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Edit - It has been pointed out to me that the glancing hit from gets hot was never a just-plain-vanilla hit, thus this whole line of thought may not apply.


OP - Can a Stormraven Gunship with a Plasma Cannon suffer a glancing hit from Get's Hot (p37) while it is Zooming? (Hard to hit p81, Snap Shot p13)

The argument against Njal and/or Imotekh's special rules/game effects being allowed to hit zooming flyers seems to have boiled down to "only snap shots and special rules with specific permission to hit zooming flyers may do so." Specifically from the Snap Shot faq entry...

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

I was curious if this logic was applicable to other special rules that generated hits due to game effects. The Ork Blitza-Bommer discussion didn't go very far, but that is fairly obscure and not everyone has the White Dwarf issue with the rules in it. So I went looking for a situation that more people could give their opinion on.

Everyone with a 6th ed rulebook has a copy of the relevant rules for this question. What do you think?

It's not a shooting attack (or actually an attack at all) so the flyer suffers it like any other vehicle.

It's not an attack, you just suffer damage. Zooming doesn't stop OM either.

I love how the poll choices attempt to sway the answer.

I guess someone doesn't know when to stop. First the Ork bomber damaging itself, now this. Oh well...

To the point, suffering damage because of Gets Hot doesn't classify as an attack. So flyers get no such immunity. I refuse to answer the poll because, as Fragile says, the options are biased.

copper.talos wrote:I guess someone doesn't know when to stop. First the Ork bomber damaging itself, now this. Oh well...

I try to ask questions from different points of view in a discussion until I find an understanding that lets me correctly predict what to anticipate from future applications of what is being discussed . How should I interpret your persistence?

Fragile wrote:I love how the poll choices attempt to sway the answer.

copper.talos wrote:I refuse to answer the poll because, as Fragile says, the options are biased.

The poll choices reflect the ridiculousness of the question. Of course Gets Hot hits a Zooming Flyer. I try to be unbiased, but I agree it is a dumb question, hence dumb answers.

More to the point, why did I ask this dumb question. It seemed like a good question to ask when I'm told that nothing can hit a zooming flyer except snap shots and specific permission due to a faq entry on snap shots.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

Again, Hard to Hit (p81) hasn't changed.

I'm pretty sure gets hot doesn't say it suffers a hit, just that if affected by gets hot, roll a d6, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a hull point.

foolishmortal wrote:
I'm told that nothing can hit a zooming flyer except snap shots and specific permission due to a faq entry on snap shots.

No one told you this, you are making things up in a desperate attempt to back up your erroneous arguments on LotS vs Flyers. Everyone has told you that no ATTACK can hit a zooming flyer except snap shots and abilities with specific permission. An attack is by definition something an opponent does that damages your units. Suffering damage because of your own wargear doesn't classify as an attack. And fyi posting polls everyday won't change anything.

 Krellnus wrote:
I'm pretty sure gets hot doesn't say it suffers a hit, just that if affected by gets hot, roll a d6, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a hull point.

Page 37 is pretty clear. "a vehicle instead suffers a glancing hit on a further roll of a 1, 2, or 3."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

copper.talos wrote:

foolishmortal wrote:
I'm told that nothing can hit a zooming flyer except snap shots and specific permission due to a faq entry on snap shots.

No one told you this, you are making things up in a desperate attempt to back up your erroneous arguments on LotS vs Flyers. Everyone has told you that no ATTACK can hit a zooming flyer except snap shots and abilities with specific permission. An attack is by definition something an opponent does that damages your units. Suffering damage because of your own wargear doesn't classify as an attack. And fyi posting polls everyday won't change anything.

These are from page 11 of the Imotekh LotS vs Zooming Flyers discussion http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300/480037.page
At the time of this posting, it is the most top page in the discussion and you have posted on page 11 after DeathReaper's statements

DeathReaper wrote:the fact is that "Only snap shots can hit Zooming Flyers..."

So if it is not a snap shot, then it can not hit a zooming flyer (Unless it has specific permission to do so).

DeathReaper wrote:Basically it boils down to this:

foolishmortal wrote:
4)LotS is not a shooting attack.

Since this is true.

Rule Book FAQ wrote:A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers"

And this is true.

Then this conclusion is true:

You can not affect a Zooming flyer with the LotS rule, since the LotS rule is not a shooting attack, and therefore can not make snap shots, which is the only thing that can hit a Zooming Flyer (without other specific permission (reference Vector Strike)).

p9

 undertow wrote:
You check two things to see if you an attack or ability can hit a flyer. Is it a Snap Shot, and if not, does it have specific permission to hit flyers. If they answer to both of those questions is no, then you cannot hit flyers.

p5

Fragile wrote:
A very general question was asked... How does a variety of things.... including "any attack" interact with Flyers. The answer was a simple " Only snap shots can hit Flyers....."

If you have any more lies, ad hominem attacks, or questioning of my motivations, I kindly ask you yo PM them to me. If I have made a mistake, I will try to correct it, but this is distracting from the conversation. Thank you.

Edit - added quotes from Fragile and undertow to the list. I didn't want DeathReaper to feel like I was singling him out. I accidentally stuck my foot in his mouth the other day and trying not to offend him again. Disagree with, sure. But offend? No.

Ah, removing things from context, always a good way to argue....

Note that hit and glancing hit are different things. Gets Hot is not an attack in any way.

And yes, removing statements from context is a great way to attempt to make a point.

Edited OP to mention that the glancing hit from gets hot was never a just-plain-vanilla hit, thus this whole line of thought may not apply. Thank you

foolishmortal wrote:
Edited OP to mention that the glancing hit from gets hot was never a just-plain-vanilla hit, thus this whole line of thought may not apply. Thank you

Does not apply. There's no "may" involved.
Really? Even after I proved you wrong?

I gotta say this is the worst thread yet.

Get's hot is a glancing hit suffered by the vehicle on a 1-3.
Where in the vehicle rules does it prevent a model suffering a glancing hit if it is a flyer? Nowhere. There is no rolls to hit here cos there is no attack. This is a mechanic for how unstable plasma etc are to use. My stormraven want's to drop ap 2 templates then I need to take the risk the same way as a leman rus with plasma cannon sponsons.