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To view the previous report in this series, click here. To view the next report in this series, click here. To view more battle reports in The Hand of the King series, click here.

To view the tactical overview for this report, click here.

Melchoir huddled deeper into his blanket. The front flap of his lean-to whipped maniacally in the gale force wind. The angry hiss of sleet and freezing rain seethed through the ruins and soaked absolutely everything. Now and again, the blasting storm would shift just so slightly, sending a wave of frozen torment cascading into the tent. Just as quickly, the wind would shift again, leaving the tiny pellets of ice to melt into the mud pack floor.

The officer looked up at Sanario, who was also crammed into the tarp leaned up against the side of the ruined building, but didn't seem to mind the cold as much. He grunted with irritation as the wind made it difficult for him to read from his prayer book, flipping the pages back and forth erratically nearly as fast as he was able to re-find his place. Melchoir was glad that there was a priest to pray for them. Things were going badly for the Foleran forces.

Everywhere the crusade was meeting with disaster. Poor coordination between ground and space-borne forces was wreaking havoc, and despite being badly outnumbered, the enemy still exercised air superiority over the planet. Desperate to consolidate SOME gains from the initial planetfall, battle command had shrunk down the total area that was being fought over. Instead of dozens of landing sites spread all across the planet at strategic locations, the ground forces had been redeployed into three, new, massive positions. The new plan would be to link up this triangle to create a no-pass zone for enemy troops and fighters. Perhaps then the army would have a safe source of supply from the ships above and, properly equipped and in a sound defensive position, would finally be able to affect the breakthrough required to win back the planet.

The few remnants of Melchoir's initial planetfall forces had been disbanded and absorbed into other units. Melchoir himself and his attendant priest were redeployed with a new unit. The demand for Kingsguard had proven unquenchable, and battle command had called for another massive expansion of the program. It was all that could be done to prevent cutting corners as troops were rushed onto the field. The new plan, after a few months of training, was to take cadet Kingsguardsmen and throw them into the fight to gain some practical battlefield experience before their training was finished off at their scholas. The officer was given one such cadet outfit with the hope that new soldiers would be able to glean something from his considerable experience on the field.

To his great discomfort, though, he was also assigned a regimental sorcerer. As the cadets were a more important asset, it seemed fit to battle command to make sure that they had extra protection. The witch made his skin crawl, but he couldn't bring himself to break orders by keeping him as far away as possible. Furthermore, he sensed a strange reluctance by his priest with regards to purging the mutant from their midst.

Melchoir checked his watch. It was time to go. The ruins that he was occupying had been the site of a dozen battles already, bastions and hasty fortifications put up everywhere. He had ordered a break to be taken to give his troops a brief respite for food, and to get out of the murderous barrage of liquid ice and tiny hail. Despite the ferocity of the storm, though, there was a time table to keep, and he meant to keep it.

It only took him a few minutes to get his men going again. The intense training that the cadets had already undergone over the past few months was telling compared to his regular soldiers. The soldiers broke camp nearly instantly and were formed up and ready to go in a moments notice. The stinging ice seemed to make no impact on either discipline or morale.

Melchoir gave the order, and the troops began to march forward as the storm blasted around them.



As they picked over the slick rocks and freezing mud, Sanario began to mutter the litany of "The Forbearance of Foul Weather Glorifies our Souls in His Name", something which he had committed to memory long ago. He was just about to start on the fourteenth stanza when the officer's micro-vox clicked into action.

The scouting party had run across more than rain shifting in the mists.



Melchoir gave the order to move up and engage the enemy.

The sound of crackling plasma guns snapped over the gale just out of Melchoir's vision. To his right, his cadets neatly took up defensive positions behind a barricade, one of them manning an abandoned anti-aircraft gun. He didn't know what the gun would be shooting at in the storm, but he conceded that it must have felt better than having only a lasgun between you and the enemy.

A strange sound split the air above the officer. He looked up to see a black shape approaching him through the downpour. It was an enemy fighter! Instead of attacking through the storm, this enemy menace was attacking him IN the storm. Melchoir shouted in alarm as more black shapes descended on his soldiers.





The anti-aircraft gunner, quickly swiveled around and delivered a long stream of concussive violence up into the driving sleet. Not able to properly see his target, he swept up in the general direction of his foe.

The officer raced forward.

"There!" he shouted over the storm, "Take that one down! Right there!"

Troops scrambled forward to man the barricade, when suddenly a new threat emerged from the mist before them.



The officer didn't even need to give the order for the troops to shift fire onto the new threat careening down upon them. With well-aimed shots, the cadets blasted the enemy warlord in his chariot, the shots pattering helplessly off the front armor as the warlord raised his arcane metal scythe in preparation for ending the lives of the guardsmen.


***

The witch perceived his environment with cold calculation. He didn't appear to even notice the storm, much less be bothered by it. The terrors that other's ignorance shielded them from was plain before the psyker at every moment. What was the purpose of wasting effort on a little rain when there were demons present everywhere yearning to rip open a man's soul and eviscerate it from the inside out, maw dripping with saliva and tears. It would be like noticing your boot lace untied as you ran over a cliff to your certain doom.

He could feel the enemy, reaching out towards him in the void. Moreso, though, he could feel his compatriots. Their hopes. Their fears. The latter soon came to cascade upon him.

Blinking back visceral madness, his mind reached out before him. There was panic. There was death. Shouts of alarm began to pierce his mundane hearing.



Off to his right, the nightmarish threat had materialized. Swiftly it glided over the ruins and began to cut guardsmen in half as the whirling ice around him pierced the breeze.

Despite their hardened training, the guardsmen had begun to break against their invincible foe. The witch called out for his target. A voice in the warp.

He found it as the enemy finished off his butchering of the soldiers.

The two locked gazes. Both in the material world and in the warp.



The psyker calmed his mind and reached for his forbidden powers.

"Argas, Pargon, Naxos..." He began chanting as he began to sway back and forth. Not for reasons of the wind buffeting his body, but because of the tides of the warp washing over his soul.

"Karell, Eismin, Pargon..." He continued, the words of the mantra focusing his mind. His spirit began to boil the warp around him, now a small ripple and then another. Now a churning and heaving of empyrian substance.

"BANKARON, ZELOTATH..." His frail voice lifted to an unearthly boom.

He could feel his target. He reached out to it in the warp. He could almost... touch... it. The waves of power swelled up in his body, the moment of impact stood at the threshold of his mind.



The witch screamed in a horrific shriek not producible by mortal man. The blasting wail of a dozen millenia spewed from his mouth in a vomit of blood. Untold power smashed his body and distorted time and space around him. He screamed again as he doubled over in agony, falling to his knee as his soul desperately gasped. He was drowning. Fear and panic overtook him as his lungs pooled with blood and his mind pooled with the raw substance of the warp.

Just at the moment of desire, a demon of the warp entered into him. He writhed back and forth, tearing at his clothing, desperately trying to hold onto his staff. The witch spasmed violently as the psyker abandoned his bodily functions to turn all of his efforts at fighting away the warp entity.

Not this time. Not would this moment be the hour of his eternal damnation, much less the perishing of his vulgar flesh to the material grave. The extensive surgery they had done on his brain began to take effect. Order began to emerge out of chaos. He began to see the warp around him again, still boiling from his presence. Still eager.

He opened his eyes.

Blood and sleet ran down his face. He was real again.


***

Lightning exploded around Melchoir as the fighters swooped down on him. Everyone threw themselves to the ground. Arcs of raw power shot around them, jumping from body to body, and crackling back up into the air in an unimaginable shower of light and heat.

They were everywhere.



"Bring them down! Bring them down!" Melchoir shouted desperately. The anti-aircraft gun desperately swung around, but pointing directly into the storm, the gunner was blinded by ice driving into his face.

Violence came in from every where and went out everywhere as the defenders desperately attempted to return fire against the sudden foe to no effect. An invincible black tide washed over them.

The officer looked over at the psyker perched on his rock. The two made eye contact. Melchoir felt his stomach drop out of him as he stared into the witch's blood-soaked eyes, all but incomprehensible of the carnage around him.

"DO SOMETHING!" he screamed at the psyker. The robed man returned to his feet, wiping the blood off of his face with his sleeve.

He looked up to the heavens as lightning crackled all around him. He lifted his staff high into the air as the wind and the sleet pounded into him, whipping his garments frantically around him.

"BANKARON, ZELOTATH, PARGON!" the psyker boomed against the storm with a voice from the outer world. He reached his hand out towards one of the circling enemy aircraft.

With the screech of a thousand steel plates ripping into each other, a colossal blast of power exploded from the psyker's hand. As much lightning as was getting shot at them was returned a hundredfold in a massive cone of incomprehensible destruction. The power slammed into the flying craft, a thousand shafts of lightning instantly obliterating the vessel, blasting nothing but a fine shrapnel cloud up and away from the psyker as the flying menace disintegrated against his otherworldly might.

The officer stared on in disbelief.

Sudden cries for help swirled around him. He returned his focus to his men. The enemy chariot had slammed into his lines, scattering the men before him in a bloody display of martial prowess.



The enemy warlord grabbed his standard bearer and cut him in half with one swift movement. Sanario charged in, but was beaten senseless with the standard before he could swing his blade. The enemy threw away the standard and looked at Melchoir.

No, not this time.

The officer activated his power fist and grabbed the enemy warscythe as it came crashing down towards his head. The disruptor field on the gauntlet reeled against the power of the arcane staff. The enemy jerked his scythe back up quickly, but Melchoir hung on, the inhuman strength of the warlord lifting him up off the ground and onto the chariot. The officer let go, and the enemy slammed his weapon into him, but the shot bounced off his refractor, sending a shower of sparks and light into the wind blasting across the deck of the battle barge.

The enemy was momentarily disoriented by the sudden movement of his blade. Melchoir looked up through the sparks and through the storm. He was face to face against the cold, relentless gaze of his enemy. With a loud shout, the officer brought forth his power fist and smashed it into the warlord's face.

A second shower of sparks exploded across the barge, and into Melchoir's face. The chariot lurched and careened to the left. He jumped off the platform as the vehicle swept up and away into the storm.

He landed hard in the mud, dropping down to one knee. He looked up at the carnage around him. Everywhere the twisted casualties of his men lay strewn around the battlements. Those he still had that were fighting capable were making a fighting withdraw to a small copse of ruined trees. Enemy fighters continued to swirl around him in the driving sleet, firing at will on his positions.



This had to end, and to end now.

The officer switched off his power fist and ran over to the anti-aircraft gun.



He sat down and prepared the weapon to fire. In moments, the angry barking of the cannon blasted a steady stream into the storm. Melchoir strafed over one flier, who banked sharply as he found his mark with one of the shots.

Freezing rain poured into his eyes and ran down his face.

"AAAAAAAAH!" Melchoir screamed as blast after blast ripped into the air, desperate to find targets in the blinding hail.

He swung the main cannon after a swooping aircraft, his thunderous shots just trailing the vehicle. As it swept behind the bastion the psyker took aim from the woods, sending another small blast of lightning up into the air. The flyer bucked violently against the attack, turning and jetting off into the storm.

"Sir, look out!" one of his attendants shouted towards him. He turned and saw another battle barge careening towards him.



He desperately began to turn the gun. The cannon slowly traversed as the enemy sped towards him. All he needed to do was to just... get the gun... around...

At the last moment, the emplacement locked on target. Melchoir clenched on the trigger just as the chariot crashed into the anti-aircraft gun.

Melchoir flew backwards over the battlement.

The world went dark.


***

Melchoir huddled deeper into his blanket. His head hurt nearly as much as his back.

Over the endless blowing of the wind came the gut-pounding thuds of massive artillery fire. The senior magistrate marshal in charge of the operation had ordered an artillery barrage on all of the positions lost in the storm. For the next 48 hours, earthshaker cannons would pound the ruins into dust. If any of the enemy were still there, they wouldn't be two days from now. Nothing would be.

"Come on," Sanario said, getting stiffly up to his feet and offering a hand out to the officer. With the priest's help, Melchoir managed to get up off of the cot. He tossed his blanket behind him, and with help emerged into the icy spray.

Before him was a company of new cadets, eager to finally get some battlefield experience under their belt. With practiced discipline, they stood in file, attempting to be impervious to the freezing rain.

Melchoir took a quick glance at them. They would need to be ready soon. The imperial guard marched implacably on.


***

way to go Melchoir! very good narrative. Imagining him firing the AA was brilliant. Was hoping the whole time he was gonna make it through.

Interesting how the carapace vets turned out. It does seem like, once again, you got shafted by the terrible dice rolls, but I think this list has potential. I would definitely stick with it for a while and see how it goes.

Have you considered throwing in Russes or something along those lines to help support these guys? That's the only thing I can really think of that might work better for you. That and maybe try the aegis with an icarus lascannon, I don't see why people don't take it over the quad cannon.

Great stuff as always Ailaros - the storm effects were particularly good. I also like your two-phase reports, to cater for both sides of the bat rep community.

No fun with all those flyers I expect, time to get some Vendettas perhaps and fight fire with fire?

Great batrep. I found your old style batreps easier to learn from, but understand that those must have taken a ton of time. These narrative-style batreps are definitely very enjoyable. I thought the bit with Melchior manning the AA gun was especially well done, as was your description of Perils of the Warp on the Primaris Psyker. Inspired me to consider bringing one!

I simply cannot believe how bad your luck with the storm troopers has been. And I thought my dice were bad! I've not had that many mishaps over all the games I've used stormies let alone in one game!

Interesting to see how carapace may actually be worth the points in this edition. You've definitely got me thinking with this batrep!

I love your battle reports so much and I'm really sorry to see how 6th foot guard is treating you. I'm no expert on guard at all, but I was wondering if you've ever tried using Conscripts with Chenkov's "Send in the Next Wave?" One thing I notice that you're saying is that your guard don't have survivability despite their foot spam, well I was thinking something like this at 1850:

CCS

2x 10 stormies w/ meltas

pcs w/ chenkov
3 autocannon heavy weapon squads
2 infantry squads
50 conscripts

pcs
3 autocannon heavy weapon squads
2 infantry squads
50 conscripts

adl

Basically camp the 18 autocannons behind the adl and march the 120 guardsmen forward replacing conscripts squads when they get low on troops.

Just took a look at your blog Ailaros. Now I'm no expert on Guard but it seems to me 10 man squads simply won't cut it. Your special and heavy weapons just go down too fast, and since you put the points into expensive Vets and Stormtroopers you are left with a shortage of manpower very quickly.

Have you considered fliers of your own and Manticores? Vendettas/Valkyries give you mobility (I would put suicide PCS inside for late game objective grabbing and linebreaker), while Manticores help apply early pressure. Lots of guns on lots of cheap infantry would be my way forward, but that's just me. I know it's not a dedicated infantry platoon, but there is still room for plenty of bodies and sometimes a compromise is necessary.

At 1850 I would play something like:

CCS
4x Plasma

CCS
4x Plasma

PCS
4x Melta

2x IS - 2x Autocannon

PCS
4x melta

2x IS - 2x Autocannon

PCS
4x Melta

2x IS

Vendetta
Vendetta
Vendetta

Manticore
Manticore
Manticore

ADL

Good luck with your refinement process.

Necrons are a horrible match-up for foot guard. Especially coupled with such horrible melta luck. It just makes sense that when you switch all your troops to veterans, none of them can hit the side of a barn.

With such horrible luck shooting and all the ridiculous scatter, I'm not sure how much can be learned from this game other what you already noted. The current setup you have has a razor thin margin for error.

It's good that you didn't have to go anywhere either, because I'm still not convinced that it's possible to walk across the board with the weapons that are available now. 4+ save is nice, but it's only a 50-50 chance to live. With all those high strength weapons you're being forced to roll armor saves a lot.

Also, I'm not sure if your diagram is wrong in the tactical overview, but there should only be a single 4 point objective. Otherwise you'd have a tie.

Funk3140 wrote:way to go Melchoir! very good narrative. Imagining him firing the AA was brilliant.

If there's anything we've learned from recent games, it's that Melchoir can beat up darth vader, and that he's the 40k incarnation of Malcolm Reynolds:



I'd like to think Melchoir has a nearly as noble, if not nearly so charming personality as Mal.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Have you considered throwing in Russes or something along those lines to help support these guys? That's the only thing I can really think of that might work better for you. That and maybe try the aegis with an icarus lascannon, I don't see why people don't take it over the quad cannon.

I've been considering it, but what would I add, and what would I take away?

I'm already going to drop harker, and one of the plasma vet squads into a melta vet squad. That saves me enough points to upgrade the vets to carrying lascannons, but it could also be used for something else. I'd also, possibly, consider dropping one of the stormie squads, but that's only if I really trusted what took its place.

I like the idea of the support weapons, but if I go vehicles, it seems either flimsy AV12, or its going to be inefficient russes.

Gordy2000 wrote:No fun with all those flyers I expect, time to get some Vendettas perhaps and fight fire with fire?

I don't want to stoop to vendettas unless I literally have no choice. My choices do seem to be waning somewhat, though, so perhaps that time is getting closer.

NWansbutter wrote:Great batrep. I found your old style batreps easier to learn from, but understand that those must have taken a ton of time. These narrative-style batreps are definitely very enjoyable.

Thanks, but to be fair, most of the tactics are still there. There are only three things missing from the tactics part now. There is a lack of detailed description of who shot at who, but target prioritization is generally rather obvious. It is missing information on precise movements. Movements for objectives can be described vaguely and still be sufficient, while basically the rest of movement is designed to get your guns in range, which doesn't actually need that much description, especially in a world of pre-measuring.

The third thing its missing is a full category of specific die rolls. I've come to learn, though, that not all die rolls are created equal, and that the outcome of a game tends to hinge on a rather small set of events. These are described where I find it appropriate.

Of course, you could always take the opinion...

bogalubov wrote:With such horrible luck shooting and all the ridiculous scatter, I'm not sure how much can be learned from this game

... or even take it to the next level wherein you question how much you really learn from battle reports in the first place.

In any case, the lists, the missions, the objectives, and the deployment are all still in there, and that's where most of the player skill resides in this game anyways.

bogalubov wrote:It's good that you didn't have to go anywhere either, because I'm still not convinced that it's possible to walk across the board with the weapons that are available now. 4+ save is nice, but it's only a 50-50 chance to live. With all those high strength weapons you're being forced to roll armor saves a lot.

Boy I got a lot of use out of carapace this game, though. Having a 4+ save is an awful lot better than having no save. Interestingly enough, in this game, cover wasn't any different than armor against tesla weapons most of the time, which did allow me to run forward with my meltaguns more than I would have otherwise dared, allowing me to get in range unencumbered by the need to hang out in cover.

I think the idea is sound in principle, but I won't pass judgement on it without more proofing.

bogalubov wrote:Also, I'm not sure if your diagram is wrong in the tactical overview, but there should only be a single 4 point objective. Otherwise you'd have a tie.

So, it was actually different. We have scouring tokens at our store, but they've been getting mixed up and lost over time. The only ones left were two 4's, two 3's and two 2's. We both just agreed to go along with those points values, as it KIND of doesn't really matter what the actual totals are.

As for the tie, firstly I'd have to have avoided getting tabled. Secondly, my opponent controlled 4 objectives, the three on his side and my right side one, while nobody had my center. It could only have been a tie if, well, if I'd not already lost the game.

Lukus83 wrote:Just took a look at your blog Ailaros. Now I'm no expert on Guard but it seems to me 10 man squads simply won't cut it. Your special and heavy weapons just go down too fast, and since you put the points into expensive Vets and Stormtroopers you are left with a shortage of manpower very quickly.

... but... I brought 100 guardsmen. And everything had a 4+ save. And was behind an ADL.

Just how much more do I need in order to bring enough manpower?

Also, weapon upgrades aren't hidden anymore. Blobbing up does help them survive a little bit, but not enough to make a difference, I've found.

rivers64 wrote:I love your battle reports so much and I'm really sorry to see how 6th foot guard is treating you. I'm no expert on guard at all, but I was wondering if you've ever tried using Conscripts with Chenkov's "Send in the Next Wave?" One thing I notice that you're saying is that your guard don't have survivability despite their foot spam

Hah! The solution to guardsmen dying to fast is to bring a literally infinite supply of them?

I might try this out once my experiment with veterans is done. The problem, of course, is that while this does address the durability problem, it only exacerbates the killing power problem.

I don't think it's the manpower that's the problem. It's the fact your firepower was in fragile squads of 10. Sure blobs have issues, but do they really have more than 7 ablative IG wounds?

Ailaros wrote:

NWansbutter wrote:Great batrep. I found your old style batreps easier to learn from, but understand that those must have taken a ton of time. These narrative-style batreps are definitely very enjoyable.

Thanks, but to be fair, most of the tactics are still there. There are only three things missing from the tactics part now. There is a lack of detailed description of who shot at who, but target prioritization is generally rather obvious. It is missing information on precise movements. Movements for objectives can be described vaguely and still be sufficient, while basically the rest of movement is designed to get your guns in range, which doesn't actually need that much description, especially in a world of pre-measuring.

The third thing its missing is a full category of specific die rolls. I've come to learn, though, that not all die rolls are created equal, and that the outcome of a game tends to hinge on a rather small set of events. These are described where I find it appropriate.

The thing that I found the most helpful were the overview shots with the arrows showing where things went etc. But I believe I read that it took you three hours to do those up, so I completely understand why you're not doing them anymore. But on the whole I still find the batreps very informative and thought-provoking. I like that you try out lots of different things.

Another thought -- your disappointment with the quad gun has me thinking Icarus Lascannon. I just some quick and dirty math hammer Wansbutter style (i.e. just rolling a bunch of dice pretending that it represents different scenarios in a battle) this evening, and despite only having one shot (non-twin-linked) the Str 9 and +1 to damage result roll is huge. I did a bunch of dice rolling positing my blob's commissar manning the gun and consistently came up with a lot more kills. I guess the moral is who cares if you hit it more times if it's harder to damage it? Have you tried the Icarus lascannon?

In the case of both PISs and vet squads, you need to kill 9 guys in order to get down to a guy with a plasma gun.

The problem with, say, squads of 20, is that they're not actually that much more durable. As mentioned, if my opponents can kill 30-50 models per turn, whether they're grouped into squads of 10 or squads of 20 doesn't make much of a difference.

Plus, there's still the force concentration of non-vet infantry amongst other things.

I had the idea that carapace vets and more, cheaper infantry would wind up being about the same, durability-wise. This game bore that out, and I suspect that future ones will as well.

As for the icarus, I haven't tried it. This is my first time with an ADL at all. My biggest concern about the icarus is the lack of interceptor. I'm not too shaken up about the snap firing at ground targets, but I AM somewhat concerned about the lack of shooting at fliers before they get a chance to shoot. Why GW decided to split the skyfire/interceptor rules the way they did seems very strange, but so it goes.

1. There's only one 4 point objective in the Scouring. Your map shows 2.
2. Zooming Fliers don't have Jink unless they Evade.
3. The Icarus lascannon has both Skyfire and Interceptor

1.) explained

2.) I know. Handling fliers wasn't ALL that big of a problem. The problem is being able to handle everything else while handling fliers. The fliers were annoying, but the jink save AV13 transports were unassailable. Likewise last game it wasn't so much the fliers as that I couldn't handle fliers AND mass skimmer spam.

3.) oh.

Now at home with my IG codex. Bluntly my analysis of 6th so far is that 3 things dominate: MSU, Deathstars and fliers. The answer to all 3 (IMO) is overwhelming firepower. Have you considered just spamming the crap out of heavy/special weapons?

CCS
1x Lascannon

CCS
1x Lascannon

5x Stormtroopers
2x Meltaguns

5x Stormtroopers
2x Meltaguns

5x Stormtroopers
2x Meltaguns

PCS
4x Melta

2x PIS

3x Autocannon HWS

PCS
4x Melta

2x PIS

3x Autocannon HWS

Vendetta
Vendetta

Manticore
Manticore

I know you don't want Vendettas, but the mobility really is helpful, as is the fact they are now fliers, not just fast skimmers. Manticores take pressure off the HWS, at least initially, and on Turn 2 you are saturating the enemy with additional units (lots of suicide melta giving your opponent a tough choice...continue attacking the firebase or deal with the more immediate threats).

For the record I'm just throwing this out there. I don't play IG but have played against them a lot.

I'll direct you towards the previous reports in this series.

I agree that firepower is currently my problem, but HWSs aren't the way to go. I feel like there should be some new metric out there, like the Firepower per Turn on Board ratio, or something, sort of like on-base percentage for baseball. A HWS will do damage very efficiently while it survives, but they're so fragile that the amount of damage they do is actually rather limited, because they just don't survive long enough (or, worse, survive but have to stay gone to ground).

In this case, a russ has a better FTB ratio because, while it is less efficient (an exterminator puts down arguably half the firepower or less than autocannon HWSs), they are likely to actually survive past turn 1. A pair of autocannon HWSs that's off the board by the end of turn 2 is worse than a russ that's on the board the entire game.

Furthermore, your list has less staying power, what with a few more infantry models, but in a more killable format, especially with the HWSs that are likely to take a single instant death casualty and then break and run (or just get wiped out altogether.

And on top of that, I'm not actually certain it has more killing power. You're talking about 6 TLLCs, 2 storm eagle launchers and 18 autocannons with assorted other goodies. The list I'm running comes with a LOT of Ap3 firepower, along with 12 BS4 plasma guns and 7 BS4 autocannons with krak grenades, and a psyker, and more melta to boot. All while being less fragile.

It's not the worst list, but I'm unconvinced that it's much better.

If you agree firepower is the problem what solution do you think would work? I know HWS are easy kills so you either over saturate or just look at something else completely.

Why not try droping some vets for blast templates? Maybe would not have helped this game, but I noticed you don't really have any high Ap High strength blasts. If guard can do anything right, it is make it ran blast templates. Maybe adding in a colossus, basilisk or Medusa for some really heavy hitting power?

Thanks for the report, this is a great read.

Regarding your analysis of IG foot lists, I think you are making your conclusions from something like an elite footlist. Carapace Vets and ST are just way expensive, and 100 wounds is not a lot. At 1850, you could in theory put down 200 wounds, with arguably similar firepower. Anyway, Guard footlist to me is more about staying power and board control than firepower.

If firepower is the way to go, I would also not discount the HWS. I like your analysis on their FTB vs a Exterminator, but HWS have the advantage that you can spam them in extreme quantities. I am tempted to try the 15 HWS list with AGL. 15 targets is just way too many for an opponent to target, and those that do get shot at will go to ground for the 2+ cover. Just not sure how to fill out such a list to have enough mobility.

I think this list highlights another weakness of a vehicle-free list in 6th edition: The prevalence of Night Fight. All Guard vehicles come with searchlights free (or can buy them for a point). It's a cheap afterthought option that 100% Foot Guard just don't get access to. I'm not sure of any solutions that don't involve vehicles, but it does highlight the utility of one or two vehicles added to the list.

-Harker: 55
Plasma->Melta on one vet squad: 15
Drop the ADL alltogether (When you're paying for 4+ armor, I'm not comfortable paying for better cover, also): 100

Current Total Freed Up: 170

That's a Lascannon Exterminator right there, with no major loss in firepower or durability. You could also just drop the ACs in your melta vets and use the points to upgrade the ACs to LCs in your plasma vets. You've got a fair bit of S7 with your plasma guns, but Lascannons can do some work against heavier armor also. You could also give in and go for a Vendetta. It's not the most morally offensive unit for Foot Guard. An all foot formation is basically light infantry, and light infantry often operates with air support. You've already got valks dropping off your Stormtroopers, having one arrive on the tabletop isn't the worst thing.

If you just max out on hws for 2 platoons and camp them behind the adl, then thats 18 autocannons with 4+ cover, I don't think your opponent could take all that out turn 1.

Hey man. Just so you know, "The Hand of the King" reports are always my favorites to read on here, even if 6th Edition is proving to be troublesome for foot Guard armies. Keep it up.

Thanks!

As for HWSs, I'd invite people to look at the earlier reports in this series. I started 6th ed with 3 of them, and they were always instantly wiped out turn 1, with plenty of firepower left to spare. Had I brought more, my opponent would have killed them, rather than wasting their extra S6-8 firepower on my infantry or AV12 vehicles.

Plus, spamming HWSs creates problems of its own. The first few HWSs may be able to set up in spots of cover with great firing lanes, but once the choice spots are taken up, you're going to be putting them in places without cover, or in places where they're not able to actually see all that much. In these cases, the durability of an insanely fragile unit goes down even more, and their efficiency of firepower likewise goes down if they don't have good lanes of fire to actually shoot at stuff.

As for dura-vets being too expensive, I don't see it. I'm bringing 100 wounds of guardsmen at 1850 points. That's still a foot horde. Nobody is ACTUALLY bringing 200 guardsmen to an 1850 point fight. Apart from all of the serious practical and logistics issues, an 1850 point list with 200 guarsmen is likely going to be a really awful list.

I mean, for comparison, my last 1850 point list in 5th ed had 110 infantry models (115 wounds), and 6 ogryn. What I'm putting down isn't THAT much less, and when you add in the fact that everything is getting a 4+ save against bolters instead of NOTHING, and I really don't think the setup I've got here is significantly less durable.

Happygrunt wrote:Why not try droping some vets for blast templates? Maybe would not have helped this game, but I noticed you don't really have any high Ap High strength blasts. If guard can do anything right, it is make it ran blast templates. Maybe adding in a colossus, basilisk or Medusa for some really heavy hitting power?

Well, I started with this, but phased it out. It didn't seem like they were really doing all that much, with the exception of the colossus, whose role is now more than taken care of by all those stormies I'm bringing.

I'm going over my 6th ed games so far, and I'm having a hard time seeing why artillery would be better than what I have now already.

Biophysical wrote:I think this list highlights another weakness of a vehicle-free list in 6th edition: The prevalence of Night Fight. All Guard vehicles come with searchlights free

Hmm, this is certainly true.

Biophysical wrote:When you're paying for 4+ armor, I'm not comfortable paying for better cover, also

I made a lot of use out of carapace this game, but I don't know if I'm quite ready to abandon it just yet. There are Ap4 weapons out there, and I still want something with interceptor. If either one of those wind up not being such a big deal, then yeah, I'll probably drop it.

Aleinikov wrote:
Thanks for the report, this is a great read.
HWS have the advantage that you can spam them in extreme quantities. I am tempted to try the 15 HWS list with AGL. 15 targets is just way too many for an opponent to target, and those that do get shot at will go to ground for the 2+ cover. Just not sure how to fill out such a list to have enough mobility.

^This, if you are being blasted by fliers then you need to snap fire anyway against them so going to ground for a 2++ each turn is infinitely better the an exterminator. Especially since you can order BiD and receive twin linking. Also remember that night fight isn't random any longer and necrons have a short range, FoMT is a great order for this as well as search lights. But I will agree this isn't a great solution, as you have addressed it has logistical issues immediately. I think we are getting closer to that horizon, this journey can't go much further I fear.

Again I feel like you are Knee capping yourself with these restrictions though. The best AA in the guard book is Vendettas, the best elite unit hunter....Vendettas...mobility...durability, they have it all or the cheaper Valkyrie can bring whats missing. They have arguably the best "FTB ratio" in the guard book. AV 12 fliers are insanely difficult to deal with and grav chute insertion is redonculously fun to use and surprisingly affective. I know you want to vet and acid test all pure foot builds but honestly whatever 5th left alive, 6th killed. I think the best and most entertaining guard armies are hybrid anyway. What is turning you off about transports out of curiosity? Is it spamming them? Because that's a choice not a rule. Two chimers and one vendetta and I think you will make your army much more potent, and by no means is it bandwagoning, those are super fun units to field. You own the chimera chasis, you just need one flier, I am sure you can scratch build a unique foleran one as well. Anyway, rant over. I am having fun running this exercise but I feel the solution has been forced on us this edition and it was no miscalculation.

I, like Ailaros, have mightily resisted jumping onto the Valkyrie bandwagon for years now. I really hope I won't have to buy into them just to remain competitive. Though I run a hybrid list already so maybe I'm okay ...

 NWansbutter wrote:
I, like Ailaros, have mightily resisted jumping onto the Valkyrie bandwagon for years now. I really hope I won't have to buy into them just to remain competitive. Though I run a hybrid list already so maybe I'm okay ...

I was fortunate to win my first in a tournament and pick up two more for 40 each on the web. that said I have only fielded all three once and usually use one because I like to play my guard more casually due to logistical reasons (and I have owned them for almost 3 years now). When I play in tournies I prefer lower model count lists. That said I was in love with them immediately aside from cost, they look boss, are incredibly fun to use and unless you spam them they aren't over powered IMO. Now in 6th, I feel that due to the density of necron, marine and rival guard armies all using fliers, that it is smart to field at least one preferably two to fight off other fliers.

To justify it as a foot guard player I always just imagined it as a separate battle going on for air superiority while ground forces fought, and took collateral damage. Just try to think of a 1850 game really being 1500 normal and 350 as a tax for a simultaneous air game. Otherwise just bring two lists and play all foot unless they have the fliers.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 NWansbutter wrote:
I, like Ailaros, have mightily resisted jumping onto the Valkyrie bandwagon for years now. I really hope I won't have to buy into them just to remain competitive. Though I run a hybrid list already so maybe I'm okay ...

I was fortunate to win my first in a tournament and pick up two more for 40 each on the web. that said I have only fielded all three once and usually use one because I like to play my guard more casually due to logistical reasons (and I have owned them for almost 3 years now). When I play in tournies I prefer lower model count lists. That said I was in love with them immediately aside from cost, they look boss, are incredibly fun to use and unless you spam them they aren't over powered IMO. Now in 6th, I feel that due to the density of necron, marine and rival guard armies all using fliers, that it is smart to field at least one preferably two to fight off other fliers.

To justify it as a foot guard player I always just imagined it as a separate battle going on for air superiority while ground forces fought, and took collateral damage. Just try to think of a 1850 game really being 1500 normal and 350 as a tax for a simultaneous air game. Otherwise just bring two lists and play all foot unless they have the fliers.

Air superiority has been determining the course of wars for the last 90 years so it's not much of a stretch to imagine that it would still be important in 38000 years.

I think a lot of us are annoyed that we have to buy flyers where before you could get by without having any. Now, if you don't bring your own flyers you are starting in a hole.

I am now resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to get a few to put into my CSM army. I suppose there is always landraider spam too. Even lascannons have trouble against those bad boys.

I just object to the "flavour of the month" feel to the Valkyries and how so many people jumped on that bandwagon (same reason why I refuse, on principle, to employ Manticores in my army). The models are great looking, though, and I've been long tempted to paint one up in inquisitorial colours and have my inquisitorial storm troopers dive out the back as it zooms across the field.

What's better for anti air? The Vendetta or the Valkyrie?

Vendetta by a country mile...

And i'd hardly call it a "bandwagon".

One thing about Necron vehicles is that their Quantum Shielding only works on front and side facings.

All your Vets and Stormies have Krak grenades.

All close combat attacks against vehicles hit rear armor.

Thus, you're hitting those skimmers on 3+ and glancing on 4+ with all 90 of your guardsmen of various flavors. This won't help you against the flyers, of course, but against the skimmers it definitely will.

And, of course, you can throw a Krak grenade during the shooting phase as well, when trying to hammer down those CCBs. S6 AP3 is nothing to sneeze at, and definitely beats out a lasgun shot in most situations.

I think the biggest factor for you might be the dice, though. Have you looked at: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-quest-for-holy-grail-average.html Turns out that most of the rounded edge cheap mini dice roll significantly more 1s than they ought to.

Definitely seems to reflect your experience...