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Ive been reading and thinking about bids and Ive looked at some threads and just got the overall feeling they were last tier armies. In my area only one guy even has a nids army and Im pretty sure he traded that for a deathwing army. I play orks and I love the green tide list but I'm kinda looking for something different and nids are underplayed but my question Is are they under rated. (forgive some typos and spelling autocorrect won't play nice)

Well, You have to know how to play them. With new rules Flyrants became really good, and Pyskers for nidz can be really good to depending on the powers you get.

Are they even worth playing? Could I go to a tourney and at least compete to win?

No idea.Ask once we have had time to adapt to 6th ed.

Assault is better against vehicles now, and vehicles may be less popular overall, both of which will help bugs.

You can't Run and Assault now, but Fleet allows you to re-roll both your Run and Assault distances, so your Fleet guys will be able to cover distance more reliably in the early turns to get into assault range.

Big bugs now benefit from cover the same way as regular infantry models; 25% covered or being in area terrain. So that's a big help for them.

Fearless is massively improved by the removal of No Retreat. That's ENORMOUS, both for little bugs and to protect big bigs from getting killed by multiple assaults, as they did in 5th.

I think this edition helps bugs in a big way, though it's early to say for sure.

I know it's not the answer you were looking for, but it's all about the player. Nids are often the losers because they have to be played in perfect harmony to be effective at all, which takes a lot of practice. overall, I'd say they use to be bottom tier, but now are one of the better armies in the middle tier.

Nids suffer from the "don't quite play like fluff" problem. By fluff you should be able to just run hordes of gribblies, but on the table it does not quite work that way. And play them like a green tide is just going to suck.

Some 'nid players do do okay at tournaments but they have a much much worse time of it than just about any one else. Most of use 'nid players are hoping 6e will make us a bit more competitive, but if you are looking for a good competitive second army probably should look else where.

I think they are falling into the trap where there is less variation in the armies because a number of the units are really not competitive. Carnifexes and Pyrovores are the first things that come to mind, but overall about half the codex is wasted. The lack of eternal warrior for anything in the army especially hurts considering some random army out there that is completely armed with force weapons....

Anyway, its not that they can't work, its just they are forced into being more cookie cutter lists in order to compete and it makes the learning curve for younger players a lot higher which discourages as many players from even starting a 'nid army.

The sad part is I don't really know what I want. I like daemons but I don't like all the models...I guess I could ally them but the bugs...I love the fluff. Them tearing up the ultramarines giving chaos a run for their money in the "greatest enemy" to the IOM and it's still just almost a scouting party to what's actually coming. I would really like to play them but my orks are hard enough to play...I wanted something VERY different to my orks but I'm not sure where to go....I don't want to play power armor and I like the swarm armies...but guard is bleh...sigh I hope they end up being awesome dey puts up duh good fights! =)

I doubt nids will be bad this edition, but Flying MC's kinda suck in one regard: they have to take a grounded test every time they are hit.On a 3+ they are ok, but as soon as you roll a 1 or 2 you take a Strength 9 no armor saves hit. It really sucks for that to happen. Other than that Tyranids got an awesome Psychic Boost until everyone starts taking Eldrad...

Red Comet wrote:I doubt nids will be bad this edition, but Flying MC's kinda suck in one regard: they have to take a grounded test every time they are hit.On a 3+ they are ok, but as soon as you roll a 1 or 2 you take a Strength 9 no armor saves hit. It really sucks for that to happen. Other than that Tyranids got an awesome Psychic Boost until everyone starts taking Eldrad...

Ugh, I just started playing 5th and got maybe 8 games in and now I'm having to learn all of these different combos AND new rules. I loved the psychic powers nids got and that's one reason why I wanted to play them...my orks got shafted...as is normal...
So I'm looking at daemons/CSM or nids...or maybe dark eldar but I'm not sure. I just like the whole swarm effect. It's fun to watch the opponent have a target rich enviroment but killing 30-40 things does him no good =)

If you like swarms, Nids are for you in 6e. After upgrades, which all other armies will have, termagants are the cheapest horde unit in warhammer (discounting gretchins, but let's be realistic here) and when within range of a properly equipped tervigon, they can glance the crap out of vehicles in multi assaults while providing boatloads of dakka andscreening your now-somewhat-useful Warriors. But Daemons/CSM has an appeal all its own... that's going to be my next army.

Gharron wrote:

Red Comet wrote:I doubt nids will be bad this edition, but Flying MC's kinda suck in one regard: they have to take a grounded test every time they are hit.On a 3+ they are ok, but as soon as you roll a 1 or 2 you take a Strength 9 no armor saves hit. It really sucks for that to happen. Other than that Tyranids got an awesome Psychic Boost until everyone starts taking Eldrad...

Ugh, I just started playing 5th and got maybe 8 games in and now I'm having to learn all of these different combos AND new rules. I loved the psychic powers nids got and that's one reason why I wanted to play them...my orks got shafted...as is normal...
So I'm looking at daemons/CSM or nids...or maybe dark eldar but I'm not sure. I just like the whole swarm effect. It's fun to watch the opponent have a target rich enviroment but killing 30-40 things does him no good =)

If you really want Chaos then just wait for the new codex, but you might be waiting for a year or so...

One huge nerf is you can no longer assault from outflank. You follow the rules like you do with DSing.

Red Comet wrote:

Gharron wrote:

Red Comet wrote:I doubt nids will be bad this edition, but Flying MC's kinda suck in one regard: they have to take a grounded test every time they are hit.On a 3+ they are ok, but as soon as you roll a 1 or 2 you take a Strength 9 no armor saves hit. It really sucks for that to happen. Other than that Tyranids got an awesome Psychic Boost until everyone starts taking Eldrad...

Ugh, I just started playing 5th and got maybe 8 games in and now I'm having to learn all of these different combos AND new rules. I loved the psychic powers nids got and that's one reason why I wanted to play them...my orks got shafted...as is normal...
So I'm looking at daemons/CSM or nids...or maybe dark eldar but I'm not sure. I just like the whole swarm effect. It's fun to watch the opponent have a target rich enviroment but killing 30-40 things does him no good =)

If you really want Chaos then just wait for the new codex, but you might be waiting for a year or so...

well, I've got a grey knights army that I'm not going to play and I would like a daemons/CSM army to kind of help my orks along with. Plus, I would like a thousand sons/khorne/slaanesh but I love the nids just the universal bad guy thing and the fact that can't take allies is AWESOME..I know I know people love it or whatever but still.

Tyranids may well be the Tau of 6th edition, as melee isn't nearly as good. But I have neither the new rulebook nor the Tyranid codex, so I'm not the best source.

DOOMBREAD wrote:Tyranids may well be the Tau of 6th edition, as melee isn't nearly as good. But I have neither the new rulebook nor the Tyranid codex, so I'm not the best source.

They got some minibuffs moreso than actual nerfs, they actually improved overall.

Our overall game got nerfed but the psychic stuff gives us hope, I'd bet money competitive Nid lists in 6e are gonna be built on psykers

A lot is going to depend on how Boneswords and Ymgarls get faqed, but ultimately they will suffer greatly in any envirnoment with lots of space wolves, thanks to the Runepriest being so powerful against them. Missile launchers are also a big issue, but those may become less spammed with the new mech nerfs. I also think people are drastically underestimating how bad the new grenade rules are going to bone MCs. Finally, how much acceptance Alies and Fortifications get will impact their viability and everyone is guessing on that front.

At least GKs got a lot less scary to face...

Yeah, people are really under-estimating how hard the ally and fort stuff is going to hit Nids. Your experience is obviously going to depend on your gaming group but I don't see Nids being a particulary "competitive" army for the next 2-3 years. Tyranids are still badass though so you should answer the beckon of the great devourer! Maybe if more people pick up Nids we'll get some GW love.

Nids are formidable if the army is built and played correctly.

It's a very psychological army that can confuse people as to what to shoot first, the little bugs or the big monsters.

In 2nd, they were quite scary, 3rd made them obscene with the biomorphs, 4th was their peak with Nidzilla and 5th killed them off. From what I've seen and read, 6th has everyone divided on the Nids place on the tier list. 50% say they got hit harder with the nerf bat than any other army, while the other 50% say they are much better.

Personally, I see them as much improved, but not game breaking.

TMC got a fair amount of buffs.

Carnifex will be seen more as it can destroy any vehicle without having to use smash.
Tyrant Deathstars are now crazy good thanks to look out sir, 2+ saves and better psychic powers.
Winged Tyrants are scary, winged anything in Nids is scary.
Tervigon has now become a bit of a beast at killing vehicles thanks to the claws option and smash. Oh, it's a psyker too.

Other stuff got better.

Zoanthrope can get other powers. I think the telepathy primaris is pretty insane when used by three Zoanthrope. That's our Terminator killer right there.
Venomthrope help our MC get cover saves.
Deathleaper is nice to include.
Hormagaunt on feed can butcher any infantry unit.

The list goes on.

Think of the good stuff and avoid the nerfed units.

Gharron wrote:Are they even worth playing? Could I go to a tourney and at least compete to win?

Do you need to win with plastic toy soliers? If that is your answer, then I would say No. If you want to play for fun,
where you win, loose and even draw, then I would say yes. Nobody can answer about Tournies because there
isn't any yet. That question will have to be asked 6 months from now, when alot of people get use to the new rules
and devolope new tactics. For all we know, the new Chaos SM dex (or DA) maybe be the new armies that go to
Tournies now.

Then again, on The Tyranid Hive forum for Nids, alot of people complained that Nids sucked in 5th. Then agian,
a few people say they keep winning tournies in 5th with Nids. So it's a wait and see.

From what I see, and as Nid player, it's not easy. Tyranids don't have the "easy button" like Space Marine players have.
It's a "synergetic" army, meaning everything needs to gell with each other to get the best out of the codex.

I love the minis. There is alot to paint there. They are fun to play, win or loose. All I know now is last turn vehicle rush
wich makes it easy for the SM player to play (at least in my group) is gone now, so should make it more FUN to play
agian.

Judging by the number of Tyranids suddenly showing on our ebay equivalent, the opinin that they're bad is common. I don't care, I'm keeping my genestealer list anyway, winning with it will just be more rewarding. Also can't wait to try Mawlocks plus Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander.

Hunchkrot wrote:I know it's not the answer you were looking for, but it's all about the player. Nids are often the losers because they have to be played in perfect harmony to be effective at all, which takes a lot of practice. overall, I'd say they use to be bottom tier, but now are one of the better armies in the middle tier.

I agree with this.

Gharron wrote:The sad part is I don't really know what I want. I like daemons but I don't like all the models...I guess I could ally them but the bugs...I love the fluff. Them tearing up the ultramarines giving chaos a run for their money in the "greatest enemy" to the IOM and it's still just almost a scouting party to what's actually coming. I would really like to play them but my orks are hard enough to play...I wanted something VERY different to my orks but I'm not sure where to go....I don't want to play power armor and I like the swarm armies...but guard is bleh...sigh I hope they end up being awesome dey puts up duh good fights! =)

Go with Nids if you like them, btw they are very differnt from orks if you wath them to be.

I've had 2 6th ed games, both with Nids and I am 2 for 2.

The first was a kill team game. My Trygon, someone else playing 3 Warriors, 6 Hormagaunts and a Zoanthrope with Hemorage(sp?) and Enfeeble. The guy beside.me was playing 2 5 man stormtrooper squads, and a 4 with 5 VV with Power Weapons and stuff. A 5th had a Primaris Psyker with Biomancy powers. I killed 2 Troopers with shooting and the rest in Combat. The other 5 shot and did nothing. Charged and got hit with 5/6 shots from Overwatch. Killed them all. Hormagaunts Charge, Butcher them.


2nd game was against Guard

2 Vet Squads, CCS, Lord Commissar, Leman Russ, with Allied TDA Chapter Master and Tac Squad.

2 15 man Termagant Squad ( One in reserve), along with a Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander, HVC, BS+LW, TM, AS and a Trygon and Mawloc. Mawloc munched 3 marines upon entry, Then Smashed the Leman russ that killed my Trygon. Killed His Chapter Master and a Vet squad with the Hive Tyrant, followed by his HWS (we realised it was illegal afterwards) and ended up winning the game with his Tac Squad and my Warriors each on an Onbjective (3 VP each). He got 1st Blood but I got Warlord and Linebreaker 4-5.

So maybe its just me but so far Nids are good.

The funny feeling I'm getting these days is that thanks to all the randomness, Tyranids now play more like Orks than Orks do...

Your psychic powers can be obscenely powerful - if you can roll the right ones
Random charge distances make all the difference now - no more knowing when you'll be able to reach the enemy
Killing vehicles with glances and shooting down flyers can be done - but you'll need to roll plenty of 6's

Many of the core mechanics to 6e Nids boil down to rolling as many dice as possible and hoping for the best. And if that pays off, it can be terrifying...

they aren't THAT bad. Genstealers are very awesome. The Doom of Malan'tai is actually really powerful for his points, you just have to use him right.

Their problem really is the take a ton of shots the first couple of rounds, they don't have any great special rules and their monsterous creatures are like initative 1. They are definately better then say, Tau...or DA...or Templar...or Eldar (now)...if played right with genestealers and the Doom.

Stealers suck. No Assault after running and non from reserves really kills them. Doom isn't TOO bad. If he rolls the Life Leech power on Biomancy he can be Deadly (ganis up to 2 wounds for causing the damage, and another from the Power itself) or Iron Arm (T5-8 Doom? Yes Please!).

The real heroes in this are Harpies. FMC with the Power to Half your your INt on the charge. HVC doinf -1 to the table isn't too bad. But the Hapry in CC is awesome, as are Flyrants. Though Walking Tyrants with Armoured Shell is viable too. Tyrannofexes are ok. Dakkafexes should glance to death anything below Leman Russes and Flyers and even against Flyers they can still do damage. Trygons are Epic vehicle Hunters due to 6attacks and Smash leaving no less than 3 Str 10 attacks. Plus all MC now have Hammer of Wrath which makes Carnies have Something. 3 Str 9, Int10 attacks comjng up. Mawlocs can be used to bite into Termies and light vehicles as they enter. The Swarmlord has a good chance of winning any challenge.not built to his destruction like GK charavters and even then he has a fair chance. Tervigons are cool too. Between 1 and 3 powers. Iron Arm to give it T7-9, so immune to lasguns and possibly bolters, while Endurance Power can give a unit FNP to a longer range than Catalyst, as well as 5+ regeneration. I used a Hive Tyrant with Regen casting Endurance on itself. Regenerated about 6 wounds over the entire battle. Broodlords teleporting Big Stealer units around with GoI or Warp Speed (which I believe affects the entire unit).

On paper it looks good.

The psychic powers are a huge buff to nids. For your Tervigons, Tyrants, and the Swarmlord, Biomancy is just awesome. Tervigons are actually scary in CC now with a couple of the powers. Iron Arm, Endurance, Warp Speed are just nasty. The Swarmlord especially is frightening with 4 rolls on the biomancy table, chances are you are going to get at least two of the powers you really want, and he can cast 2 a turn. A fleet eternal warrior T9 S9 I9 A7 MC swinging around AP2 ID attacks with prefered enemy, forcing rerolls on invulnerable saves, and a few tyrant guard to back him up is just sick and wrong. Have a Tervigon give him Endurance and now he and his buddys have FnP and a chance to regen a wound a turn. Even tervigons can become brutal with the right stuff.

We take some hits on assaults, but really it's not too bad overall.

I play nids in between Marines and IG, and I'd have to say that the best thing about them is that they are always something different. The best responses here are the ones that say that you have to really make everything work together to win with them. That being said, everytime I put my nids on the table, my opponents are scared of them, which is a nice feeling!

I try to do something different everytime too, so that like the hive mind, you're adapting your own tactics all the time.

I try to field a little bit of everything in my armies, so that the opponent never knows what exactly what to hit. They might go after the Tyrant only to realize the zoanthropes have the same powers and everyone gets rage, or they can kill the venomthrope to remove my cover and dangerous terrain, so that my hormagaunts can keep going and still butcher them. always build so that your all your units benefit each other, but none rely on each other. as for actual strategies, I think that nothing is better than including a Tyrant with HC, A DSing Trygon, at least 1 squad of Ymgarl genestealers, some zoans, and an outflanking Hormagaunt brood. with a 2+ to arrive on the second turn, you can get right into combat at the beginning of the game.