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Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior






Don't have access to the codex or update, and the FAQ on the website keeps coming out in German. Quick question: do Daemons still have Eternal Warriror across the board?

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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Here is a list of the FaQ's they should be in English.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2&_requestid=584554

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Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

This is a tricky question. The BRB Daemon rule does not provide Eternal Warrior. The Codex Daemons rules do provide Eternal Warrior. Which combination of these rules applies to the official updates is a mess.

Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Statesville NC USA

Codex trumps BRB. So for the moment; yes.

Christ people; when someone asks a question just answer it.

"If you are not naughty you get a cookie. If you are naked, you get a cookie." - Insaniak, Dakka Mod


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






The answer is yes they do. All GW did was add fear to them. The only thing anyone debates is wether or not the Daemons listed in the WD update have a 5++, but the answer to that is a yes as well. So to recap for you the only thing that changed for Daemons is the stats of a few units and they got fear.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 WolvesForTheWolfGod wrote:
The answer is yes they do. All GW did was add fear to them. The only thing anyone debates is wether or not the Daemons listed in the WD update have a 5++, but the answer to that is a yes as well. So to recap for you the only thing that changed for Daemons is the stats of a few units and they got fear.


The answer to the second about the 5++ is not yes.

Right now Flamers and Screamers have no Invul.

Per pg 32 of the BRB "Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once."

Codex trumps BRB, so Flamers and Screamers get Daemon from their Codex and cannot get Daemon from the BRB as you cannot Daemon more than once.
   
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Stephens City, VA

40k-noob wrote:
 WolvesForTheWolfGod wrote:
The answer is yes they do. All GW did was add fear to them. The only thing anyone debates is wether or not the Daemons listed in the WD update have a 5++, but the answer to that is a yes as well. So to recap for you the only thing that changed for Daemons is the stats of a few units and they got fear.


The answer to the second about the 5++ is not yes.

Right now Flamers and Screamers have no Invul.

Per pg 32 of the BRB "Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once."

Codex trumps BRB, so Flamers and Screamers get Daemon from their Codex and cannot get Daemon from the BRB as you cannot Daemon more than once.


Actually they do, as they only gain that benefit once.

Unless you can show me where Codex Daemons gives flamers/screamers/Soulgrinders/etc a 5++ on a case by case basis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 16:19:16


   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




They only get the rule "Daemon" once - from their codex
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





you are reading that wrong.

"..benefit of a special rule.." meaning the rule itself not the benefits bestowed by the rule.

so you can only get Daemon once.

ninja'd by Nos...:(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 16:38:29


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

nosferatu1001 wrote:
They only get the rule "Daemon" once - from their codex


The rule doesn't say that, the rule says I can only gain each benefit once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
40k-noob wrote:
you are reading that wrong.

"..benefit of a special rule.." meaning the rule itself not the benefits bestowed by the rule.

so you can only get Daemon once.

ninja'd by Nos...:(



"Cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. Nothing states I cannot have a rule more than once, just each benefit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 16:40:42


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
They only get the rule "Daemon" once - from their codex


The rule doesn't say that, the rule says I can only gain each benefit once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
40k-noob wrote:
you are reading that wrong.

"..benefit of a special rule.." meaning the rule itself not the benefits bestowed by the rule.

so you can only get Daemon once.

ninja'd by Nos...:(



"Cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. Nothing states I cannot have a rule more than once, just each benefit.


Look at that paragraph again.
BRB pg 32 wrote:
Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple different special rules are cumulative.


The context is clear that the BRB is referring to the "special rule" in the first sentence and then in the second sentence it refers to the "effects" or "benefits" if you will, of multiple different special rules.

So for example, you can only get A(which gives invul 6++) once, but you could get A(6++)+B(5++)+C(4++) for an end result of 4++

You cannot get Daemon(EW, DA, DR, sv++, Fear) + Daemon(Fear, 5++)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/30 16:52:45


 
   
Made in im
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Liverpool

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
"Cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. Nothing states I cannot have a rule more than once, just each benefit.

Doesn't matter either way. The BRB rule doesn't even come into it.
Two rules, same name with different effects. It's almost a perfect case of a rules conflict.
And in such a case the Codex rule must be used.
Even if this wasn't such a clear case of a conflict, it would be one rule or another. Nothing supports the combining of special rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 16:49:38


 
   
Made in us
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Stephens City, VA

Actually the context is clear it's talking about the "benefit"

Daemons get a 5++ as they only get the benefit once

After the comma it's talking about different named rules with the same benefiits.

   
Made in nl
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Gain the benefit of a special rule
and
Benefit from a special rule
are 2 distinctly different things. The first means you can get a rule twice, but not benefit from a specific feature of the rule twice. While the second could mean you could not get the rule twice imho.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 16:53:01


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Made in us
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Stephens City, VA

 grendel083 wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
"Cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. Nothing states I cannot have a rule more than once, just each benefit.

Doesn't matter either way. The BRB rule doesn't even come into it.
Two rules, same name with different effects. It's almost a perfect case of a rules conflict.
And in such a case the Codex rule must be used.
Even if this wasn't such a clear case of a conflict, it would be one rule or another. Nothing supports the combining of special rules.


Its right there, cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. that covers how do use multiple special rules of the same name. ignore the same stacked benefits unless explicitly allowed.

   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

 gregor_xenos wrote:
Codex trumps BRB. So for the moment; yes.

Christ people; when someone asks a question just answer it.


That is not the question he asked - there are Daemons in other books too. So the list is...

Daemons - C:CD: Have EW
Daemons -not C:CD: No EW

WD update - It is confusing, most people seem to say yes but that is not a definitive rules response.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 18:27:28


Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
Made in us
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Stephens City, VA

 gregor_xenos wrote:
Codex trumps BRB. So for the moment; yes.

Christ people; when someone asks a question just answer it.


Only when there's a conflict.

They wind up getting the benefits of both rules.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 calypso2ts wrote:
 gregor_xenos wrote:
Codex trumps BRB. So for the moment; yes.

Christ people; when someone asks a question just answer it.


That is not the question he asked - there are Daemons in other books too. So the list is...

Caemons - C:CD: Have EW
Daemons -not C:CD: No EW

WD update - It is confusing, most people seem to say yes but that is not a definitive rules response.


Without a doubt yes to EW.

WD is an update to the Codex and the Codex Daemon rule is still applied first to all Daemons in the Codex.

The point of contention is whether or not they also get Daemon from the BRB and to that end i do not recall there ever being a special rule being applied twice to the same model.
   
Made in us
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So, to conclude, they have a 5++ save, Fear, and Eternal Warrior, right?
   
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Stephens City, VA

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So, to conclude, they have a 5++ save, Fear, and Eternal Warrior, right?

and
Invulnerable, daemonic assault,daemonic rivalry, fearless. Think that's the rest of them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 17:35:38


   
Made in us
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 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So, to conclude, they have a 5++ save, Fear, and Eternal Warrior, right?


No 5++.

Otherwise you have to give the Soul Grinders a 5++ as well and that is clearly not intended as the FAQ points.
   
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Stephens City, VA

40k-noob wrote:
 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So, to conclude, they have a 5++ save, Fear, and Eternal Warrior, right?


No 5++.

Otherwise you have to give the Soul Grinders a 5++ as well and that is clearly not intended as the FAQ points.


Why not all they did was add fear to the entire codex

They get the 5++ as well beings they have the special rule Daemon.

   
Made in im
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Liverpool

Why would they need to add Fear to all units, if they apparently already have it?
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

 grendel083 wrote:
Why would they need to add Fear to all units, if they apparently already have it?


Because they felt the need. It doesn't matter as adding fear in the faq doesn't prove anything.

I can only get the german FAQ atm ... not sure why.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Daemons FAQ says this :

Codex Daemon FAQ v1.1 wrote:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is
but add “…and have the Fear special rule”.


and the Soul Grinders codex entry says they only deploy like other daemons and are immune to Shaken and Stunned results.

So clearly, GW does not want the Daemon rule to give an invul to the Soul Grinder

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 17:49:01


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

40k-noob wrote:
The Daemons FAQ says this :

Codex Daemon FAQ v1.1 wrote:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is
but add “…and have the Fear special rule”.


and the Soul Grinders codex entry says they only deploy like other daemons and are immune to Shaken and Stunned results.

So clearly, GW does not want the Daemon rule to give an invul to the Soul Grinder


So they gave Daemons Fear, they already had given Codex Daemons Fear, why would they give it especially to the Soul Grinder as he already has it

   
Made in im
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Liverpool

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 grendel083 wrote:
Why would they need to add Fear to all units, if they apparently already have it?


Because they felt the need. It doesn't matter as adding fear in the faq doesn't prove anything.

I can only get the german FAQ atm ... not sure why.


It would be an FAQ then, not an amendment. It's added because they don't already have the rule.
   
Made in us
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Stephens City, VA

 grendel083 wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 grendel083 wrote:
Why would they need to add Fear to all units, if they apparently already have it?


Because they felt the need. It doesn't matter as adding fear in the faq doesn't prove anything.

I can only get the german FAQ atm ... not sure why.


It would be an FAQ then, not an amendment. It's added because they don't already have the rule.


Can't double check right now as I can't read German and the FAQ's are comin up in that language right now for some reason.

Regardless it doesn't matter as the rulebook allows the special rule to stack, just not the benefits.
It's not a conflict. so Codex does not trump BGB.

   
Made in im
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Liverpool

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 grendel083 wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
"Cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. Nothing states I cannot have a rule more than once, just each benefit.

Doesn't matter either way. The BRB rule doesn't even come into it.
Two rules, same name with different effects. It's almost a perfect case of a rules conflict.
And in such a case the Codex rule must be used.
Even if this wasn't such a clear case of a conflict, it would be one rule or another. Nothing supports the combining of special rules.


Its right there, cannot gain the benefit of a rule more than once. that covers how do use multiple special rules of the same name. ignore the same stacked benefits unless explicitly allowed.

Just to come back to this...
The rule on page 32 covers having multiples of the same special rule. That isn't the case here. The rule is only granted once.
Instead we have a rule with two definitions. This is know as a conflict.
The rule is only being applied once, just a case of using the right rule.
Page 32 rule comes into play as an example when a unit gains rage twice (as can happen with the new Chaos SM book).

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
40k-noob wrote:
The Daemons FAQ says this :

Codex Daemon FAQ v1.1 wrote:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is
but add “…and have the Fear special rule”.


and the Soul Grinders codex entry says they only deploy like other daemons and are immune to Shaken and Stunned results.

So clearly, GW does not want the Daemon rule to give an invul to the Soul Grinder


So they gave Daemons Fear, they already had given Codex Daemons Fear, why would they give it especially to the Soul Grinder as he already has it


Because......."Soul Grinders codex entry says they only deploy like other daemons and are immune to Shaken and Stunned results" is what the codex Daemon rule for Soul Grinder says.

They don't get everything that other Daemons in the Codex get from page 27. No Fearless, No Invulnerable!, No Daemonic Rivalry and No Fear

They ONLY deploy like other Daemons and then the FAQ adds Fear specifically to the Soul Grinder to complete the "Fear" loop but still not give it a invul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
looks like an update to the FAQ just released but it is German for some reason.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570038a_Chaos_Daemons_v1.1a.pdf

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 19:52:22


 
   
 
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