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Here's another game of mine, trying an experimental mech/bike hybrid. I've been struggling with how to fill out the last ~500 points of my bike list with something that works and synergizes well, and haven't found anything I've liked. I'm still looking for suggestions, as well as tactics comments and how to write a better read for a report.
Space Marines List :
Spoiler:
++HQ++
Khan
Magister Sevrin Loth
++Elite++
Terminator Assault Squad
Land Raider Spartan
Armoured Ceramite
Techmarine
++Troops++
Bike Squad
+1 member
x2 plasma
MM attack bike
Bike Squad
+1 member
x2 plasma
MM attack bike
Bike Squad
+1 member
x2 plasma
MM attack bike
++Fast Attack++
2x MM Attack Bike
++Heavy Support++
Vindicator
Dozer Blade
Vindicator
Dozer Blade
Thunderfire Cannon
Imperial Guard List :
Spoiler:
++HQ++
Company Command Squad
Officer of the Fleet
Melta gun x2
Plasmagun x2
Vox-caster
Chimera
Warlords :
Khan: Night Attacker (Can force night fight on turn 1)
CCS w/ Officer of the Fleet: Intimidating Presence (Enemy units within 12" must use lowest Leadership value)
Pre Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
He's got a lot of models. He outnumbers me about 2:1 and has a huge wall of armor. Luckily the worst squad I have for taking out tanks is shooting S6 Blast Heavy 4 and his highest AV is 12. His huge number of scoring bodies concerns me, however, I feel I have enough weapons to pop the transports and enough templates to kill the survivors with ease. On Loth, I sub out C:SM powers for the Telekinesis powers in hopes of shutting down some vehicles.
Deployment:
I deploy fairly aggressively. Basically, shoving everything as far forward as I can while still in cover or out of LoS in case he seizes the initiative. Thunderfire Cannon bolsters his own ruin, of course. I put one Bike Squad and the Attack Bike squad into Outflanking reserves in order to see how rough the Officer of the Fleet is against me. I also figure that if they are delayed until turn 4, that will protect them from much of my opponent's firepower and allow them to sneak objectives.
My opponent basically makes a parking lot, using his Chimeras as walls to stop me from ever reaching his artillery. This turns out to be crucial, as I lack any skimmers to hop the impassable terrain and the future wrecked vehicles.
We reveal objectives and I get fairly lucky - I start off with the 4 point objective, and one of the 3 point objectives is in open terrain, albeit surrounded by woods. The 3 point objective in the lake is unfortunate for me. Having the 1 point objective in the back of my deployment zone is rather unfortunate, however.
We fail to get Night Fight, but I force it anyways.
Space Marines 1 :
Spoiler:
Bikes all push forward 12", while vehicles all move 6" or less to stay in cover and optimize firing.
My first Vindicator starts off with a whiff, but the other Vindicator, TFC and Land Raider combine to knock down a Hydra and stun a Chimera. Everything else is saved, including several more hits on some Chimeras. I was hoping for First Blood, but at least I caused some damage. I forget to turbo-boost the teal Bike Squad because I'm a bad player.
Imperial Guard 1 :
Spoiler:
The IG player shifts a Hydra... and that's it. Everything holds and fires.
Which amounts to exactly nothing. Several units are out of LoS, scatter dice don't treat him well and Night Fighting removes the rest of his shots. I only end up having to make a few saves and pass them all.
Space Marines 2 :
Spoiler:
Well, so far so good. I'm closer and I still have a chance at First Blood. The black Bike Squad comes in on the east board edge, but he forces a reroll and they come in on the west. I decide to go after his Chimera instead of his Basilisk, which probably was a mistake. Khan's Bike Squad moves to wreck a Chimera, while the teal Bike Squad spreads out behind the hill to be ready to hop over the next turn. Vindicators both push out of the ruins to line up shots, and the Land Raider advances slowly to not block the TFC.
One Vindicator moved 12", so it pops smoke. The black Bike Squad wrecks the Chimera near it. Green Bike Squad wrecks its Chimera as well, forcing an emergency disembarkation. However, between black and green Bike Squads, I lose 3 bikes from plasma overheat and dangerous terrain tests. My Vindicator up north starts its Crusade of Fail for the evening, and manages to whiff the newly disembarked Veteran Squad and its Chimera entirely. My Land Raider, not to be out-done, fails to do any damage to the Hydra in front of it despite having 2 TL lascannon shots. At least my TFC managed to wreck the Chimera.
Imperial Guard 2 :
Spoiler:
Everything comes in for the IG. The infantry platoon comes in near the lake, pretty much his only move. Vendettas take up a spot in the middle of the map. No movement besides.
His platoon squad opens up on my teal Bike Squad, and here is where the dice turn. Despite movement and lasguns vs T5, I lose 4 bikes. His Vendettas open fire on my black Bike Squad and wipe them out, cover be damned as I fail every save. Khan's green Bike Squad takes enough casualties to force a Morale Check. And his Basilisk opens up on my 300+ pt Land Raider... exploding it with a 6 on the first semi-threatening shot thrown in its direction. The lone Attack Bike flees, nearly killing himself in the ruins in the process.
In a single shooting phase, I lose nearly 700 points between the Land Raider and two full Bike Squads.
Space Marines 3 :
Spoiler:
It hasn't really sunk in that I'm in trouble yet. I still have lots of threatening vehicles on the board and much of my heaviest firepower now have good targets. My Attack Bikes fail to come in again.
Loth decides to go lone wolf and splits from the terminators. He smacks the Valks with OM, getting a glance on each. He puts up a Telekine Dome on the Vindicator and saves the last warp charge for shooting. Terminators advance out of the crater on the armored wall in front of them. Teal Attack Bike gets a better idea and goes after the 4 point objective. Green Bike Squad moves back, while each Vindicator pushes forward to line up better shots.
My north Vindicator continues his crusade, managing to kill only two guardsman despite landing the template on most of the unit. The other Vindicator manages to entirely miss the parking lot of Chimeras near the lake. My TFC shows again why Techmarines are better and smacks each of the Chimeras for a hull point or two. Loth tries to Assail the Vendettas but doesn't do any damage.
The terminators try to go for a 10" assault... and make it! A bit of luck. They wreck the Hydra easily and consolidate (is this legal? Does wiping out your opponent override the no consolidate move for assaulting vehicles?).
Imperial Guard 3 :
Spoiler:
Realizing they are in blast template formation, the Chimeras spread out some. Vendettas fly off the board due to a lack of targets and not liking get smacked with Haywire.
His shooting phase is thankfully less punishing. The Basilisk misses, while the Manticore immobilizes my Vindicator. The Platoon fires at the TFC to no effect. Still, his two CCS and Veteran Squad wipe out my green Bike Squad (I get hit by 6 wounds, fail 5 saves between 3+ and 4++), leaving Khan by himself with 1 wound. I now have 2 scoring units left, and 3 scoring models.
Space Marines 4 :
Spoiler:
My Attack Bikes come in automatically. I position them near the 1 point objective to not get mauled by entire platoon. One Vindicator continues its advance, while Khan goes to hide. Terminators advance over the hill. Loth meanders around, making his saving throw invulnerable and not much else, now that his playmates flew away.
To the surprise of no one, my Vindicator fails to kill any guardsman. So far, despite having 3 shots so far on this squad, he's managed to kill a grand total of 2 guardsman. And the Chimera makes its cover save. The other Vindicator crew wakes up, however, and mauls two Chimeras with a single shot. The Techmarine calls over, "Challenge Accepted" and wipes out an Infantry Squad while wrecking surviving Chimera from the Vindicator's shot on a scatter (intentional, of course).
The Assault Terminators declare it's Hammer Time and obliterate the last Chimera near the lake. Of course, the explosion mauls the Infantry Squad inside... and two Terminators die.
Imperial Guard 4 :
Spoiler:
Vendettas come back again. Veterans realize they have legs and move next to the 3 point objective nearest them.
The Vendettas manage to finish off the TFC, which has taken a lot of the IG's firepower. The Techmarine mutters something about getting the next one Skyfire... A basilisk shell manages to land on Attack Bike and mauls him. My opponent penetrates my Vindicator and calls "Another 6!" like he did with my Land Raider... and gets it. I'm now down to 10 models, 2 of whom are scoring.
Space Marines 5 :
Spoiler:
I realize that if my opponent drops a Veteran Squad on the 4 point objective I automatically lose the game, and taking it myself gives me a decent shot of pulling this out of the gutter. I move both Attack Bikes to do so - a big risk, considering they're my only two scoring units and one of them is worth a VP on top of that. Loth starts of by trying to hit the Vendettas with OM, and gets another glance on both. Loth tries to Gate of Infinity right in front of the Veteran Squad holding the 3 point objective, but scatters 12" straight south. Putting him in range of 4-5 plasma and melta. He makes his saving throw invulnerable. I decide I have to risk Khan at this point. Even if I hold the 4 VP objective, I'm only at 6. My opponent can just switch to skimmer mode on the Vendettas, take a 2 point objective with the Veterans and scoot the Vendettas to another for 7 points and no dice rolls.
My Vindicator crew finally decides that being outnumbered nearly 4:1 is worthy of its time and slaughters the Veteran Squad in front of him. I can't Vortex with Loth and his shooting his ineffective. Khan doesn't contribute. One Attack Bike turbo-boosts, the other shoots at the Vendetta and misses. I only needed a glance to drastically shift the outcome of this game, but it was not to be. The Veterans break, ending up right next to Khan... and I get a light bulb moment. I have Khan assault them, and he only manages to kill one in assault. The Veterans hold, and here's where I misplay, badly. I for some reason think the CCS can score, so I Hit and Run right on to the objective (It seems you must move the distance rolled and cannot move less, is this correct?).
I end my turn knowing I put up a fight, at least - I've got 6 points, however tentative that may be, while my opponent has 0.
Imperial Guard 5 :
Spoiler:
The Vendettas go into skimmer mode after much debate. The Veterans take the easy 2 points while the last Infantry Squad advances on the Terminators screening the 3 point objective in the lake.
A terminator dies to the lasfire of two guardsman. The Vendettas open up on the Attack Bike Squadron, wiping them out. I completely forget that I hit them with OM last turn, and would have been able to force multiple rerolls. The Veterans kill my last troop Attack Bike. Khan has to make one invulnerable save, which he fails. So just about everything went wrong, except Loth survives his shooting. Some plasma gunners die of overheating in sweet justice, but then I realized my plasma gunners cost three times as much as his.
Space Marines 2 - Imperial Guard 3
And luckily, we get a turn 6!
Space Marines 6 :
Spoiler:
Terminators advance. Vindicator moves to salvage his reputation and the game - if he can wreck the Vendettas and chase off the Veterans, that'll be a 3 point swing. Loth goes for the kill on the Vendettas... and gets a 1. He wrecks the second Vendetta, however, giving me some hope. He tries to make his saving throw invulnerable and fails his first psychic test. I still think the CCS is scoring and move him to block them from disembarking and to contest the 3 point objective. One Tech Marine advances on the Veterans angrily, while the other has split from the terminators to try a rear bolter shot on the Vendettas.
My Vindicator crew finally makes me proud as his shot connects! On my Techmarine. In my frustration, I forget to try to Go to Ground. He clips only two Veterans, leaving them at enough to not take a Morale Check. The other Techmarine can only hit the Vendettas, but misses. Loth tries to do something but fails. The Terminators assault the last two guardsman, and another dies in assault. The last terminator kills off the remnants of the squad. Yes, I traded 2 Assault Terminators for 2 Imperial Guardsmen.
Imperial Guard 6 :
Spoiler:
He plays out the turn, but unless the game continues and the stars align next turn I'm done. His Vendetta seals the deal by stunning my Vindicator - it's out for the rest of the game regardless. Loth gets smoked by a single melta shot. The T5 was very nice everywhere else... I missed not having that on Loth.
The game ends here. I barely scrounge out not getting tabled - one Techmarine, one Terminator and one stunned Vindicator is all that is left. He gets Slay the Warlord, 1 VP for my Attack Bike Squadron, and a 2 VP objective. I get 1 VP for First Blood.
Space Marines 1 - Imperial Guard 4
Victory to the Imperial Guard!
I apologize in advance for the wall of text for thoughts. It's been a long time since I've been nearly tabled, especially by a matchup that should not have been this tough for me.
Post Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
I made many mistakes this game, but I think most critical was poor analysis of my opponent's list. Seeing all the mech IG I expect a parking lot or him to push forward against me. In response, I loaded up the board with lots of big, LoS blocking terrain. I neglected to realize that most of his firepower was indirect or short ranged, so firing lanes were actually more important for me than they were for him, which is bizarre to say against IG.
I cost myself the game with several mistakes, failing to ensure my tactics would actually produce a win. Going for the CCS was entirely wrong, for some reason I thought they were scoring and were going to scoop up that 3 point objective to get the win. This cost me both Linebreaker and gave my opponent Slay the Warlord, as well as tying up Loth. Had I not made this mistake, I could have moved Loth to get another VP somewhere - kill his CCS, finish off the Vendetta, or stop the Veterans from taking the 2 point objective. This would have swapped a bad loss into a tie or even a win, despite heavy losses.
Risking the Attack Bikes to block off the 4 point objective I feel was necessary, but it failed miserably. Had I not done so, I would have kept the 1 point objective to the east and denied my opponent 1 point for killing my Attack Bikes, but I feel a lucky disembark would have allowed him to secure the 4 point objective as well.
Putting out so much terrain was brutal against my list. It meant I really struggled to get my units to operate together, and lots of dangerous terrain tests amounted to several dead bikes. The cover saves barely helped me as I failed nearly all of them and FomT meant I lost many others.
While I was finishing my turn two, I realized that I had killed 3 of my own models in one turn before my opponent killed any. That's fine when you're running a big list, but I only have 30 models, so I dropped 10%. By the end of the game, I had lost 7 models to terrain and friendly fire (2 bikes to plasma overheat, 2 terminators to exploding a vehicle they assaulted, 1 techmarine to my vindicator and 2 bikes to dangerous terrain). That's plain awful in a low model count list.
Detailed Unit Analysis:
I'm going to use a simple 5 point scale, with 5 being excellent.
++HQ++
Khan - (2.5) - Outflanking was worthless this game, but I never would have used Combat Tactics. Outflanking was only worthless because of my opponent's Officer of the Fleet and the huge amount of difficult terrain on the board. Besides that, changing him for a Captain with pfist + ss + artificer armor wouldn't have changed anything, so I don't feel any great loss there. Hit and Run was useful, though. Basically I'm taking Khan for Hit and Run and because he makes my bikes Troops and gives them Outflanking. If I could get Troop bikes with any other HQ besides a Captain I'd probably take that instead.
Magister Sevrin Loth - (4) - This guy is getting a lot of complaints about being overpowered, and after this game I'd have to disagree. First, he only has 3 warp charge. I think a lot of the knee jerk reaction is over that he gets 6 rolls - but he can't use all of them every turn, and there are at least 1-2 bad powers in every table anyways. He's also limited to the worst 3 tables, in my opinion (I'd much rather have Divination or Telepathy, especially with ML 3) and he must take all powers from the same table, another harsh limitation.
Now, in this game, I felt he was pretty solid. Objuration Mechanicum smacked the Valkyries for 5 hull points over 3 turns, Gate of Infinity gave me the mobility I needed, even if scatter meant my gambit failed. Telekine Dome was nice on paper, but I failed every 5+ save it granted me. The other powers were all pretty worthless, however. Crushing a single model, even of my choice isn't that useful against IG, and 3d6 would be lucky to get a glance. Assail is pretty weak, even if you can line up several units it doesn't do a lot of damage, and Shockwave just seems awful except against maybe foot IG or foot Tau. Vortex is of course, nice, but the 2 warp charge cost makes it hard to use.
++Elite++
Terminator Assault Squad - (3) - Despite their ride being wrecked, these guys did alright for themselves. They trashed some light vehicles and mopped up two infantry squads. On the other hand, they lost 4 models to frighteningly little (2 to Chimera explosion, 1 to IG assault, 1 to lasfire) and didn't really get their points back.
Land Raider Spartan - (1) - Wow, was this guy a disappointment. 300+ points and still gone in a single shot, only taking 3-4 mid-strength shots before disappearing. Further, despite have 4 TL lascannons + TL heavy bolter, it couldn't manage a kill of its own despite a wall of 10-12 AV. I've only run Land Raiders before in pairs or more, and this was a good reminder why. I was really hoping this would swat a flier or two, but instead it might as well have not been on the board.
Techmarine 50 - (2) - This guy was basically taken because I had 1950 points and not a lot of options to fill it out nicely. It was either this, another attack bike, or extra bike members and melta bombs around. He could have kept the Land Raider going nicely, but it blew up instead. His one servo-arm attack compares okay to the 2 th attacks a terminator would get in his place. Not a great use of 50 points, but in a different scenario he would be useful.
++Troops++
Bike Squad - (3) - T5, Jink and power armor only goes so far when you fail saves left and right. Even still, I don't think they're as durable as a Tactical Squad in a Razorback/Rhino. The few vehicles I have just mean that the Bike squads take all the high S / low AP shots, and they're not meant to do that. I either need to play them more defensively or get more of them. Probably both.
++Fast Attack++
MM Attack Bike (2) - These were poor. I've not had them work out in any game so far, despite them benefiting from Outflanking at basically no cost and having a similar profile to Land Speeders. I really think Land Speeders are more durable, they might lose a gun or become immobilized to a high powered shot, but the Attack Bike is just plain dead. They are 10 points cheaper, but I'm not sure it's really worth it. I missed not having any suicide units to jump terrain with either.
++Heavy Support++
Vindicator - (1 and 4) - Very mixed results from these guys. The vindicator on my right flank was absolutely awful. He dropped 4 pie plates on bunched up IG infantry and killed a total of ~10 veterans and my techmarine. Also had 3-5 potential hits on AV 10 and didn't connect with a single shot and pretty much was damaged by every squad that shot at him. The vindicator on my left flank was the exact opposite. He wrecked/exploded 3-4 vehicles by himself, got several infantry in explosions and took several shots to go down, despite taking much more firepower than my other vindicator. Despite having cover or invulnerable saves much of the game, I never made a single one.
Thunderfire Cannon - (4) - Solid all around. Despite having a saturation of non-ideal targets (AV 12 is barely damageable), it still managed a handful of glances and mauled a PIS. Further, it took a large amount of firepower to bring down. It took several turns of Chimera + Hydra fire, plus an entire round of shooting from the full platoon squad, plus a round of shooting from the vendettas and still the techmarine survived and could have salvaged me the game. T7 W2 2+/4++ is very hard to remove, especially at 100 points.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2012/08/14 00:16:10
Seems like the dice conspired against you more often than not. I'd recommend giving the army another go (particularly away from Vassal...that RNG will screw you every time!) before you pass judgement. You fought against a pretty potent list, and a few saves or scatters different and things would have come out quite a bit different!
Thanks for posting, I'll look for you on Vassal some weekend!
I was the Imperial Guard player in this game. The Griffin was a pleasant surprise for me. Although they only have a strength of six which is much less powerful than the Basilisk's Earthshaker cannon they more than make up for it in terms of cost and the addition of Accurate Bombardment.
