in something that "IS" most likely going to be wrecked.
Sensor Spines can greatly increase the vehicles survivability and with the new terrain rules they can really help. Again, How much to invest.
The only ones I would recommend are Target array and Multi-track.(Same ol-same ol) Everything else will just have to be experimented with.

Disruption pod is still going to be a must-take, I think. It's not expensive to give one to all of your vehicles, and getting a guaranteed a 5+ on turn 1 well worth it IMO.

Tun_Tau wrote:Vectored retro-thrusters got a lot better- join a unit to give them all hit-and-run. I have a feeling a stealthsuit squad with a shas'o with vectored retro-thrusters is going to become our command squad set up.

I just found out IC without infiltrate cannot join squads with infiltrate :(

focusedfire wrote:Devilfish- This is tough.
The Dispod became useful only on first turn and when vehicle is stunned. Thing is that by the time the vehicle is stunned it is already wrecked or just about their. Hard to say if it is even worth 5 points.
The Decoy launchers are in the same boat. While they are much improved, just how many points should be invested in something that "IS" most likely going to be wrecked.
Sensor Spines can greatly increase the vehicles survivability and with the new terrain rules they can really help. Again, How much to invest.
The only ones I would recommend are Target array and Multi-track.(Same ol-same ol) Everything else will just have to be experimented with.

Disruption pod is still going to be a must-take, I think. It's not expensive to give one to all of your vehicles, and getting a guaranteed a 5+ on turn 1 well worth it IMO.

Hi Krellnus, missed you too. Same goes for you Captain Avatar.
I will only have time to be in here intermitently but really feel that this thread is needed. It has already cleared up a few of my mistakes and shown where there will be a need for some FAQ's. I think with the help of you guys and the rest of dakka, we can come up with a very good reference thread for the Tau players.

Now to answer some questions and acknowledge some good catches by the other posters.

Pottsey wrote:

focusedfire wrote:
Crisis Suits- They about broke even in this edition. With new regroup rules teams of 2 or 3 are both good/efficient points wise.
Pros:
1) Can assault move after deep strike.(Makes deepstriking better in general and allows for safer use of Fusion Blasters)
2) Can Assault move after Run move. (Potential total movement is 9"-24" if not shooting, This mean that if we really have to get somewhere we average about 16" instead of the old 12")
3) Hammer of Wrath allows assaulting as an option on lone models that are a threat when they get to launch the assault.

I am a bit confused 1 and 2 we could do before in 5th so not new pros and we do not have hammer of Wrath as suits are not Jump infantry. Battlesuits are infantry (jet) which does not give Hammer of Wrath.

Stealth suits are better than you think, commanders with drones can join them and gain 2+ cover saves and it looks like outflank and infiltrate. Farsite is perhaps now the best CC special IDin game as he allows preferred enemy against shooting orks and has ignore armor against 2+

Twin link plasma with flamer is a nightmare for people to charge and a Stealth based army can have almost the entire army with 2+ cover saves.

EDIT: Sniper teams also get that 2+ cover save.
EDIT2:
I don’t have the rulebook right now but why do you lower BS to 1 then add on target array? Wouldn’t it be add on target array then lower to BS1 for snapfire/over watch?

1)We could not assault after DSing in 5th.
They put in the Faq's that Jet-packs could assault move after DSing "unless otherwise specifically noted in the codex". Our Codex specifically said that out battlesuits could not. It was the biggest joke of thew 5th ed Faqs. Really teed a lot of us Tau players off.

2)Jet-packs and walkers are the only unit types that can make assault based moves after running in this book. They took assault after run away from most other units. This makes this ability a buff.

DKvistS wrote:6) Your point with ejection is valid, but also wouldn't this save ongoing warlord effects for alittle longer, guess he is still our warlord even though he lost his suit.
13) The rulebook states that the order of modifiers are: multipliers, additions, and then fixed values. So I would say it goes bs3->TA->bs4->snapfire->bs1.

Good catch on the modifiers. Question now is that on pg 7 under the special vs basic rules section it says codex trumps rule book. Also snap-fire overwatch wording is the dreaded "Counts as" as opposed to specifically stating it is BS1. *Sigh* This will end up being a Rules debate so until there is a faq, its best to ask your opponent what they think before trying to use.

I have changed the OP to reflect your catch here.

Jadenim wrote:I'm not sure why you think Photon grenades don't work; OK you can't throw them but they are actually used as the example for defensive grenades.

Also, do you think the principle from the old FAQ still applies, in that you only need one model to be equipped with grenades for the entire squad to benefit. (Still seems to be in the new GK FAQ)

Good catch on the photons, I have noted this in the OP credit given to you. I just missed the reference in my skimming/quick read of the rules.

As to buying Photon grenades for individual models???? By the wording I'd say no on Fire Warriors but maybe on Pathfinders?? Maybe on emp's?? I would wait for a better FAQ before trying to do so.

Tun_Tau wrote:Vectored retro-thrusters got a lot better- join a unit to give them all hit-and-run. I have a feeling a stealthsuit squad with a shas'o with vectored retro-thrusters is going to become our command squad set up.

Good catch, was tired when writing OP and completely missed the Vectored thrusters. Have edited the op with credit given to you.

Very good point with the Commander joined to the Stealth team.

elrabin wrote:

focusedfire wrote:1)ASS- Better because of new S&P rules but not an automatic choice for Broadsides due to Target Arrays.(Will cover this under TA's)

I think preferred the old rules. The new S&P rules prevent you from running and using overwatch. TL rails or TL plasma on overwatch is still pretty scary, particularly if your opponent is charging with a small number of models.

focusedfire wrote:13)Target Array- Just became the new Tau goodness until faq'ed otherwise. Reason for this is that it ADDS +1 to BS. Now in conjunction with Overwhatch & Snap-Fire. it has suits at BS 2. This creates a choice for Tau players on their:

This isn't true. With the way modifiers are applied (multiply, then add/subtract, then set), TAs or Markerlight boosts still leave the firing unit at BS1 when firing Snap Shots (including Overwatch).

focusedfire wrote:Crisis Suits- They about broke even in this edition. With new regroup rules teams of 2 or 3 are both good/efficient points wise.
Pros:
1) Can assault move after deep strike.(Makes deepstriking better in general and allows for safer use of Fusion Blasters)

Just like in 5th, Jet Pack Infantry can use their Jet Pack move in the Assault Phase after they Deep Strike. However, remember that the Tau Codex forbids units in XV8 or Stealth Suits from performing this move after a Deep Strike. So the only unit (that I'm aware of) that can take advantage of this rule are Gun Drones. edit: nevermind, this was removed in the FAQ. Fantastic.

And like others pointed out, Jet Packs are no longer a sub-class of Jump Infantry, so we don't get Hammer of Wrath.

focusedfire wrote:Stealth Teams- Lost the can't be targeted outside of 36" but gained +3 to cover and have 4+ cover in the open. Much better survivability but begs the question,"Give up an elite slot for more S5 AP5 shooting?".
A full team of 6 with some drones might make Hammer of Wrath work for this unit. Then again, maybe not.

I'm really beginning to like the idea of bringing a Stealth Team. With bigger deployment zones (short table edges and diagonal), if your opponent sets up on the line you should have enough space to Infiltrate a small unit behind your opponent (even in LOS). This gives you Line Breaker (as long as they live), and also allows them to shoot at rear armor 10/11. Many armies will ignore the Stealth Suits for a while, because Broadsides and Crisis Suits are pretty scary. 4+ cover in the open is fantastic, and if they can jump behind intervening cover, they get a 2+.

focusedfire wrote:Devilfish- This is tough.
The Dispod became useful only on first turn and when vehicle is stunned. Thing is that by the time the vehicle is stunned it is already wrecked or just about their. Hard to say if it is even worth 5 points.
The Decoy launchers are in the same boat. While they are much improved, just how many points should be invested in something that "IS" most likely going to be wrecked.
Sensor Spines can greatly increase the vehicles survivability and with the new terrain rules they can really help. Again, How much to invest.
The only ones I would recommend are Target array and Multi-track.(Same ol-same ol) Everything else will just have to be experimented with.

Disruption pod is still going to be a must-take, I think. It's not expensive to give one to all of your vehicles, and getting a guaranteed a 5+ on turn 1 well worth it IMO.

1)Good catch on the S&P taking away run and overwatch. Don't think that I will ever take ASS now unless they faq that due to the wording we turn the S&P on and off on a turn by turn basis.

2)Target array rules are now in question because of the use of the words "counts as" as opposed to "will fire at" and because on page 7 and what is said about basic and special rules(Basically that codex trumps rulebook). I have noted that they are in question in the OP.

3)Have corrected the Hammer of Wrath mistake in the OP.

4)I too am beginning to dig on the Stealthsuit possibilities.

5)On Disruption pods....Depends on if you are reserving your pathfinders/devifish. If in reserve they come in moving. If you don't then spend the 5 points. Thing is that I see Sensor Spines being taken again in order to get the vehicles into cover. Eventual the gain versus loss gets to be to much loss in points. Its "is" only 5 points but 5 points here and there can add up. Thats why I think that they went from mandatory in 5th ed to optional in 6th ed.


@Everyone, Thanks for the input so far. Please keep it coming. Also feel free to post which tactics are working in your games.
Later, FF

Could someone with the rulebook double check the rules for commanders and infiltrate? I believe it says commanders (IC) without infiltrate cannot join squads with infiltrate for deployment. But can IC join Stealth Teams after development? Snipers teams make might a good turn 1 protection for IC’s.

A way around this might be for a commander to start with the snipers and split off swapping to the Stealth team after deployment?

Pottsey wrote:Could someone with the rulebook double check the rules for commanders and infiltrate? I believe it says commanders (IC) without infiltrate cannot join squads with infiltrate for deployment. But can IC join Stealth Teams after development? Snipers teams make might a good turn 1 protection for IC’s.

A way around this might be for a commander to start with the snipers and split off swapping to the Stealth team after deployment?

Sorry.
Ok, just found it in the infiltrate rule . It appears you can do it if you come in from reserves however, it only says they can't join during deployment...or am I wrong?

I'd concur with that Tun_Tau, it only excludes ICs from deployment, not moving on, although it will probably be argued over.

@Focusedfire; if I read the codex correctly a Shas'ui can take EMP grenades as an individual, from the armoury. Doesn't work for Photon grenades unfortunately, as they aren't individually listed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the tactics front, I think the Strategic Warlord Traits look like the best table for Tau. I think all of the traits on that one fit well with Tau's play style. The command and personal traits look a bit too CC oriented most of the time.

15)Vectored Thrusters-A little better. Now the whole unit gets Hit & Run due to the new rules. Though the restriction against drones is still there so no I4 fallback. :( Thanks to Tun-Tau for catching this one.

Vectored retro-thrusters can only be bought by a single model without a drone controller or drones. Just a initial restriction, it never stoped an IC from joining a unit that has drones and now that the special rule is confered to the rest of a squad in the new rule set it is a lot better.

I hope they give the skyray both interceptor and skyfire, it makes perfect sense, and would make it an insanely good choice.
I like that we can buy a bastion, and sit some firewariors in it for a great objective holder, with a twinlinked interceptor lascannon with a blacksun filter.
I also think that night-fight is a great strategy for us, as we reap the benefits without any of the downsides. This is by far my favorite new bit of 6th. Finally our armoury upgrades make sense!

Unfortunately you can't claim (or deny) an objective whilst embarked in a vehicle or occupying a building (pg 123).

thanks for this valuable resource. I'm very excited about the newfound viability of stealth suits and their ability to shield ic's. I hope to be able to contribute something useful when i get a chance to read the rules properly in a few days time.

Jadenim wrote:I'd concur with that Tun_Tau, it only excludes ICs from deployment, not moving on, although it will probably be argued over.

@Focusedfire; if I read the codex correctly a Shas'ui can take EMP grenades as an individual, from the armoury. Doesn't work for Photon grenades unfortunately, as they aren't individually listed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the tactics front, I think the Strategic Warlord Traits look like the best table for Tau. I think all of the traits on that one fit well with Tau's play style. The command and personal traits look a bit too CC oriented most of the time.

I Agree with you interpretation of the Grenades

As to Warlord Traits, Both Command and Strategic Traits trees are pretty good for the Tau. All Tau Players should stay away from the Personal Traits.

Tun_Tau wrote:

15)Vectored Thrusters-A little better. Now the whole unit gets Hit & Run due to the new rules. Though the restriction against drones is still there so no I4 fallback. :( Thanks to Tun-Tau for catching this one.

Vectored retro-thrusters can only be bought by a single model without a drone controller or drones. Just a initial restriction, it never stoped an IC from joining a unit that has drones and now that the special rule is confered to the rest of a squad in the new rule set it is a lot better.

Actually, the Codex Specifically says for Independent Characters and Single member teams"Monats" with out drones only.

This could be a big YMDC debate as to whether the wargear is restricted for purchasing purposes only or does the wargear limit the team composition.

I'd advise that we take this one and the Target Array to the YMDC forum.

Also, unsure as to whether the IC will benefit from the Stealth team rules. It seems to imply that they will but was wondering if stating that one model gives to the whole unit is enough when looking at the IC section listed in the UST section.
Any thoughts on this?

Original post updated and now has a colour key

Will add more about weapons, build strategies and and on the board Tactics soon.

May add an Army by Army and mission by mission suggestion guide.

What do you guys think?

Also, please keep up the conversation, as things are discussed, I will add what shakes out to the Tactica review/reference sheet.

Do you guys like this idea? Also taking suggestions on the formatting/lay-out.

Yes, it's a good thread, let's try and keep it going. Thank you for setting it up Focusedfire!

Captain Avatar wrote:

Jadenim wrote:I'd concur with that Tun_Tau, it only excludes ICs from deployment, not moving on, although it will probably be argued over.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the tactics front, I think the Strategic Warlord Traits look like the best table for Tau. I think all of the traits on that one fit well with Tau's play style. The command and personal traits look a bit too CC oriented most of the time.

We don't get any psyker powers guys unless they are allies like Eldar or SM so why the comments on what's good for Tau?

Captain Avatar wrote:
I'd advise that we take this one and the Target Array to the YMDC forum.

Target Array doesn’t work with Snap fire/overwatch. Page 2 under rules section, look for modifiers. You do multiple, add/subtract then lastly set numbers. Following that rule it would be BS3+1=4 then set BS1 snapfire.

I see no problem with Vectored Thrusters. The only restriction is on buying it, not joining other units after development.As for unit I have not got to the IC pages yet. But surly an IC form a unit when they join a unit. If that is the case stealth and Vectored Thrusters should work.

Jet packs give relentless, which allows you to fire heavy weapons and move. Can't broadsides move and fire heavy weapons as normal now? Don't need ASS as far as I can see.

@Dracos- the XV88 suit doesn't follow jet pack rules, it's just infantry, always has been unfortunately.

@Ministry - I'm not quite sure of your meaning, but I think you're talking about psychic disciplines (which we don't get). I was referring to the warlord traits, which one of you HQ units has to take.

I wanted to chime in and say that TA's sadly don't affect snap fire, since after all modifiers you adjust for set numbers.

On the warlord note, strategic is by far the best option for tau.

Stealth (ruins), force night fight, re-roll reserves and opponents get -1 to reserves is great.

Defensive grenades do have a purpose now, better cover saves!

I've taken the debate to YMDC
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/459482.page#4482675

Yeah, this thread is a great idea. And darn, I read the no transport thing, but I guess I was hoping too hard that buildings would be ok .

Jadenim wrote:@Dracos- the XV88 suit doesn't follow jet pack rules, it's just infantry, always has been unfortunately.

@Ministry - I'm not quite sure of your meaning, but I think you're talking about psychic disciplines (which we don't get). I was referring to the warlord traits, which one of you HQ units has to take.

Yeah, not sure why I didnt remember you get those! On that, I believe you only get one, but you could agree with your opponent that you each can take another or a third? I dont see mention on this in the BRB.