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PLEASE READ THE SPOILER BEFORE COMMENTING


With that all out of the way, let's take a look at the list.

Army List - Version 1.2 Updated 8/14/2012

Space Wolves Detachment - 1260 Points
Bjorn the Fell-Handed (270 points) with Plasma Cannon
Grey Hunter Pack (230 points) 10 with Meltagun (x2), Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Power Weapon, Drop Pod
Grey Hunter Pack (230 points) 10 with Meltagun (x2), Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Power Weapon, Drop Pod
Grey Hunter Pack (235 points) 10 with Plasma Gun (x2), Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Power Weapon, Drop Pod
Grey Hunter Pack (235 points) 10 with Plasma Gun (x2), Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Power Weapon, Drop Pod
Lucius Drop Pod (60 points) with Locator Beacon; Rules found in Imperial Armour Apocalypse Second Edition, Page 31

Imperial Guard Detachment - 735 Points
Company Command Squad (120 points) with 1 Company Commander, 1 Astropath, 4 Veterans with Meltaguns
Guardsman Marbo (65 points)
Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad (120 points) with Al'Rahem and 4 Guardsmen with Grenade Launchers
Infantry Squad (75 points) Sergeant with Power Weapon, 1 Guardsmen with Meltagun, 8 Guardsmen with Lasgun
Infantry Squad (75 points) Sergeant with Power Weapon, 1 Guardsmen with Meltagun, 8 Guardsmen with Lasgun
Infantry Squad (75 points) Sergeant with Power Weapon, 1 Guardsmen with Meltagun, 8 Guardsmen with Lasgun
Infantry Squad (75 points) Sergeant with Power Weapon, 1 Guardsmen with Meltagun, 8 Guardsmen with Lasgun
Vendetta (130 points) with three Twin-Linked Lascannons

Total Points - 1995

My original list had the same core units (CCS in Vendetta, Platoon Al'rahem, and Grey Hunters in Drop Pods). It also included Long Fangs, a Rune Priest, a Wolf Lord bedecked for Challenges, and three TDA Wolf Guard Pack Leaders. Platoon Al'rahem was only 3 units instead of 5 and were mounted in Chimeras and armed with Autocannons. It also lacked Guardsman Marbo.

After several close games with no victory I had decided to tweak the list a bit:

One, Long Fangs are useless in this list. If they deploy on table, they get killed before I can shoot (I need to go second against some lists; more on that in the General Strategy section below). If they enter via Drop Pod they don't do much with Snap Fire and then die anyways. I feel Dreadnoughts should be your firepower source in a Drop Pod list since they can fire more accurately when they land and are more resilient than 6 Power Armored bodies that may or may not be in cover.

Two, Wolf Guard aren't as necessary in Drop Pod lists to begin with and are less necessary in 6th edition in general. To take one in a Drop Pod, I have to ditch my free special weapon and find more points for wargear. Combi-Weapons and Wolf Claws make more sense in general now than Power Fists. Axes are not a good idea.

But the real problem is the only things that I have to worry about in combat are Characters who will likely slaughter my Wolf Guard before they can strike (mainly ICs). Buying a turn for my squad isn't really worth it in my opinion. I'd rather have the free gun. And forget about using their 2+ save (if TDA) to shield your squad. You have to use Look Out Sir! before you make the save if you have mixed armor, so it becomes a liability in the shooting phase against mass fire. The viability of Wolf Guard in 6th edition is its own debate, but in this list they don't scream out as a mandatory choice.

Three, My IG Platoon wasn't doing a whole lot with its Autocannons. I still like the idea of Chimeras, but I'm going to try the IG Blob Tactic with the squad. The Infantry Squads can combine to form two 20 man or one 40 man or one 10 and one 30 man squads. Normally with Blobs you take Commissars to give them Stubborn but I was running low on points. Preferably I'd find 110 points (versus the 90 needed for two Commissars with Power Weapons) to take a Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter. Making them Fearless (which didn't get FAQ'd as Space Wolf only) and providing them with Stealth would make it even more annoying to dislodge during The Relic mission.

Four, my ICs were eating up slots Grey Hunters could have been taking. Even worse, my Rune Priest was usually not down until Turn 2 and I wasn't finding Psychic Powers to be a problem (since in every play test I keep rolling a 3+ to nullify...). Bjorn in a Drop Pod (FW is legal as far as I'm concerned; the super heavies are Apocalypse only and I don't play Apocalypse. Will always let my potential opponents know ahead of time) solves my problem and he makes an interesting Warlord. AV 13 and a 5+ Save are surprisingly resistant to glances, and 3 hull points is a lot.

So that's why I am where I am with the list.


General Strategy

The point to this list is to outmaneuver my opponent. Everything either Deep Strikes or Outflanks. The goal is to hit the opponent hard on Turns 1 and 2 and then claim Objectives. Several things help with this:

Astropath
With this army, your Reserves are very reliable. The Astropath included with the Company Command Squad affects the entire Army, not just the IG Detachment, and works while off the board. He gives you +1 to your Reserve rolls, making it a 2+/2+/Auto. Even better, he also allows you to re-roll the table edge when you Outflank. This allows Al'rahem and the Vendetta to arrive precisely where you need them.

Bjorn the Fell-Handed
With this army, you want to go second. You do not want to be going first with this list. There are several reasons why going second is beneficial:

1. You get to see how your opponent is set up before deciding on your Drop Pod waves.
2. Most opponents cannot resist moving for Objectives on Turn 1, which usually makes them more vulnerable than if they just turtle in a corner.
3. Your Vendetta is likely coming in on Turn 2. If your opponent has one or more Flyers out on Turn 2, you will be able to get the first shot at them. With 3 Twin-Linked Lascannons most Flyers are mince meat.
4. Related to above, you can outmaneuver the enemy Flyers. With a minimum move of 18 inches and a maximum turn of 90 degrees, you can get in behind the enemy Flyers rendering them useless for most of the game.
5. It allows you to try to contest Objectives at the last minute more reliably than if you had gone first.

But the re-roll to determine who goes first is not the only reason to take Bjorn. AV 13, 3 Hull Points, 5+ Invulnerable Save, and Hard to Kill all make him fairly survivable. Unless you have very bad luck, you should be able to survive the first turn. Especially with the Lucius Drop Pod! It allows you to Assault the turn you arrive. Krak Grenades are not even a threat against AV13.

Also, I have no Wolf Guard. My highest Leadership for the Space Wolves is a paltry 8. Saga of the Majesty will help keep my Marines where they are meant to be. Should Bjorn finally succumb, they all will become Fearless which is excellent now.

As my only HQ choice, he has the highest Leadership value and gets to roll on the Warlord Traits table as well. I long for the day I get to make him a scoring unit...

Really the only downside (aside from the absurd point cost of 330 points in this list) is that the FAQ (possibly by accident) made it so you always lose D3 Victory Points when he dies instead of only losing them if you do not have a model in base contact with his wreck. With potentially 9 scoring units I hope I can make up for that!

Did I mention he is also a Character?

Turn 1 Drop
So what is Turn 1 like for you? Painful. You have a total of 6 units on the table. One of them has to survive an enemy turn of shooting of you lose the game.

Three of them AV 12, Immobile, Open Topped boxes armed with a Storm Bolter they can't even use until Turn 2. The plus side is they have three Hull Points so they tend to survive the first turn. The units that come out vary. Almost always, I drop Bjorn and the two Grey Hunter Packs armed with Meltaguns. If I'm lucky I can drop three enemy vehicles (very, very useful against Dark Eldar. Venoms and their ilk are bad news for this list).

Turn 2 Reinforcements
I've yet to have a game where I did not get every Reserved unit in on Turn 2.

The Infantry Platoon is rolled for collectively, so you roll for when they arrive and which table edge they arrive from on one dice. Coupled with the re-roll for table edge, you nearly always get him on the edge you want. Al'rahem has a unique Order called 'Like the Wind' that enables you to Shoot and then move D6" in your Shooting Phase. This is not a Run move! They can move a rather disturbing distance on Turn 3, moving 6" + D6" + 2D6" if launching an Assault. He can also Twin-Link your Meltaguns if you are shooting at a vehicle and some other fun things.

The Vendetta is a Flyer but also has Hover Mode. This lets you move as a Skimmer if you so desire. This increases your options when you come in from a table edge. The Vendetta can severely damage or outright destroy most flyers with its three Twin-Linked Lascannons. If there are no enemy Flyers, there likely will be an enemy vehicle somewhere.

Even better is its cargo. The CCS can drop into Melta range very easily. With BS 4 and twin-linked shots thanks to the Bring It Down! Order, you can decimate yet another vehicle.

Your other Drop Pods also add instant pressure to the enemy. It can really throw many players off when you are suddenly in their back field or flank. Hopefully your other units were able to open some vehicles up so you can focus on enemy infantry with your Plasma weapons.

And finally Guardsman Marbo. This guy can be hilariously gross. He comes into play anywhere within 1" of an enemy unit, but not in combat. He also has a Demolition Charge. A S8 AP2 Ordnance Blast right near where you want it can be very devastating to the enemy's game plan. If he manages to survive this, he is Initiative 5 and has 2 Wounds and counts as a Character. Best part? His attacks are Poison (2+). He can deal with most enemy units fairly handily. If he survives.


What I'm Looking For

Comments, criticism, thoughts, ramblings, etc.

The list ain't perfect. Its serviceable though, and a lot of fun to play. I'd love to fit that Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter in here. I'd love to take more Dreadnoughts, or mount up Platoon Al'rahem in Chimeras. The point limits are pretty tight unfortunately. Not a lot of wiggle room. I'm not at all worried about the lack of a Rune Priest in this list.

You can only reserve half of your army, although fliers like your vendetta and such don't factor in as they have to be reserved

Titan Atlas wrote:You can only reserve half of your army, although fliers like your vendetta and such don't factor in as they have to be reserved

Please re-read my post. It is obvious you did not.

Edit: I realize I may as well elaborate now. I was hoping to avoid that but I should have done it from the beginning. I will update the original post with this as well:

You can only reserve half your army. Several units get ignored when you tally up your total number of units. This includes the following:

Any unit that is required to Reserve (Platoon Al'rahem, the Vendetta, Drop Pods)
Any model embarked on a Drop Pod
Any Dedicated Transport of a unit that must be held in Reserve.

Tallying it up: I have only one unit in my army when determining how many can be held in reserve. Half of one is 0.5, which rounded up is 1. So I can hold my 1 unit (the CCS) in Reserve.

I would say clever girl...but that would infer you're a Velociraptor...with that said, I think TDA on the Battle Leader and making him a lord would be a sound investment. Then again, I'm a sucker for overpowered beasts.

Have you put any thought at all into taking Arjac for a spin?

Brilliant list.

My thoughts on the Long Fangs are as such:

Snapfire makes them more worth taking in a pod, for sure. Nevertheless, it can expose them for a while, while they move into terrain, unless you are willing to drop them directly into the terrain, which I suppose isn't too bad. If you don;t want two squads worth, it may be worth looking into taking Logan Grimmnar, who could drop in with the Long Fangs and give them relentless.

cowmonaut wrote:

Titan Atlas wrote:You can only reserve half of your army, although fliers like your vendetta and such don't factor in as they have to be reserved

Please re-read my post. It is obvious you did not.

Edit: I realize I may as well elaborate now. I was hoping to avoid that but I should have done it from the beginning. I will update the original post with this as well:

You can only reserve half your army. Several units get ignored when you tally up your total number of units. This includes the following:

Any unit that is required to Reserve (Platoon Al'rahem, the Vendetta, Drop Pods)
Any model embarked on a Drop Pod
Any Dedicated Transport of a unit that must be held in Reserve.

Tallying it up: I have only one unit in my army when determining how many can be held in reserve. Half of one is 0.5, which rounded up is 1. So I can hold my 1 unit (the CCS) in Reserve.

I really didn't. But it's mainly because you were going to generate replies like this if you hadn't edited the parts that give wrong first impressions.

I also don't really plan on reading this post anyways, I'm not that interested at this point

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I would say clever girl...but that would infer you're a Velociraptor...with that said, I think TDA on the Battle Leader and making him a lord would be a sound investment. Then again, I'm a sucker for overpowered beasts.

Have you put any thought at all into taking Arjac for a spin?

With the new Challenge rules I'm really wanting to whip out my Wolf Lord in TDA. I think he could really beat face. I'm not sure how powerful Characters will end up being though so I'm leery of skimping on my troops to keep the points free for it.

At 188 points Arjac seems expensive. Plus I tend to dislike Special Characters, personal hold over from 3rd edition.

Commander Endova wrote:Brilliant list.

My thoughts on the Long Fangs are as such:

Snapfire makes them more worth taking in a pod, for sure. Nevertheless, it can expose them for a while, while they move into terrain, unless you are willing to drop them directly into the terrain, which I suppose isn't too bad. If you don;t want two squads worth, it may be worth looking into taking Logan Grimmnar, who could drop in with the Long Fangs and give them relentless.

With Logan I feel obliged to take Wolf Guard. He's damn expensive for what he provides compared to a normal Wolf Lord if you ignore him making Wolf Guard packs Troop.

I too am thinking snapfire will alleviate some of the pain of Drop Pod Long Fangs. I've used the MM/PC pack in a Pod in 5th with okay results
(two games do not make for a good playtest).

Thanks for the comments and complements! I take it you guys don't think adding Special Weapons to the IG squads would be worth it compared to a more powerful Character? Or do you think I should do both.

You know what, that's unfair, I had a bad day and was taking it out on the internet, so my apologies.

It's clever, and I do like what I'm seeing. Damn Space Wolves and their awesomeness

I like the list it looks very deadly the only i see wrong with is the battle leader. The reason being is because under the saga of the hunter it can only be taken by someone in power armour. I may be wrong but ill check my codex again because i may be wrong

Just one question - doesn't this army automatically lose since you have to have a model on the table as per the victory conditions?

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Just one question - doesn't this army automatically lose since you have to have a model on the table as per the victory conditions?

A player loses if he has no models on the table at the end of a game turn. Half of the Space Wolf Drop Pods will drop in on his first player turn.

Wolfbrother65 wrote:I like the list it looks very deadly the only i see wrong with is the battle leader. The reason being is because under the saga of the hunter it can only be taken by someone in power armour. I may be wrong but ill check my codex again because i may be wrong

True. The Wargear entry for Runic Armor calls it a special type of Power Armor though, so I think I'm in the clear.

Magc8Ball wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Just one question - doesn't this army automatically lose since you have to have a model on the table as per the victory conditions?

A player loses if he has no models on the table at the end of a game turn. Half of the Space Wolf Drop Pods will drop in on his first player turn.

This. Luckly, other wise full Drop lists and Daemons wouldn't be able to play.

yea it seem like a very odd that only power Armour could be taken because it the same question i have could he take a thunder wolf mount because it not considered a bike so i figured it was good. In my list i had drop pods and wolf scouts and out flank thunder wolves with the battle leader

Solid list mate, you wont be disappointed with how the outflanking guard perform, trust me

3 HQs do not have to reserve? So you are leaving one behind?
[At the moment I am pointing my gun in the direction I think you must come, clever girl will come later.]
That is your could start with 3 units on the board, not in dedicated transports, if you wanted to. So 1 has to start on the board.
That doesn't include the wolfguard which may or may not count.

Anyway your aeroplane will be shot down at the end of its movement phase. Inceptors are so common.
Then the rest of your units are not killy enough.

MFletch wrote:3 HQs do not have to reserve? So you are leaving one behind?
[At the moment I am pointing my gun in the direction I think you must come, clever girl will come later.]
That is your could start with 3 units on the board, not in dedicated transports, if you wanted to. So 1 has to start on the board.
That doesn't include the wolfguard which may or may not count.

Negative. Read the first post again, or the rules for Deep Strike again. The models embarked on the Drop Pod do not count, so the two Space Wolves HQ get ignored. Only the CCS gets counted.

MFletch wrote:Anyway your aeroplane will be shot down at the end of its movement phase. Inceptors are so common.
Then the rest of your units are not killy enough.

Are they? I haven't seen that many....

Seems fun though I'm not a big SW fan I'd much prefer that be Blood Angel but to each there own lol. Solid fun list it looks like man!

Yeah, I don't see much that has the Interceptor rule at all with the exception of the Mounted Guns (i.e. Quad Gun, Icarus Lascannon) so those Vendettas will be just fine.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Yeah, I don't see much that has the Interceptor rule at all with the exception of the Mounted Guns (i.e. Quad Gun, Icarus Lascannon) so those Vendettas will be just fine.

Everyone seems to be taking a fortification, as most codices can not deal with flyers by themselves.
Interceptor gun against one aeroplane can easily it down it in the turn it arrives.

One gun is not that much of a threat to a Flyer. Look at what is required:

1) The gun must be manned if they want better than BS2
2) The Vendetta has to be in range of the gun (which likely has a 48" range and I can Outflank so it is conceivable to remain outside its range)
3) The gun must have Skyfire (the case for fortification weapon mounts)
4) If it fires like this it doesn't fire their next turn.

So lets look at the Quad Gun which is likely to be the common selection. You have 4 shots, probably at BS 3 or BS 4, with re-rolls to hit. Statistically that's 2 or 3 hits. Then you need a 5 to Glance and a 6 to Pen. Those odds are aren't bad, but they aren't that great either. Chances are its going to just be a single Hull Point lost, which means you are still in the air.

And that is provided I didn't destroy it on Turn 1 with a Drop Pod. It is a Toughness 7, 2 Wound object with a 3+ save. With the Plasma I'm packing, if I find Gun Emplacements are that much of a danger I will make a point to nuke it early.

I think actually you will be in range of the quad gun, as you'll want to be close.

Then at BS4 losing a hull point will happen (8/9)(1/3)=0.3 of the time for each shot. So a 4*0.3^3*0.7+0.3^4=0.08 of the time it will down the flyer by hull points.
The chances of getting an explode out right from one shot is (8/9)(1/6)(1/6)=0.025. So exploding with 4 will be 1-(1-0.025)^4=0.1
That is pretty high for taking out a unit before it does anything in the battle.
The lascannon is even better.

So you plan to use drop pods to go after quadguns, also they will get to shoot your plasma carrying troops first. You have one plasma gun.

I do stick by the statement that you need more than one aeroplane, in order for them to stay alive.

I think is a fairly clever list but the only question I have is in regards to what point games you are planning on playing?

1904 seems to be quite the odd number although clever for trying to get your list to work I suppose.

I would think the common point games would be 1500, 1750 or 2000 so your list is either over or spotting your opponent a lot of points. What would you add in for the last 96 points?

Hialmar...he actually asked for advice with the 96 points in the original post.

I haven't really thought of anything.

Your HQs actually count for deployment so you have 3 that can thus can reserve 2 leaving an hq on the table.

This creates a flaw in your battle plan for the null deployment. Also you have a partial piecemeal arriving even if it is a 2+ you need to roll.

Full reserves works rarely and the risk before was small that you only lose if at the end of the game you had nothing. Now it is turn.

rogueeyes wrote:Your HQs actually count for deployment so you have 3 that can thus can reserve 2 leaving an hq on the table.

Wrong. Read the first post again and reference the pages for the rules if you don't trust my quotes. The models embarked on the Drop Pod get ignored. It specifically says Models and not Units, and this does mean that Independent Characters attached to squads embarked on a Drop Pod get ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hialmar wrote:I think is a fairly clever list but the only question I have is in regards to what point games you are planning on playing?

1904 seems to be quite the odd number although clever for trying to get your list to work I suppose.

I would think the common point games would be 1500, 1750 or 2000 so your list is either over or spotting your opponent a lot of points. What would you add in for the last 96 points?

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Hialmar...he actually asked for advice with the 96 points in the original post..

What he said. If you have any thoughts I'd love to hear them. Currently I'm entertaining a few thoughts:

1) Add Meltaguns to the Company Command Squad and turn them into a suicide squad. The Astropath only needs to be used in the first few turns and works while off the board. Still leaves me 56 points unaccounted for... Possibly use it to flush out the Special Weapons options for the Infantry Platoon.

2) Ditch the Wolf Guard Battle Leader (130 points) and bring in my Wolf Lord (215 points). Leaves me only 11 points left I'd likely use on more Wargear for the Lord, and no room for any other real options.

3) Give Plasma Guns to the Long Fang Pack Leaders (30 points and probably a bad idea, they can't fire while using Fire Control but it would be nice for Overwatch since I'm up close).

4) Try to free up 20 points to take a third Infantry Squad with Al'rahem.

Edit: 5) Spend the points on Marbro and have 31 left over. Since he has to start in Reserve he doesn't count either.

Also, MFletch, I have Combi-Plasma for each Grey Hunter squad and several Bolters. Statistically, the Bolters on 7 Grey Hunters alone will cause a wound despite the high toughness and 3plus save. Then I also have the Pack Leader, possibly an HQ, and the Plasmagun. Not to mention the Storm Bolter on the Drop Pod. I'm fairly confident. No guts no glory, hey?

cowmonaut wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:Your HQs actually count for deployment so you have 3 that can thus can reserve 2 leaving an hq on the table.

Wrong. Read the first post again and reference the pages for the rules if you don't trust my quotes. The models embarked on the Drop Pod get ignored. It specifically says Models and not Units, and this does mean that Independent Characters attached to squads embarked on a Drop Pod get ignored.

Preparing reserves on page 124 says otherwise, champ. Is an independant character considered a unit?

Barksdale wrote:Preparing reserves on page 124 says otherwise, champ. Is an independant character considered a unit?

Again, read the first post. In the spoiler tag. Specifically the Deep Strike rules on Page 36. There is a specific exception when it comes to Transports that must Deep Strike.

Believe me, I was very careful that this list was legal before posting.

Edit: You edited your post when I replied. Independent Characters are models, no? Therefore they get ignored per the Deep Strike rules on page 36 thanks to being embarked on a Transport that must Deep Strike.

cowmonaut wrote:

Barksdale wrote:Preparing reserves on page 124 says otherwise, champ. Is an independant character considered a unit?

Again, read the first post. In the spoiler tag. Specifically the Deep Strike rules on Page 36. There is a specific exception when it comes to Transports that must Deep Strike.

Believe me, I was very careful that this list was legal before posting.

Edit: You edited your post when I replied. Independent Characters are models, no? Therefore they get ignored per the Deep Strike rules on page 36 thanks to being embarked on a Transport that must Deep Strike.

Right, but why are you not counting your SW HQ's towards your 'unit total' as per preparing reserves on page 124? Independant characters have to be left in reserve, after which time you declare if they are joining a unit also in reserve.

I just read independant character box on page 39, and I'm finding the answer to the question 'are independant characters units' a little ambigious.

Deep Striking transports have more specific rules on page 36, which override those on page 124. The point of which is pretty clearly to allow pod lists to work.

Please ignore.