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Do Imotekh's D6 Str 8 AP 5 Lightning attacks auto hit, or would they hit on his BS VS a Flyer, or would only something that could snap fire, effect said flyer? The only restriction I see is on template, blast and ord weapons, which this is neither.

For example if he rolled a 6 against a zooming flyer for Lightning, then rolled the D6 and rolled 4 hits, are these auto hits against the flyer, and skip right to armor pen or do they have to roll to hit first, and only hitting on 6's, or do they not hit at all because it's not being snap fired?

Furthermore, if it's determined that a flyer is auto hit, would it be allowed to have a chance to evade? I ask this because if the vehicle is auto hit, then rolling to hit never happened, as I quote below;

Evade
"If a Zooming Flyer comes under fire, the pilot can throw his
craft into a series of evasive manoeuvres in an attempt to avoid
taking damage. After the enemy has rolled To Hit against one of
your Flyers, but before armor penetration rolls are made, you
can choose to Evade until the end of your next turn. An evading
Flyer has the Jink special rule, but only fires Snap Shots."

Couldn't find a clear cut determination on how all this would apply to zooming flyers.

Thanks.

If the lightning auto-hits, it cannot be snap fired so you cannot effect fliers with it. You cannot snap fire with things that auto-hit unless you have skyfire.

Yes the flier can always choose to evade, he simply chooses to do it before pen rolls.

The problem here is that lightning isn't specified as a shooting attack. It just simply states "On a roll of a 6, that unit is struck by a bolt of lightning and suffers D6 Str 8 AP 5 hits (vehicles are hit on their side armor)."

The hard to hit rule is as follows.

"Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots."

Since this isn't a shooting attack, or specified as one, it seems more of a world effect that would apply to the flyer because of the fact that Imotekh isn't specifically targeting anything, or does it state that he is shooting in any manner. Nor is it a template, blast or ord attack.

As far as evading goes, since this is a permissive rule set, rolling to hit would have to come first and then after to hit rolls are made, it gives you the window to evade before armor pen rolls are made. Since an auto hitting attack would skip the to hit process, and jump straight to armor pen, it would allow no permission to evade, because of the fact that armor pen would immediately come into effect, skipping the rolling to hit process all together thus leaving no window or permission to evade.

I have to say that if you roll a 6 on lightning roll then you can strike a flyer. The reason that I say this is okay is because the Blood Lance is a psychic shooting attack that automatically hits and no need to roll. That is effective against flyers.

Blood lance and Imotekh's lightning are very different, blood lance is a PSA Imotekh's lightning is a special rule that makes no mention of being a shooting attack(though it occurs during the shooting phase).

TheAvengingKnee wrote:Blood lance and Imotekh's lightning are very different, blood lance is a PSA Imotekh's lightning is a special rule that makes no mention of being a shooting attack(though it occurs during the shooting phase).

but you still have to roll a 6 to hit with it technically so wouldn't that count as a to hit roll?

and if you have to roll a 6 isn't it the same as making a snap shot?

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

TheAvengingKnee wrote:Blood lance and Imotekh's lightning are very different, blood lance is a PSA Imotekh's lightning is a special rule that makes no mention of being a shooting attack(though it occurs during the shooting phase).

but you still have to roll a 6 to hit with it technically so wouldn't that count as a to hit roll?

and if you have to roll a 6 isn't it the same as making a snap shot?

You're comparing apples to oranges. A roll of six is never the same as making a snap shot, unless you're making a snap snot. As for Imotekh's needing a 6, no it is not a to hit roll. It tells you roll a die, on a 6 the unit takes... So there's no mention of rolling to hit.

They auto-hit. They are the result of a special ability. They are not 'shots' (ie: the result of a shooting attack) or a template, a blast, or a large blast attack and so are not subject to the 'hard to hit' rules.

Also since the necron player has not rolled any 'to-hit' rolls for the lightning, the flyer's controller cannot choose to have their flier 'evade' them.

People need to stop applying the "No BS = No Snapshots" restriction to every fething thing that might hit a Flyer. It only applies to shooting attacks. Not everything that autohits is going to whiff at a flyer unless it's a shooting attack or otherwise specifies that it will miss flyers.

Imotekh's lightning will most assuredly hit flyers because it's not firing any shots. There's no way to apply a snap-shot restriction to this special, specific codex ability that contradicts the normal sequence of events. By Page 7 it takes precedence. It will hit flyers.

"So there's this rule that auto-hits things on a D6 roll of 6. If I roll a 6, does it hit?"



Yes, Flyers are hit. Everything is hit. You roll a 6, guess what? Enemy stuff gets hit. Automatically. They suffer hits. In no way shape, or form does the Lord of the Storm rule even imply that this could be a shooting attack.

I can understand people not wanting certain auto-hits to work on flyers (Mawlocs, Bomb Sqigs, etc), but lightning? How could that not be hitting? It should be hitting on a 2+, if there was any realism in 40K.
Anyways, the rule says it hits. The "Snap-shots only" from hard to hit isn't talking about special abilities, just regular shooting.

yes, Lightining hits Flyers. It's a special effect that happens every turn.

Fafnir13 wrote:I can understand people not wanting certain auto-hits to work on flyers (Mawlocs, Bomb Sqigs, etc), but lightning? How could that not be hitting? It should be hitting on a 2+, if there was any realism in 40K.
Anyways, the rule says it hits. The "Snap-shots only" from hard to hit isn't talking about special abilities, just regular shooting.

ah the mawloc one wont hit though right.. as its a template weapon, but everything else there would i agree....i love the imagery of a bomb squig blowing up a flyer lol, id imagine it running up a large rock and exploding on the cockpit... the pilot going "wtf was that!!!!!!"

Formosa wrote:

Fafnir13 wrote:I can understand people not wanting certain auto-hits to work on flyers (Mawlocs, Bomb Sqigs, etc), but lightning? How could that not be hitting? It should be hitting on a 2+, if there was any realism in 40K.
Anyways, the rule says it hits. The "Snap-shots only" from hard to hit isn't talking about special abilities, just regular shooting.

ah the mawloc one wont hit though right.. as its a template weapon, but everything else there would i agree....i love the imagery of a bomb squig blowing up a flyer lol, id imagine it running up a large rock and exploding on the cockpit... the pilot going "wtf was that!!!!!!"

For the last fething time, it's not a weapon. The flyer rules say "weapons" with template, large blast, or blast can't hit. The Mawloc description never describes it as a weapon, and the USR for template, blast, and large blast specify attacks and not weapons, which implies there are non-weapons that use those USRs.

agreed that on a roll of a 6 it hits and on the question of the flyer using the evade rule...this simply gives the flyer the jink USR which is a cover save....in the lightning description it specifies that cover saves can not be taken against lightning...really though who wants to fly all around in a hostile lighting storm??...muhahahaha