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This came up in the BA and IG order thread.

Can an IC who has joined a unit of a different army, ride in their transport?

1. Normally Battle Brothers cannot ride in their allies transports.
2. IC's joined to a unit count as a normal member of that unit.

I would say no.

I would say yes. If an IC can benefit from a codex specific psyker power because he is in an allied unit, i think he could embark on an allied transport.

No battle brother can ride in eachothers vehicles period.

Why else would they make that specific wording saying even battle brothers can never embark onto each others vehicles???

Just because you can make a character death star from two codexs dose not mean he magically becomes more then a battle brother.

My argument is (and please not this is not HIWPI) is that when an IC joins a unit, he is considered to be a normal member of that unit for all rule purposes. So (for example) if a SM Captain joins a group of IG Veterans, the Captain is considered a normal member of the Veterans for all rule purposes. Since the veterans can embark into a Chimera, the Captain would be able to as well.

I am not finding that rule, where are you seeing it?

Page 39, in the Independent Character block. Left column, very last paragraph.

My personal call is that the no Battle Brothers in your transport rule trumps that Space Marine Captain acting as a "normal member" of the Veterans squad they just joined.

Afterall, what if he's wearing TDA? IG doesn't have any rules about Terminators in their transports, so does he just take up two spaces? When he can't even fit into a Rhino?

Hmm, maybe I'll attach a Captain (in TDA), a Techmarine, AND a Chaplain (in TDA) to that 5-man command squad and load them in their Chimera. They all fit don't they?

There is just WAY too many ways to abuse this. No Battle Brothers in your transports. Period. ... At least that's my call.

DMajiko wrote:My personal call is that the no Battle Brothers in your transport rule trumps that Space Marine Captain acting as a "normal member" of the Veterans squad they just joined.

Afterall, what if he's wearing TDA? IG doesn't have any rules about Terminators in their transports, so does he just take up two spaces? When he can't even fit into a Rhino?

Hmm, maybe I'll attach a Captain (in TDA), a Techmarine, AND a Chaplain (in TDA) to that 5-man command squad and load them in their Chimera. They all fit don't they?

There is just WAY too many ways to abuse this. No Battle Brothers in your transports. Period. ... At least that's my call.

Actually, this is answered quite nicely in the terminator entry, they may not embark on Rhinos or Razorbacks. That's the only limitation to Terminator armor embarking in a vehicle, besides the fact that it states that they take up 2 spaces for transport capacity.

As for the argument at large, I'd have to say that the independent character rule is the more specific of the two. The reason for this is that for battle brothers the bolded quote about treated as friendly units tells us that those rules are about units of battle brothers. When an independent character joins a unit, he ceases to be a separate unit, and is now just a member of a squad.

Happyjew wrote:Since the veterans can embark into a Chimera, the Captain would be able to as well.

The unit can only embark into the transport if all of the unit's members are allowed to embark.

A unit with a joined IC in terminator armour can't embark, because the IC can't embark due to being in terminator armour.
A unit with a joined IC from an allied detachment can't embark, because the IC can't embark due to being from an allied detachment.


The IC being treated as a part of the unit doesn't change the fact that he comes from an allied detachment.

insaniak wrote:The unit can only embark into the transport if all of the unit's members are allowed to embark.

There actually isn't a rule that states that. The only prohibition about embarking is if some of the models cannot reach to within 2" of an access point, they cannot embark on the transport. Obviously there's also the battle brother's prohibition too. With the wording for IC that they, "count as part of the unit for all rules purposes" it makes it pretty tough to prevent it from embarking due to battle brothers. Remember, for rules purposes a SM captain is part of a veteran squad. Can the veteran squad embark on the transport? Yes, then since for rules purposes, the captain is part of the squad he may embark as well.

Lone Dragoon wrote: There actually isn't a rule that states that.

There doesn't need to be.

If a group is given permission to do something, and is then joined by someone who is specifically forbidden from doing that thing, then the group can't do that thing without a rule being broken.

Remember, for rules purposes a SM captain is part of a veteran squad.

Sure he is. But he stil came from a different codex.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I can move to Italy, and thus be a part of the group 'People who live in Italy' and so subject to all of the laws that apply to people in Italy... but I'm still from Australia. If there was a rule that said that people from Australia can't go to Italian Cafes, the fact that I am currently living in Italy wouldn't over-ride the rule forbidding me from obtaining awesome Italian coffee and chatting about how much I love berets.

The same thing applies here. Yes, the IC is a part of the squad. But he's a part of the squad that is selected from a different codex, and so is subject to the rule that says that you have to be from this codex to go on this ride.

If an IC joins a squad, for all intents and purposes, he is a member of that squad and can embark on the transport.

I think the rule preventing battle brothers from entering an allies transports is to prevent you from using your allies transports to move your squads around. Ie: 6 terminators in a waveserpent, or a really good unit coming in on a night scythe.

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:If an IC joins a squad, for all intents and purposes, he is a member of that squad and can embark on the transport.

Where are you seeing a rule that says that counting him as a part of the squad lets you ignore which codex he was chosen from?

I think the rule preventing battle brothers from entering an allies transports is to prevent you from using your allies transports to move your squads around. Ie: 6 terminators in a waveserpent, or a really good unit coming in on a night scythe.

I think it's to prevent battle brothers from entering an ally's transports. Seems the more straight-forward interpretation, but YMMV, obviously