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Well we've had lots miniature and miniature boardgame kickstarters, the terrain kickstarters are starting to show up

Now the painters are getting in on the act

Blue Table Painting's "Turbo Army" Kickstarter

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751320573/blue-table-paintings-turbo-army-kickstarter?ref=live

I've not used them, but they seem to be reasonably well regarded, and located in the USA for those who worry about buying painting services from 'overseas'

NOTE: If you don't see a pledge that suits you they will make a custom one for you, so contact them

Why exactly does this campaign belong on Kickstarter? If i read the KS page right they're not really funding anything and are just using Kickstarter for publicity to offer their usual painting services.

Im also wondering if this campaign might be a breach of the KS guidelines, the below blurb is written in the Prohibited content section of the guideline.

Rewards not directly produced by the project or its creator (no offering things from the garage, repackaged existing products, weekends at the resort, etc)

While they might be painting the miniatures, the fact that they're just buying existing models from various manufacturers to use as rewards might be a problem for them.

So, they will be buying stock to paint in order to sell?

'One of every faction'.

Pledgers will just be subsidising stock ordering then?

This does seem to be a violation of Kickstarter guidelines.

How is "help us buy stock, so we can paint them later and sell them for profit" any different than the prohibited "help me buy a camera, so that I can take pictures and sell them for profit"?

And the rewards are all things that already exist, or versions of services that already exist. I can spend $350 to have them paint me an infinity starter set? How is that any different from what they are doing already?

Vote with your wallet.

Not only should people vote with their wallet, if they feel this is in violation of the terms of Kickstarter, they should report it.

I guess it could well violate the T&C

which is surprising as KS check projects before they can go live. Why did they let it start in the first place?

Pretty full of themselves, arn't they?


I'm Kickstartered out, thank you very much.

I have seen their work first hand. A 2000$ project and it was horrible. yes..they are indeed full of themselves and will be voting with my wallet indeed.

Full of themselves? Doesn't even compare to this one

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/575109064/penny-arcade-sells-out

Don't think Kickstarter is trying to enforce much. Hell, just look at Penny Arcades 500 Dollar Pledge Level (which sold out) and Blue Table is looking very reasonable again

I just read the Kickstarter guidelines, and I don't get peoples complaint.

BTP stated a clear goal with an end game. Acquire the resources to open a new branch of sales for the company. It's not under any of the prohibited causes.

Also as far as I can tell, this is an innovative idea. Does any other business out there have entire armies on hand that are built and painted, and ready for immediate shipping?

djones520 wrote:
I just read the Kickstarter guidelines, and I don't get peoples complaint.

BTP stated a clear goal with an end game. Acquire the resources to open a new branch of sales for the company. It's not under any of the prohibited causes.

Per Kickstarter:

1) Funding for projects only.

A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.

I honestly think that a Kickstarter to purchase stock for a new branch does not qualify as making a work of art, or a book, or an album, or a new product. It is a "fund my life" project, and not really any different than a "Kickstarter to buy stock to open my own game store" would be.

They're not starting a business. A new business model maybe. BTP is a long and well established business, miniature painting wise at least.

Honestly, I don't see it as being any differant then a company saying "fund my computer game development". There's been a ton of those. All it's doing is asking people to throw money at them so they can spit out a project to make money off of. How is this differant?

 d-usa wrote:

djones520 wrote:
I just read the Kickstarter guidelines, and I don't get peoples complaint.

BTP stated a clear goal with an end game. Acquire the resources to open a new branch of sales for the company. It's not under any of the prohibited causes.

Per Kickstarter:

1) Funding for projects only.

A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.

I honestly think that a Kickstarter to purchase stock for a new branch does not qualify as making a work of art, or a book, or an album, or a new product. It is a "fund my life" project, and not really any different than a "Kickstarter to buy stock to open my own game store" would be.

Yeah. But you know... that paragraph is in the "guidelines", not the terms of service.

And if taken literally, it sure as hell would've also disqualified, for example, Reaper Bones. Or DreadBall. Or Sedition Wars. They are all "start/expand business" Kickstarters. None of their stuff is intended to "end" with the Kickstarter. They all want to keep selling/expanding that.

Where is the difference between a miniature painting company kickstarting "to paint more miniatures" and a miniature making company like Reaper kickstarting "to make more miniatures"?

 Zweischneid wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

djones520 wrote:
I just read the Kickstarter guidelines, and I don't get peoples complaint.

BTP stated a clear goal with an end game. Acquire the resources to open a new branch of sales for the company. It's not under any of the prohibited causes.

Per Kickstarter:

1) Funding for projects only.

A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.

I honestly think that a Kickstarter to purchase stock for a new branch does not qualify as making a work of art, or a book, or an album, or a new product. It is a "fund my life" project, and not really any different than a "Kickstarter to buy stock to open my own game store" would be.

Yeah. But you know... that paragraph is in the "guidelines", not the terms of service.

And if taken literally, it sure as hell would've also disqualified, for example, Reaper Bones. Or DreadBall. Or Sedition Wars. They are all "start/expand business" Kickstarters. None of their stuff is intended to "end" with the Kickstarter. They all want to keep selling/expanding that.

Where is the difference between a painting company kickstarting "to paint more" and a miniature company like Reaper kickstarting "to make more miniatures"?

But all of them resulted in a finished product: new games, actual new models, etc.

That is different than "help us buy stock", at least that is how it appears to me.

But I will quit taking this thread OT.

 d-usa wrote:


But all of them resulted in a finished product: new games, actual new models, etc.

That is different than "help us buy stock", at least that is how it appears to me.

But I will quit taking this thread OT.

How so? Blue Table inputs miniatures and outputs painted miniatures. Reaper/Mantic/CMON inputs molds, plastic, design services and outputs unpainted miniatures.

Both fatten up their production with Kickstarter. Other than that, there's no difference I can see, other than Blue Table sitting behind Reaper in the value chain.

If you exclude business, you'd have to exclude both. If you include businesses, you have to include both.

 Zweischneid wrote:
And if taken literally, it sure as hell would've also disqualified, for example, Reaper Bones. Or DreadBall. Or Sedition Wars. They are all "start/expand business" Kickstarters. None of their stuff is intended to "end" with the Kickstarter. They all want to keep selling/expanding that.

Where is the difference between a miniature painting company kickstarting "to paint more miniatures" and a miniature making company like Reaper kickstarting "to make more miniatures"?

how about 'substantial start-up costs'?

there's actually a substantial number of models sales required for the other projects mentioned. this? not so much.
I like how they get around that with their 'having whole armies up for sale' pitch, though. it's cute. I see how this one is in the very deep, dark zone of the gray area, rather than just flat-out outside the guidelines.
but it's a long way from as clearly KS worthy as any of the other projects you mentioned.

either way, I don't mind - just won't be funding this

If it funds, Kickstarter gets a cut. 'nuff said.

Bolognesus wrote:


how about 'substantial start-up costs'?

"substantial start-up costs' are not and never were a Kickstarter criteria however. Can't just make those up on the fly.

The Kickstarter guidelines/criteria/etc.. are (vaguely) (a) not a business (b) self-contained project and (c) "creativity".

What "start-up costs" were involved in thePenny Arcades Kickstarter? That literally was a Kickstarter to just pay their utility bills and running costs without ads. It passed the Kickstarter criteria by being something "creative" (i.e. a webcomic).

There's plenty of Kickstarters about "I'll make handmade puppets" or "I'll make colourful, hand-painted flower-pots". It's whole pitch is to get "art-projects" like that on board.

Wow only $900 to get them to "colour in "a pic of my favoured model with photoshop! Bargin! !!!

Yeah. I enjoy their videos, but I'd rather paint my own for the money they ask for the quality they produce.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Full of themselves? Doesn't even compare to this one

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/575109064/penny-arcade-sells-out

Don't think Kickstarter is trying to enforce much. Hell, just look at Penny Arcades 500 Dollar Pledge Level (which sold out) and Blue Table is looking very reasonable again

How many millions of dollars have Blue Table Painting raised for children's charities?

 plastictrees wrote:


How many millions of dollars have Blue Table Painting raised for children's charities?

What's that got to do with Kickstarter Guidelines? Did you know that Charity is not allowed on Kickstarter?

Describing penny arcade as being full of themselves tells me that you don't know anything about penny arcade.

Who gives a gak about Kickstarter guidelines? They'll remove it or they won't and people will pledge or they won't.
I vote we create a new forum, not for kickstarters but for people to whine about kickstarters in.

I vote to create a forum where people who talk about topics won't talk about topics...

For what they are charging I would expect more than base coated and dipped which is their usual standard. I can put the fifty foot barge pole away, I won't be touching it.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Bolognesus wrote:


how about 'substantial start-up costs'?

"substantial start-up costs' are not and never were a Kickstarter criteria however. Can't just make those up on the fly.

rather disingenuous, don't you think? it's part of the 'project' thing KS is made for, as opposed to just buying stock for a business. *sigh*

 plastictrees wrote:
Describing penny arcade as being full of themselves tells me that you don't know anything about penny arcade.

They sounded pretty full of themselves during that whole "sorry you can't laugh at rape jokes" debacle. Fortunately, that didn't leave a lasting, negative impression for anyone, though, right?

PS: I'm pretty sure Mantic can tell you what professional, stand up guys those Penny Arcade dudes are.

 plastictrees wrote:
Describing penny arcade as being full of themselves tells me that you don't know anything about penny arcade.

Who gives a gak about Kickstarter guidelines? They'll remove it or they won't and people will pledge or they won't.
I vote we create a new forum, not for kickstarters but for people to whine about kickstarters in.

Hey. It's good to see Penny Arcade still has fans. More power to you.

But if you think I am the only one questioning the gak these guys practice, you're living in denial.

http://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/7909-worst-kickstarter-ever/

 Zweischneid wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Describing penny arcade as being full of themselves tells me that you don't know anything about penny arcade.

Who gives a gak about Kickstarter guidelines? They'll remove it or they won't and people will pledge or they won't.
I vote we create a new forum, not for kickstarters but for people to whine about kickstarters in.

Hey. It's good to see Penny Arcade still has fans. More power to you.

But if you think I am the only one questioning the gak these guys practice, you're living in denial.

http://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/7909-worst-kickstarter-ever/

Haha, yes, I'm one of the handful of people that helps Penny Arcade struggle along...

Buy "gak they practice" you mean, "clearly declare Kickstarter pledge levels that people can choose to pay for or not to pay for"? That sort of gak? Are you suggesting that they coerce people in to giving them money? Did they lie about what those pledges entailed?

"I wouldn't pay for that", is not the same as "That's a rip-off". Get a fething grip.

In effort to get back on topic, don't pledge, do pledge, or contact Kickstarter with your concerns.