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Running shoota boyz with rokkits instead of big shootas because the people i play against pretty much focus their entire 750-1250pts listings (depending on what were playing) on that one big unit and whatever else they can squeeze in there. Aside from power klaws, i usually have nothing that can even hurt a 13armor vehicle unless i get stupid lucky. If not 13armor vehicles they have some elite with a crazy armor save that makes it almost as bad as 13armor.

How important you think a Nob upgrade would be with a shoota group + rokkits? Reason i ask is far as i know theyre restricted to sluggachoppa, big choppa, or PK as a weapon and while shootas arent worthless in melee, i have Rokkit launchas and till they take out the big vehicles i dont want them to get in trouble. Still worth the upgrade you think? He would have 'Eavy Armor, BP, and PK, which is kinda pricy for troops.

EDIT: Oh and their armies are hilarious when its objective mode since they have like 1 troop, 1 elite, and a big guy most the time. Doesnt matter if you cant kill something if you have more objectives haha.

To me, a nob with Power Klaw is mandatory in any squad of boys. It gives the squad some much needed anti-tank, and while rokkits can get the job done, they're unreliable (1 shot at bs2 isn't great).

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:
To me, a nob with Power Klaw is mandatory in any squad of boys.

This. Boss pole is handy too.

Klaws cant deal with air though, and sometimes they like to be a dick and have an entire airforced army with an HQ and 1 troop on the group lol.

That one is hit or miss for them, i won one because the guy failed at piloting and flew half his planes off the world and he had nothing but 10 crappy marines guarding his captain. My 60+ orks overran them easily and just waited for his last plane to failboat off the world or for my few big shootas to get lucky hits.

Power Klaw and Ard Armor is a must. The unit is still very good in close combat, and shootas, rokkit launchas, and big shootas are all assault weapons.

Always ok the nob, 30 ablative wound a is a lot to go through before him (hopefully).

shootas are assault weapons? i thought that was the benefit of sluggas was you could shoot AND assault with them? or is it the additional attack on the charge that makes them better for charging and nothing else?

Probably just going to keep the nob w/ klaw bp and eavy armor. I got 2 groups of 20boyz w/ 2rokkits and 1nob w/ above powers atm, probably going to either bump it to 30boyz or a third 20boyz group when i get my shipment of new boyz in. Thanks guys.

With the exception of artillery, ALL ork weapons are assault weapons.

Anyways, I don't know how mandatory it is. I mean, a nob klaw costs as much as a rokkit buggy and several in an army comes to a unit of deffkoptaz, with some TL rokkits or buzzsaws. If you're looking for anti-tank, I think I'd rather go for those instead. Plus, if it's vehicles you're worried about, those points could easily go towards a small lootaz or tankbusta squad.

It is mandatory. If you get caught by mephiston, you can buy your squad one more turn of life by isueing a challenge. likewise, his shots are precision on 6'es, and you get the make/defend sweeping advances on his initiative.

Also, power klaw is win, hes has two wounds, and can buy eavy armor (sit him in the front and LOS wounds if you wont be needing him to crunch armor). I make use of my boss pole every game.

Nob, klaw, bosspole and 'eavy armor are 100% mandatory in any and every squad of boyz, regardless of their purpose. Boyz squads are essentially Nob delivery systems, and even shooty ones should be getting stuck in.

 Ailaros wrote:
Anyways, I don't know how mandatory it is. I mean, a nob klaw costs as much as a rokkit buggy and several in an army comes to a unit of deffkoptaz, with some TL rokkits or buzzsaws. If you're looking for anti-tank, I think I'd rather go for those instead. Plus, if it's vehicles you're worried about, those points could easily go towards a small lootaz or tankbusta squad.

The difference is that the nobz add a huge boost to a unit of boys. I think almost any Ork player would agree that dropping a unit of koptas in exchange for a nob in each squad would be well worth the minor loss in mobility. They're also debatably better against armour than a unit of 3 twl rokkit-koptas, as he'll be hitting a vehicle on 3s with 4 str 9 attacks on the charge (at worst). That's auto-glancing most vehicles, and more often than not penetrating. The only real downside is the resulting explosion is likely to kill several orks. There's a reason you seldom see a unit of boys without a nob, and it's because it's so effective.

I don't get it. A boyz mob is fearless, and morale only starts being a serious issue once the mob is basically finished off anyways. I mean, I guess I could see in a trukk mob where fearless is broken pretty quickly, but for a 30-strong tide-sized mob? Doesn't seem like it would get all that much use.

And I don't get why a squad of boyz is a nob delivery system anymore. We're playing 6th ed now. Hidden weapon upgrades aren't hidden anymore, for lots of reasons.

And that's bad, because, we're talking about something that suffers ID like a space marine, and talking about spending a LOT of points for something that only ever does anything in assault, which is much worse now. If you really, really wanted a nob, and wanted some chopping power, just take a big choppa and be done with it. The number of things you can do in the real world (let's not stray into absurd scenarios) with a klaw that you can't do with a BC is pretty short, practically speaking.

Sure, a klaw nob may have been required in 5th, but I don't really see what's so good about it now.

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Anyways, I don't know how mandatory it is. I mean, a nob klaw costs as much as a rokkit buggy and several in an army comes to a unit of deffkoptaz, with some TL rokkits or buzzsaws. If you're looking for anti-tank, I think I'd rather go for those instead. Plus, if it's vehicles you're worried about, those points could easily go towards a small lootaz or tankbusta squad.

The difference is that the nobz add a huge boost to a unit of boys. I think almost any Ork player would agree that dropping a unit of koptas in exchange for a nob in each squad would be well worth the minor loss in mobility. They're also debatably better against armour than a unit of 3 twl rokkit-koptas, as he'll be hitting a vehicle on 3s with 4 str 9 attacks on the charge (at worst). That's auto-glancing most vehicles, and more often than not penetrating. The only real downside is the resulting explosion is likely to kill several orks. There's a reason you seldom see a unit of boys without a nob, and it's because it's so effective.

9 attacks on the charge? Why does a slugga-klaw nob get 9 attacks? or did i miss something.

He's talking about replacing a single unit of koptas with with a few nobz scattered around the army. In this case, you misread the quote, as they're STRENGTH 9, not 9 attacks.

In any case, it's still not a good argument. Nobz are going to be very dilute in their killing power, likely separated by a foot or more on the tabletop, and likely not attacking the same target at the same time, or being able to apply their CC-only killing power either early or often. On less-mobile units.

Meanwhile, koptaz are fast, have interesting mobility options (like outflanking), can hit early, and can attack every turn they survive. They are strategically disruptive, and they have much better force concentration.

Taking a big choppa to glance vehicles to death, or taking a squad of MANZ or nob bikers with klaws is one thing, but to say that boyz mobs are better than koptaz (especially if we're talking buzz saws that fly over enemy units to attack tanks), then that's a bit of a stretch.

If AV 13 is your issue try Lootas and cannons. If fliers then lootas or dakkajets

I like my boys doing one thing well and that is either weight of fire or assault. I run shoota boys with big shootas and no nobs for weight of fire, and slugga boys with a fully decked out Nob (and probably a Warboss) for assault.

Trukk boys might still work in 6th, race up , trukk gets blown up, boys pick themselves up and assult next turn, open topped is assult vehicle after all. But what with giving up first blood more often than not it may not be worth it. I don't put boys in battlewaggons because theats where the burnas go (with meks and big meks if possible)

For Orks lootas and the similar types of weapons aer the answer. Having faced Orks on more occations than I care to think about I can say that Lootas are never a bad choice

In my experience playing orks...

Koptas really excel at one thing, and that's first turn vehicle destruction. Scout move as close to an enemy vehicle as possible, on your turn dash forward and assault with buzzsaws. I don't have the book on me but I believe that makes like 4 s10 hits to back armor. With 6e, transport vehicles might give you trouble with passenger overwatch though. It's a risky tactic, but if you don't like to make risks you're playing the wrong army.

As for klaws, I once though big choppas were an equally good choice. Well, I was wrong. You might be decent at opening up vehicles, but the usefulness ends there. In CC, you'll never ID those multiwound models that need to die fast, and since you have no AP, everything gets an armor save. This basically means after your attacks connect, roughly 33% will even do anything to meqs. Big choppas might be good mixed into a nob squad, but they really have no place outside of that. You have better forms of anti mech anyways (lootas, etc). For what it's worth, claws are better than big choppas at cracking vehicles too. No vehicle is safe from the nipple twisting fury of a Killy klaw, while a big choppa can more often than not fail at krumping a sentinel.

 Necroshea wrote:
Koptas really excel at one thing, and that's first turn vehicle destruction. Scout move as close to an enemy vehicle as possible, on your turn dash forward and assault with buzzsaws.

I don't think you can do that anymore... Welcome to 6th edition. :( Oh, and it was only 3 S6 attacks, not 4 S10... ^^

Used my orks for the first time last week and i have to say i felt the lack of power weapons, my friend used some terminators and there was little i could do in combat to stop them, even weight of numbers didnt work as he didnt fail a single save.

So yes next thing i do is buy a box of nobs with power klaws.

hobojebus wrote:
Used my orks for the first time last week and i have to say i felt the lack of power weapons, my friend used some terminators and there was little i could do in combat to stop them, even weight of numbers didnt work as he didnt fail a single save.

So yes next thing i do is buy a box of nobs with power klaws.

And that's how chance works: Your nobs could roll 2s to hit or 1s to wound, you can't base tactics on one freak game. Terminators reliably die to massed fire. A nob with a claw will be challenged out and slaughtered before he even attacks.

hobojebus wrote:
Used my orks for the first time last week and i have to say i felt the lack of power weapons, my friend used some terminators and there was little i could do in combat to stop them, even weight of numbers didnt work as he didnt fail a single save.

So yes next thing i do is buy a box of nobs with power klaws.

Actually, the answer to terminators is dice not expencive units. Sit down with your buddy again, his terminators against a 30 person boyz squad with shootas, See how that goes

 Nym wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:
Koptas really excel at one thing, and that's first turn vehicle destruction. Scout move as close to an enemy vehicle as possible, on your turn dash forward and assault with buzzsaws.

I don't think you can do that anymore... Welcome to 6th edition. :( Oh, and it was only 3 S6 attacks, not 4 S10... ^^

Ewwww you're right. I haven't fiddled with orks in 6th yet. Actually I haven't fiddled with orks in a while, so yeah you're right on both counts.

Man that sucks, I'm going to miss me some buzz bombing run

My experience in 6th with klaw nobs in boyz mobs has been that they either get challenged out by some sergeant and waste their attacks overkilling the poor chump, or they hide from a challenge made by an IC who can take him out before he swings. They rarely get to freely swing against an enemy unit, plus the fact that even chump sergeants sometimes get lucky and pop him before he swings.

Power Klaws are still a great tool for Orks to use, I just prefer them on MANz or warbosses. The fact that a pklaw nob costs about the same as a MAN just seals the deal for me, I'd much rather have a unit of 3 MANz than 3 klaw nobs spread across the army.