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Question:

If a Overlord in a CCB charges a unit, does the unit have to assault the Overlord or can they choose to assault the Barge instead (hitting on rear armor because it is a vehicle)?

They can choose to hit both.

Can you post page number of the rule that the chariot can be hit? I read only the rider can be hit in CC.

Look for the chariot rules.

Chariots, p82, under the heading 'Fighting from a Chariot'.

It says that all models in base contact with the chariot are also considered to be in contact with the rider.

 amrogers3 wrote:
Can you post page number of the rule that the chariot can be hit? I read only the rider can be hit in CC.

The chariot is a vehicle. The rules for assaulting vehicles are on pg 76.

The chariot rules state the rider is considered to be in BTB and hits are resolved against him. The chariot rules do not state the chariot is considered to be in BTB. Therefore, all hits are resolved against the rider.

 amrogers3 wrote:
The chariot rules state the rider is considered to be in BTB and hits are resolved against him. The chariot rules do not state the chariot is considered to be in BTB. Therefore, all hits are resolved against the rider.

The Chariot doesn't need to be considered in base-to-base, because it actually is in base-to-base.

 amrogers3 wrote:
The chariot rules state the rider is considered to be in BTB and hits are resolved against him. The chariot rules do not state the chariot is considered to be in BTB. Therefore, all hits are resolved against the rider.

Firstly you are declaring a charge against the vehicle. Like any other transport you cannot charge the embarked character. The chariot rules however, give permission for the embarked character to attack and be attacked by the chargers. As you stated you are in BTB with the rider. In this case you treat it like any other multicombat and assign attacks with your models based on how you want them to go.

Fragile wrote:
Firstly you are declaring a charge against the vehicle. Like any other transport you cannot charge the embarked character. The chariot rules however, give permission for the embarked character to attack and be attacked by the chargers. As you stated you are in BTB with the rider. In this case you treat it like any other multicombat and assign attacks with your models based on how you want them to go.

It is not considered a transport. It is a special type of vehicle just like the walker is a special type of vehicle and it has it's own rules. I do not see anywhere in the rules for chariots that the chariot can be assaulted. I believe the only way the chariot can be assaulted is if the driver is killed.

Damn GW and their gakky rules writing.

 amrogers3 wrote:
It is not considered a transport. It is a special type of vehicle just like the walker is a special type of vehicle and it has it's own rules. I do not see anywhere in the rules for chariots that the chariot can be assaulted. I believe the only way the chariot can be assaulted is if the driver is killed.

Damn GW and their gakky rules writing.

Except for those pesky transport rules. Page 82, bold, just under "Chariots"

The chariot IS a vehicle and thus can be attacked in close combat. Nothing in the chariot rules overrides this.

 amrogers3 wrote:
It is not considered a transport. It is a special type of vehicle just like the walker is a special type of vehicle and it has it's own rules. I do not see anywhere in the rules for chariots that the chariot can be assaulted. I believe the only way the chariot can be assaulted is if the driver is killed.

Damn GW and their gakky rules writing.

in the Fighting from a chariot rules section note this sentence.
"Note that, as a vehicle , the chariot ..."

Also notice under Crew
", can never be targeted seperately from the vehicle,"

I understand these are just parts of their appropriate rules, however it tells us that the Chariot is a vehicle without giving us special rules to assault it, we must use the standard rules for assaulting vehicles.

 amrogers3 wrote:
It is not considered a transport. It is a special type of vehicle just like the walker is a special type of vehicle and it has it's own rules. I do not see anywhere in the rules for chariots that the chariot can be assaulted. I believe the only way the chariot can be assaulted is if the driver is killed.

Damn GW and their gakky rules writing.

i think in chariot section it says shooting attacks must be resolved at chariot, but melee attacks MAY be directed at rider ? Not positive, don't have book on me.


In any case, since there is no definitive rule on it, wouldn't you think logically that it would go to the parent rule (being assaulting multiple models you are in base contact with? seeing as the models in question are considered in base to base with the vehicle and the lord?) If that is the case, they should be able to allocate attacks to the chariot or the rider right?

I

 amrogers3 wrote:
It is not considered a transport. It is a special type of vehicle just like the walker is a special type of vehicle and it has it's own rules. I do not see anywhere in the rules for chariots that the chariot can be assaulted. I believe the only way the chariot can be assaulted is if the driver is killed.

Not a transport?

From Chaos Update

Hellflayer: Vehicle (Chariot, Fast, Open-Topped)
Transport Capacity: 1 (Exalted Alluress only)

From Codex Necrons

Unit Type: Vehicle (Chariot, Fast, Open-Topped, Skimmer)
Transport Capacity: The Catacomb Command Barge can carry one Independent Character

It's defiantly a transport. And it's defiantly a vehicle.
As a vehicle it can be assaulted just like any other vehicle. Only difference is the rider can be hit too.

If there was one change I could make it would be that chariots fight CC with the WS of their rider. You know, to simulate the rider fending off the attackers and protecting his sweet pimped ride.

*Edit*
Sorry, I suppose I should say they should be considered as WS (Riders') for the purposes of being in assault.

 amrogers3 wrote:
The chariot rules state the rider is considered to be in BTB and hits are resolved against him.

Underlined portion is fabrication made up by you. There are no rules whatsover that state this. Rules state that rider can be attacked, not that he must be attacked. Major difference.

 amrogers3 wrote:
The chariot rules do not state the chariot is considered to be in BTB. Therefore, all hits are resolved against the rider.

You clearly haven't read the rules. Models that are in base contact with Chariot obviously are in base contact with Chariot. We don't need no special rules to say it. Also reinforced by the Chariot rules:
"the rider of the Chariot is treated as being in base contact with all enemy models that are themselves in contact with the Chariot." (Page 82)
If those models were in fact treated as not being in base contact with the Chariot, as you falsely claim, that would mean that rider wouldn't be in base contact either.

No, the rules are very clear. Models in base contact with Chariot can always attack the Chariot in CC. If the Chariot has a rider, you can also choose to attack the rider.

Note: Rider can never get +1 attack from Charging, as it is the Chariot that charges, not the rider. This might get FAQ'd though.

When assaulting a unit of mixed saves (such as terminators with LCs and TH/SS) the player owning those models allocates such saves on the model he wants until it dies, and then moves on.

Surely as in this instance you can't allocate saves since you are in contact with a vehicle and a character, hence the player owning the chariot and character can allocate said hits to either the chariot or the rider?

xStuuy wrote:
When assaulting a unit of mixed saves (such as terminators with LCs and TH/SS) the player owning those models allocates such saves on the model he wants until it dies, and then moves on.

That's a unit of same saves if they aren't being hit by AP2 or 1 weapons.

Doesn't really have any bearing on your question, just wanted to point that out.

xStuuy wrote:
Surely as in this instance you can't allocate saves since you are in contact with a vehicle and a character, hence the player owning the chariot and character can allocate said hits to either the chariot or the rider?

No because the rules say so. And if it did then then any excess damage done to one would spill over to the other which would be impossible as one has wounds and the other hull points.

xStuuy wrote:
When assaulting a unit of mixed saves (such as terminators with LCs and TH/SS) the player owning those models allocates such saves on the model he wants until it dies, and then moves on.

Surely as in this instance you can't allocate saves since you are in contact with a vehicle and a character, hence the player owning the chariot and character can allocate said hits to either the chariot or the rider?

The chariot and character are NOT the same unit. Thus you follow the rules for allocating attacks between units

Oh okay, my apologies. Serves me right trying to make my codex better really doesn't it.

xStuuy wrote:
Oh okay, my apologies. Serves me right trying to make my codex better really doesn't it.

That's not it at all, you were just treating it as a mixed save unit when it really should be treated more like a multi-assault.

Think about this logically. You're saying that the rider CANNOT be hit, but CAN hit? Why would that be fair?

Because it is a chariot, it has specific rules overriding the rules of a vehicle. You designate targets, to the vehicle, then to the rider.

Simple.