Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, my FLGS's monthly 1850 pt Rogue Trader Tournament is coming up this Saturday, and I'm bringing a strange, yet intriguingly fun list. The army has no vehicles, no terminators - all 3+ save Marines! (except the Captain, he has Artificer Armor). I was able to cram 76 Infantry models into this army, with a Variety of Tactical Options, etc. The idea was to build the army like a company is organized - Lots of Tactical Marines, some Devastators, Assault Marines, etc. Is any part of the army crazy awesome amazing cheese? No, but I have lots of Marine bodies, a whopping 1020 points of my army is scoring (five 10 man Tactical Squads, with options), As well as bringing a Command Squad, 2 Devastator Squads, and a full Assault Squad.

I realize that the Devastators and Assault Marines aren't that flashy or awesome for their points; I just wanted to "return to the basics" for marines and see what good ol' marines would be able to do without too many flashy units. No special characters, no Sternguard, no Dreadnaughts, no Terminators, no Flyers, etc. This way, I have no worries about vehicles or hull points, and my opponent's Anti-Air is useless. I know it will be difficult to be competitive, but I want to know everyones thoughts anyways, what will hammer this list, what are it's strengths/weaknesses vs different armies, etc.

***********************************************************************************************************
Space Marines - 1850 pts
***********************************************************************************************************
155 - Captain "Gabriel Lucius" - Power Sword, Power Axe, Artificer Armor, Digital Weapons
***Warlord***
130 - Command Squad - 1 Apothecary, x1 Company Standard, x5 Boltpistol/Chainsword

190 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun
*******Sargeant "Jacob" - Combi-Plasma, Bolt Pistol
210 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Multi Melta, Melta Gun
*******Sergeant "Felix" - Power Axe, Plasma Pistol
190 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Flamer
*******Sergeant "Gaius" - Power Axe, Bolt Pistol
220 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Plasma Gun
*******Sergeant "Leo" - Power Sword, Plasma Pistol
210 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Flamer
*******Sergeant "Titus" - Power Sword, Plasma Pistol

150 - 5 Devastators - x4 Missile Launchers
*******Sargeant "Matias" - Bolter, Bolt Pistol
170 - 5 Devastators - x2 Plasma Cannon, x2 Heavy Bolter
*******Sargeant "Niklas" - Bolter, Bolt Pistol

225 - 10 Assault Marines - x2 Flamers
*******Sargeant "Samuel" - Power Axe
***********************************************************************************************************
***Edited once for Captain's Entry - he has Power Sword/Power Axe, not Power Weapon/Plasma Pistol)

First off; I think it's great that you've put in character names! It's nice to see some real customisation!
I like them myself but plasma pistols are REALLY pricey for what they do! Possibly only take one for your most senior sergeant. Still fluffy but it frees up some points.
I'd run 2 squads with a Heavy Bolter + Flamer (for hordes) and 3 with Lascannon + Melta (Anti-tank) I feel it'd add a bit more synergy to the list, it seems a bit all over the place as it stands.

Love the devastator load-outs. Have you considered squeezing in a fortification with something that has Skyfire? A Chaos Heldrake could run riot with your infantry!

If I were you, I'd make your assault marines THE anti-armour squad. Get 2 meltas and a melta bomb and liquify some tanks. Get them in fast and blow stuff up! With only 10 men, I'd me concerned putting them up against a blob of 30 or so Orks or the like.

The HQ is great. Pricey, yes. Too pricey? Yes! But it's nice having that elite squad in your army!

Have you considered drop pods?

Unfortunately, C:SM Assault Squads can only take Flamers or Plasma Pistols, so I went with anti hoarde, as that's what CCW/Pistol marines are good at, anyways. Plus, if played right they can get an extra Hammer of Wrath attack, too. I figured the Assault Squad would play buddy-buddy a little with the Command Squad, as they're both more assaulty.

I agree with the plasma pistols, but with the new 6's to hit for characters= allocated hit by me, I can snipe out special weapons, characters etc with my sergeants so it's not so bad.

I agree with the Anti Infantry/Anti Armor focused squads, Right now it was making the most of my painted models I have. I have about 10 models to finish painting in one week, and just want my army fully painted. I might see if I can clean it up a little bit, but I like bringing lots of Lascannons on the Tactical Squads as they only cost 10 points a piece.

I think this list is extremely competitive. Of course, I play orks (and Salamanders). Come to think of it... Devs w/ Multimeltas. Tacs w/ flamers and Multimeltas. Hmmm. A second green tide might be in my future.

Imagine maxing out an infantry list w heat weapons and force multiplying with w Vulkan.

Ok. I'm getting excited.

It seems a waste to have an axe on your captain, I'd just go with the sword. Are you planning on running every turn? If not, some plasma guns in the command squad would let you shoot as you advance. If you are planning on running to CC as fast as possible, why not field the company champion? The same 15 points that gives a tac sarge a power weapon gets the champ the same weapon, and a point of WS and a combat shield.

I would drop most/all of your sergeant upgrades. I'd rather see full 10 man dev squads. Without tanks to draw fire, they are going to be focused on first, and blown to chunks. Which tacs are planning on advancing, which are combat squadding? I'd rather have HB/F and LC/P then the flamer in the LC squad.

I'd swap weapons around on the Dev squads. 2xML, 2xHB for one and 2xML, 2xPC for the other. And try to get more bodies, particularly for the PC squad.

I personally prefer a 5 man assault squad lead by a chaplain. From a organization standpoint, don't forget that each company has their own chaplain, unlike librarians and techmarnies who are attached from the chapter. So he'd be fine from a fluff POV.

 Nevelon wrote:
It seems a waste to have an axe on your captain, I'd just go with the sword. Are you planning on running every turn? If not, some plasma guns in the command squad would let you shoot as you advance. If you are planning on running to CC as fast as possible, why not field the company champion? The same 15 points that gives a tac sarge a power weapon gets the champ the same weapon, and a point of WS and a combat shield.

I would drop most/all of your sergeant upgrades. I'd rather see full 10 man dev squads. Without tanks to draw fire, they are going to be focused on first, and blown to chunks. Which tacs are planning on advancing, which are combat squadding? I'd rather have HB/F and LC/P then the flamer in the LC squad.

I'd swap weapons around on the Dev squads. 2xML, 2xHB for one and 2xML, 2xPC for the other. And try to get more bodies, particularly for the PC squad.

I personally prefer a 5 man assault squad lead by a chaplain. From a organization standpoint, don't forget that each company has their own chaplain, unlike librarians and techmarnies who are attached from the chapter. So he'd be fine from a fluff POV.

Every time I ran my captain with ONLY a Powersword, he always ended up in CC with a 2+ armor save guy, and was tarpitted. The 2 CC weapons basically guarantees him an extra attack, with the option of whichever is better for the situation. I went for a CC oriented, inexpensive command squad because they get VERY expensive fast, I've I've ran 4 Plasma guns with Combi plasma on my captain, but that's 70 extra points! So for this list, probably not.

I too used to run a Chaplain leading an assault squad; they are a quite effective force multiplier. However, I really want to run my Captain, and I've recently shifted my perspective away from 2 HQ's to save points - let's face it, the effect the 2nd hq has usually isn't' quite worth the extra points investment.

***********************************************************************************************************
Space Marines - 1850 pts
***********************************************************************************************************
155 - Captain "Gabriel Lucius" - Power Sword, Power Axe, Artificer Armor, Digital Weapons
***Warlord***
130 - Command Squad - 1 Apothecary, x1 Company Standard, x5 Boltpistol/Chainsword

185 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Heavy Bolter, Flamer,
*******Sergeant "Gaius" - Power Axe, Bolt Pistol
210 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Multi Melta, Melta Gun
*******Sergeant "Felix" - Power Axe, Plasma Pistol
200 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Plasma Gun
*******Sargeant "Jacob" - Combi-Plasma, Bolt Pistol
220 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Plasma Gun
*******Sergeant "Leo" - Power Sword, Plasma Pistol
210 - 9 Tactical Marines - x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Flamer
*******Sergeant "Titus" - Power Sword, Plasma Pistol

150 - 5 Devastators - x4 Missile Launchers
*******Sargeant "Matias" - Bolter, Bolt Pistol
170 - 5 Devastators - x2 Plasma Cannon, x2 Heavy Bolter
*******Sargeant "Niklas" - Bolter, Bolt Pistol

225 - 10 Assault Marines - x2 Flamers
*******Sargeant "Samuel" - Power Axe
***********************************************************************************************************

I seriously see the point on the Tac Squad loadout, I can always switch around a special weapon or two to make the loadout work - I swapped the Plasma/Combi Plasma with the Flamer/PP/PW between the Heavy Bolter and one of the Lascannon squads to make it more synchronous (I usually shift around some special weapons to make points fit right when finishing my lists). Personally I just like taking Lascannons on the Tactical Squads because they only cost 10 points a piece, as opposed to 35 points a piece in Devastator squads. I see the Melta squad will advance, and the Lascannon/Flamer squad will likely combat squad and advance. Other than that, depending on deployment, the Plasma Squads will generally hang back while the Flamer/melta unit will advance up a flank probably, supporting the Command Squad and Assault Squad.

The last think I'd love to do is yes 10 man Devastator squads; however I'd need to shave 160 points off of my list. That's 1 whole Tactical Squad! I could see only having four tactical squads, but unfortunately I don't have enough Bolter Marines to give both devastator squads 10 men (otherwise yes Combat squading would be fun). If I could do that then yes I'd split and give each devastator squad 2 ML, however as it stands I'd rather be able to focus fire with different abilities.

These are all really good suggestions; I think I'll probably get another Tactical Squad box just to make 10 extra Devastator Bodies for the future, and try this list with 4 Tactical Squads and two 10-man Devastator squads. Other than that, I probably won't consider adding a chaplain unless my FLGS jumps back to 2000 pts again, though again then it's just tempting to have 5 Troop choices again.

So, the Tournament was interesting, my loadout was somewhat effective, it's hard to be all on foot when some opponents are all skimmer mechanized, or imperial guard gun lines, but overall I'm not dissatisfied with this list. I"ll be trying some variants to see what I like most. I retooled the list here - I like the Tactical Squad Loadouts, although for the devastators I'm unhappy - I got them up to 10 man strong, (86 bodies on the board!) but the weapons don't make as much sense. I can make one more Missile Launcher in place of the Heavy Bolter, if I want - that might be a good change. Other than that, I'm liking the look of this list, I'd rather have more units than more upgrades on units. Ideas?

130 Captain Power Sword, Power Axe
130 Command Squad Company Standard

170 9 Tactical Marines x7 Bolters, x1 Heavy Bolter, Flamer
Sargeant "Gaius" Bolter, Bolt Pistol
170 9 Tactical Marines x7 Bolters, x1 Heavy Bolter, Flamer
Sergeant "Felix" Bolter, Bolt Pistol
175 9 Tactical Marines x7 Bolters, x1 Multi Melta, Melta Gun
Sergeant "Titus" Bolter, Bolt Pistol
190 9 Tactical Marines x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Sergeant "Jacob" Bolter, Bolt Pistol
190 9 Tactical Marines x7 Bolters, x1 Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Sergeant "Leo" Bolter, Bolt Pistol

230 9 Devastators x3 Missile Launchers, x1 Heavy Bolter
Sargeant "Matias" Bolter, Bolt Pistol
250 9 Devastators x2 Plasma Cannon, x2 Missile Launchers
Sargeant "Niklas" Bolter, Bolt Pistol

215 10 Assault Marines x2 Flamers
Sargeant "Samuel" Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs

If you can manage to find 10 pts, run your captain with Claw + Fist ... it's basically a better sword + a better axe and you still got +1A
for the Devs, I would reduce the first one to 8 marines maybe with 4 ML, that would give you some points to tweak around

maybe some melta bombs around your sergeants, that could be a lifesaver if a big Land Raider rolls around

I'm thinking, 8 man 4ML Dev, Fist + Claw and Artificer on the Captain ... If I'm not mistaken, it would fit
In the same vein, I'd replace the Standard with a Champion (even though I would keep the standard miniature itself, just because it's cool !), you don't really need to be able to reroll morale checks and the +1 to result .... well a champion would probably give you 1 more wound in the fight

sorry, but you scared the out of me, as your dev sergeant names are the same as me and my brothers, other than that matias is missing a second t. other than tha, I can't imagine many armies being able to deal with the sheer number of marines!

TanKoL wrote:
If you can manage to find 10 pts, run your captain with Claw + Fist ... it's basically a better sword + a better axe and you still got +1A
for the Devs, I would reduce the first one to 8 marines maybe with 4 ML, that would give you some points to tweak around

maybe some melta bombs around your sergeants, that could be a lifesaver if a big Land Raider rolls around

I'm thinking, 8 man 4ML Dev, Fist + Claw and Artificer on the Captain ... If I'm not mistaken, it would fit
In the same vein, I'd replace the Standard with a Champion (even though I would keep the standard miniature itself, just because it's cool !), you don't really need to be able to reroll morale checks and the +1 to result .... well a champion would probably give you 1 more wound in the fight

The Lightning Claw/Power Fist combo on the Captain is a good idea, I'd thought of it before but didn't realize it was only 10 points more, I'll definitely keep that build in mind. I can see the point with not needing 10 Devastators, however having combat squad capabilities is too juicy not to take them in full 10 man groups, plus it feels more "Fluffy" to have a full 10-man squad, and keeps those special weapons alive.

Also, the Company Champion just seems underwhelming to me. He has ws5, but loses an attack as he has to carry that combat shield, I'd rather have a regular veteran with a Power Weapon (I'm a BIG fan of extra attacks). And, the Company Standard's effect is a really nice buff to the 86 footslogging marines on the board ... I really like re-rolling leadership tests, it makes everything a lot more reliable for tactics wise.

This list has been so min/maxed for the models I have I can't really see changing much of it here, but it's been a fun learning experience for what you can do with 1850 points! 86 marines is awesome to wield ... I really wanna build a 1 company army. Hmm.

Also, the Company Champion just seems underwhelming to me. He has ws5, but loses an attack as he has to carry that combat shield, I'd rather have a regular veteran with a Power Weapon

erm .... nope .... that's the whole point of the combat shield, it's useless, but at least you don't lose an attack

TanKoL wrote:
Also, the Company Champion just seems underwhelming to me. He has ws5, but loses an attack as he has to carry that combat shield, I'd rather have a regular veteran with a Power Weapon

erm .... nope .... that's the whole point of the combat shield, it's useless, but at least you don't lose an attack

Hmm ... (reads codex) ... I always assumed it took the place of the weapon, it seemed pretty lame to me. OK so maybe not so bad ... that makes it pretty awesome, it's true. Huh, too bad I just traded away both of my combat shields.