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Just wondering if there are any hints, tips or tricks out there for a semi competative Eldar list that will hold its own at LGS?

Has any one got a decent trick they use or something they have had to fight that trumped them perhaps something really off the wall?

What a vague and broad question. Your asking 'what wins for Eldar'. Dice help, so does rolling well. Is your mind blown?

All I can say is read the forums instead of trolling with a new post. That will answer your question. They even have a handy dandy 'search' box.

I have searched and there is nothing vague and general which is what i am after, tips and tricks not builds or specific tactics and a specific list. There are similar posts for other armies that are very popular and nothing such for Eldar so i dont see why you belive this to be a dud post.

Two ways of doing it. Only two.

1) Harlequin's with A shadowseer, a Farseer and one or two Dark eldar Archons with Shadow field saves.

2) A full squad of Warlocks on a bike with 2 Farseers on bikes and the Baron on his skyboard up front.

That's basically it. I've been playing Eldar since 2nd and this is the only consistent way of winning with them.

To the above options there is only one more requirement. 3 Squads of 3 War walkers with Scatter lasers.

Do whatever you want after that, it doesn't matter. If you take either of those options (But especially option 2) you'll have one of the hardest units in the game to kill when standing up against shooting and a damn tough unit in CQC.

Super sad they only have 1.5 different builds available to them but thems the breaks.

Dark elder do better on their own than Eldar do.

Well, in the 6th ed, I haven't played Eldar in an RTT (just my Necrons), but in several friendly games. The following core worked very well:

Fuegan
FortuneSeer
10 Warlocks
Fuegan in front can soak up almost all wounds up to AP 1/2 which are transferred via LoS.

10 Harlequins w/ kisses, ShadowSeer
They have a 4+ cover save all the time and get a 2+ cover save if in cover.

3 Warwalkers w/ scatterlasers
Shooting goodness.

2x5 Pathfinders
Scoring purposes.

2x 5 Fire Dragons w/ Serpents
Removing serious threats like tanks or (nonflying) MCs.

How about...a fire dragon exchart on the quadgun on a bsation? It would kick ass! BS5 S9 +tank hunter interseptor and no cover saves. Die sucker tanks!

 Niiai wrote:
How about...a fire dragon exchart on the quadgun on a bsation? It would kick ass! BS5 S9 +tank hunter interseptor and no cover saves. Die sucker tanks!

In fact, this is an option, but its rather expensive. If you face an army with no flyers, this combo can be more or less obsolete.

It doesn't help that Fire dragons are so fragile they'll die pretty easily to return fire.

Hmmm...I was planing on allying eldars to my dark eldar to pull of this trick.

Would it be good to use a falcon or a wave serpent as a gunship if there are flyers and then deploy them in the tank if there are no flyers?

Celtic, everything eldar dies easaly. At least they have a 4++ and a 3+ behind there. (ALthough 9 point DE warriors also have 4++ behind there, are cheaper. All I loose is the BS5, tank hunter and krack shot. (Although a S10 lascannon with no coversave sounds very good vs everything tank.)

You're better off using the Flakk cannon instead of the Las cannon in MOST situations.

If you use the fire dragon trick it will only work against the same opponent once. Then they'll catch on and wipe them out the first time they have a decent chance of shooting them.

What units should i be considering in terms of objectives?

Taking the enemy objectives - Guardian jetbikes?
Holding own objectives - Pathfinders?
First blood - War walkers with scatter lasers?
Line breaker - Guardian jetbikes or Swoopin hawkes?
Warlord - ???

 Niiai wrote:
How about...a fire dragon exchart on the quadgun on a bsation? It would kick ass! BS5 S9 +tank hunter interseptor and no cover saves. Die sucker tanks!

For less points than the Fire Dragon squad w/Exarch and bastion, you could get a War Walker squadron with scatter lasers that puts out 24 shots a turn. Throw Guide on that and they'll be a solid threat to pretty much any flyer. As a bonus, they're also rather more flexible than Fire Dragons who won't get to shoot, and easier to keep alive than the single Exarch.

Taking the enemy objectives - Guardian jetbikes?
Holding own objectives - Pathfinders?
First blood - War walkers with scatter lasers?
Line breaker - Guardian jetbikes or Swoopin hawkes?
Warlord - ???

Pathfinders are good objective holders unless the enemy fields cover-save ignoring weapons. In this case, its better to have a backup solution like DA or Guardians with a weapon platform.
Warwalkers are a potential unit which can give you first blood, especially when guided.
Line breakers: Swooping Hawks are tricky to play in order to keep them alive.
Warlord: Fortuneseer or fortuned PL.

Is mindwar a viable option for first blood and warlord?

This is a DE/Eldar list that I ran across this past weekend.
Not only did it kick the crap out of my dual-helldrake Plague Marine army, it scored first in the tourney by a mile.
Make no doubt, my fellow dakka-ites, this is a top-tier list that is extremely hard to compete against.


Baron - 105

Asdrubael Vect - 240

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL - 200

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL - 200

20 Warriors - 2 splinter cannons, Sybarite - 210

5 Beast masters - 5 kymerra, 8 razorwings - 240

3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons - 56

3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons - 56

Eldrad - 210

3 Guardian jetbikes - 66

3 Guardian jetbikes - 66

Aegis Defense line - quad gun - 100

labmouse42 I fail to se how that list can be verry good.

That being sead it does have an ENORMUS amount of bodies at 1750. Numerbing 83 ish. How does it work? Warriors hiding behind the aegis line, wytches running forwards along with baron and beastmasters, trueborn following and sniping things.

Jetbikes rushing in claiming objectives lategame and vect and baron enshuring first turn. PS: Is vect manning the quad gun? I am a bit baffeled.

Thedirtofluck wrote:
Is mindwar a viable option for first blood and warlord?

Well, mindwar could work for purposes of first blood. But the Farseer will be exposed to return fire.

 Niiai wrote:
labmouse42 I fail to se how that list can be verry good. I am a bit baffeled.

It's funny how it works, isn't it? Often the lists that completely stomp your face into and ground played by extremely good players are ones that make you say "Huh -- how does that work?". This is even more true with Eldar/DE lists as they don't just spam unit X.
I doubt this will ever be a netlist because its one of those things that wont understand how it kicks you in the jimmies until you have been left gasping for breath.

Let me illustrate what knocked the wind out of me This army list swept the tourney beating everyone hands down. It takes advantage of some rules mechanics to make it extremely hard to counter.

What did it look like?
Super Friends
In the beast pack, my opponent had Vect and the Baron. He kept Eldrad nearby with a squad of 20 warriors. This gave the beast pack the following advantages
- Perferred Enemy
- Fearless
- Gernades
- Ignore terrain (for beasts)
Death Star points total is only: 585... 795 if you really want to add in Eldrads cost, but he isnt usually tied to it exclusively.

Dirty Tricks
Going First
Vect plus the baron gives a very good chance of going first. This is critical for the list, as it needs to get invisibility off.


Time is limited
We played on hammer and anvil deployment. I deployed in the corner of the board and shimmied my rhinos around to maximize the time it would take for him to get into assault. Even with everything working in my favor, he was able to get into assault on turn 3.

In most situations, he will get the beat pack into assault on turn 2. This is because he can rush forward 12" + d6" run on turn one. With fleet, thats an average of 16" forward on turn one. Turn two he can move another 12" then has a 8" reliable assault range.

Beasts are fast!


Eldrad on point
Eldrad spent his time managing the quad gun while sitting in a unit of warriors. This gave the gun a BS of 5. Eldrad picked up the primarias from the divination tree (though thats not really required) and the rest of the spells going for invisibility.

Eldrad will cast invisibility on the unit every turn, that's critical to success. The rest of Eldrad's powers are just gravy.


Ah..... invisibility
invisibility gives the following perks
- 2+ cover from terrain.
- Enemy is WS1 in combat.


What does this all add up to?
Fearless Beasts
One of the balancing factors of beasts is they can lose a combat and then run like puppies. While razorwings have 5 wounds each, once they start eating wounds its easy to lose combat by a lot. Normally this means that while the beasts might kill 6 MEQ, you can still win the combat by doing 10 wounds to the beasts, who turn tail and run.

Vect (or any fearless) character negates this disadvantage. Suddenly those 15 point razorwing flocks are 3 point ablative wounds. This negates their balancing disadvantage making them extremely powerful in 6th edition.


Ah..... invisibility
Making your opponent WS1 gives two advantages. First it means the beasts are hit on a 5+ in assault, and hit on a 3+. To get this benifit vs normal MEQ, you need to have a WS of a 9. This is a huge advantage when attacking large numbers of units. This also negates a big disadvantage of beast packs, being vulnerable to shooting.


What is your preference sir?
Having perferred enemy pass onto the beasts mean that they reroll any hits of a 1. Therefore anything but a 2 on the first attack are rerolled, giving an average hit chance of 88.87%.

This also helps razorwing flocks by giving them an extra chance to rend. Instead of 16% rends, they will be getting more as they can reroll any rolls of 1.


So why is this underpriced in 6th
Beast packs were priced for 5th edition in mind. Specific weakensses were put into the units so there was a hard counter for every army. Now few, if any, armies have a real counter.

In summary, these disadvantages no longer exist and advantages are created.
- Fearless makes them not worry about running from shooting
- Fearless makes them not care about losing combat
- Invisibility makes them immune to any attacks that don't ignore cover
- Invisibility increases the chances of beasts hitting in assault from 50% to 88%
- Perferred enemy increases the chances of rending birds
- Gernades mean hiding in cover does not let you strike first.

Including characters, the cost for this unit is only 585 points. It should cost double that.


But I will just...
Helldrakes
I brought two helldrakes. My opponent spread out his razorwings. I only hit 3 per helldrake, had to eat a Khymerae or Beastmaster before I could eat a Razorwing flock. I managed to kill 3 of them before he got into assault with my helldrakes -- and it was not enough to stop him from wiping the CSM.

The reason for this was because he kept his razorwings spread around the pack, so there was not a easy set for me to hit.


Daemon Flamers
Flamers are not the perfect solution. Flamers don't auto-kill beasts, so the razorwing flocks can eat lots of wounds. He can also put the flamers onto the baron until he fails his 2+ save.

Beasts also assault as fast as flamers can move and shoot. This means that flamers must drop far back or be overrun. If flamers deep strike next to the beasts, they will not do enough wounds to wipe the squad.

The other issue is that if flamers are on the board, Eldrad just grabs the power that gives the beast pack a 4+ invuln save.


Use divination to ignore cover
Remember, Eldard has runes of warding, so there is a 50% that spell will not go off, and a ~30% that your psyker will perils himself. This is not a solution.


Not a one trick pony
What makes this even better is that the entire army still has a number of useful tools. Trueborn are throwing out 8 poisoned shots at long range every turn. Eldar jetbikes are late-turn objective grabbing. Its extremely effective!

wuestenfux wrote:

Thedirtofluck wrote:
Is mindwar a viable option for first blood and warlord?

Well, mindwar could work for purposes of first blood. But the Farseer will be exposed to return fire.

If you can get firstblood and warlord in one go with mind war then trading that for a farseer is a good trade if he is not your warlord. (That is i am assuming that first blood can work on an independant character killed within a unit)

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Two ways of doing it. Only two.

1) Harlequin's with A shadowseer, a Farseer and one or two Dark eldar Archons with Shadow field saves.

2) A full squad of Warlocks on a bike with 2 Farseers on bikes and the Baron on his skyboard up front.

That's basically it. I've been playing Eldar since 2nd and this is the only consistent way of winning with them.

To the above options there is only one more requirement. 3 Squads of 3 War walkers with Scatter lasers.

Do whatever you want after that, it doesn't matter. If you take either of those options (But especially option 2) you'll have one of the hardest units in the game to kill when standing up against shooting and a damn tough unit in CQC.

Super sad they only have 1.5 different builds available to them but thems the breaks.

Dark elder do better on their own than Eldar do.

Massive generalisations much? I don't use either of these gimmick combos and have been doing very well against highly competitive players and lists.

If someone asked me how to win some games with Eldar I would probably give them the combos you mentioned, they are relatively straightforward and inexperienced players won't be able to deal with them. However if someone asked me how to make a highly competitive Eldar list which could CONSISTENTLY win games and have a chance in competitive tournaments these combos are right at the bottom of my list. The second you run into psychic defense any Eldar list which relies on getting Fortune off falls over, and even without it good players will know how to deal with these lists i.e squash the Farseer, bait the Harlies into the open so their cover save drops, dump huge numbers of attacks into them in combat (Harlies get crushed by Boyz after you challenge out the wound sponges so they can't take all the hits, or if you assault with two units and ensure one isn't touching the character), bring cover ignoring weapons (hello Heldrakes), block LOS to the character/s you are using to absorb everything so they can't have wounds allocated to them, keep feeding them chaff units, Tank Shock them (you aren't Fearless like a proper deathstar needs to be) and generally just limit their ability to influence the game or shoot the rest of the Eldar army to death. I wouldn't consider 3 x 3 Walkers an auto take by any means, they are still very fragile and their effectiveness without Guide is significantly worse so I wouldn't suggest bringing more units than you can support.

Eldar are in a much much better position than Dark Eldar are mostly because they can actually ally with people to make up for the major holes in their list. Venom spam is a reasonable hard counter to some armies, but it just gets taken off so badly by everyone else that its really a toss up if you are talking about lists with no Allies.

If you want to take a dedicated squad to man the Aegis line/Bastion emplaced weapon then imo Fire Dragons are not the best choice. They are certainly effective, but the problem is they are very expensive for a unit that effectively just sits around doing nothing half of the time since their actual weapons are very short ranged - if you use the Interceptor rule then you won't be firing in your turn. The best unit Eldar have for the job is probably Dark Reapers, the Exarch can get Fast Shot, which works very nicely with the Lascannon and they are tougher than the Dragons. That leaves you with a unit which can blast away at Marines from your side of the board if they don't have anti air duties, and if there are no planes you still get a 2 shot Lascannon out of it. The Lascannon is arguably more helpful than the Quad Gun in any case, since the really dangerous fliers tend to be the AV12 ones, which the S9 really helps against.

For reference my 2k list:
Eldrad
Avatar
2 x 10 Guardians with Scatter Lasers (1 with Warlock)
2 x 3 Jetbikes
2 Wraithlords with Shuriken Cannon and Scatter Laser
3 War Walkers with 2 Scatter Lasers
GK Inquisitor with 2 Servo Skulls
2 x 10 Strikes with 2 Psycannons and Psybolt Ammo + Psybolt Razors with Searchlights
5 Interceptors with Incinerator
Aegis Line with Quad Gun

Eldrad Guides the Walkers and keeps the Avatar alive. Guardians tend to get used as screens and often die horribly keeping the Grey Knights alive or absorbing charges so the MCs can smash face. The Jetbikes usually reserve and grab whichever objectives my infantry can't get to + give me an easy way to get Linebreaker. In Relic one unit usually deploys and instantly brings it 6" back towards me with the Flat Out/Assault jump move. Avatar + Wraithlords provide a solid centre which most armies struggle to deal with, Fortune lets the Avatar go toe to toe against basically anything in combat and not much can actually fight S10 T8 in combat particularly since they are characters so don't have to deal with hidden Fists etc anymore. The Walkers give me a nice torrent ability, the Inquisitor keeps Infiltrators off me, the Strikes provide more torrent and keep Deep Strikers (i.e Daemons and Pods) off me (Eldrad goes in reserve when I need to cast Warp Quake), Razors give me Searchlights so I can hurt things turn one all the time and the Aegis gives me a nice central block of cover to run to (it usually goes 6"+ forward from my deployment zone) and gives me some shots at fliers. It has crushed Nob bikers and a Wraith/Destroyer lord spam list (if someone walks into my killzone I can drop nearly two full squads of Wraiths in a turn), and matches up very favourably with Daemons (due to Warp Quake on the vast majority of the board) and Nids (since Warding stops the psychic buffs, it has enough shooting to drop MCs and the Avatar and even the Wraithlords do fine against them in assault) which are two of the major power lists atm. It also does fine against Necron air as long as its not killpoints, in general everything runs forward pretty quickly which limits the options for the fliers, and it can hurt them reasonably well with the Quad Gun and guided Walkers.

Thats a good list.
I've been considering allying coteaz with melta servitors with my eldar - his interceptor rule should go someway to protecting my back line from drop pods. Was wondering about an allied vindicare on an aegis lascannon. When no fliers arrive he could shoot a character from a squad with no look out sir. (if that works - I've not looked into it properly yet)


@the OP
This is what I got from when I asked a similar question.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/493292.page#5053991

I love wraithwall, I won't re-post it (it's in the link). It has counters, but I'm working on countering the counters

 labmouse42 wrote:

In most situations, he will get the beat pack into assault on turn 2. This is because he can rush forward 12" + d6" run on turn one. With fleet, thats an average of 16" forward on turn one. Turn two he can move another 12" then has a 8" reliable assault range.

Beasts are fast!

How are they moving that fast with Vect attached. He is infantry no?

Budzerker wrote:
How are they moving that fast with Vect attached. He is infantry no?

Unlike in 5th edition, the unit does not move at the slowest models rate. He starts off with vect in the front of the pack, then the pack starts to outpace him as the pack moves 6" a turn faster.
By turn 3, he had to use two beasts in a conga-line to keep Vect in coherency.
On the turn he assaulted, Vect got his assault move, and then his consolidate moves. He was out of the assault on the first round of assault, but was in it on the second round.
Try playing it. Its actually easier than one might think to keep a infantry in with a beast pack.

While Vect did wind up killing 8 PMs during the game, his biggest contribution was fearless. On the bottom of three, I charged him with 20 PMs, and did 12 wounds to his beasts causing him to lose the combat by 8. Instead of running and risking a sweep, Vect made them not care. That's part of what makes beasts so good in this edition. Their biggest drawback is removed by adding a fearless IC.

Wait...if moving infantery can keep up with the beast pack then there is no real need to keep using the barron. (Well stealth and stealing a turn is nice.) One could do the same thing with an archon with the grenade lacuher as well.

While Vect is cool, I think he is very exspensive,

 Niiai wrote:
Wait...if moving infantery can keep up with the beast pack then there is no real need to keep using the barron. (Well stealth and stealing a turn is nice.) One could do the same thing with an archon with the grenade lacuher as well.

While Vect is cool, I think he is very exspensive,

Except that the Baron is a very efficient choice with Beastmasters, as he gives them offensive & defensive grenades, stealth and hit & run, and has a Shadowfield. Not to mention the +1 to go first. He just lacks a power weapon. But for only slightly more than 100 points, he's far more efficient than your tooled up Archon.

Vect is the only character in the DE list that provides Preferred Enemy (which is huge, especially for Razorwing Flock) and Fearless (which is nice, but they get with three pain tokens as well).

 Niiai wrote:
Wait...if moving infantery can keep up with the beast pack then there is no real need to keep using the barron. (Well stealth and stealing a turn is nice.) One could do the same thing with an archon with the grenade lacuher as well.

Agreed. Look at what the Baron carries
- Shadow Field
- Gernade Launcher
A bare bones archon with that gear costs 115. While the baron only has 2 wounds and 3 attacks, he clocks in 10 points cheaper, before you account for any of his other gear. Point for point, the baron is a beast. What the baron brings to the party is gernades. He can also accept a challange so you can let Vect plow through enemy models.

 Niiai wrote:
While Vect is cool, I think he is very exspensive,

Fearless is key. Your other fearless options are Drazhar, pheonix lords, or 3 haemonculi. Personally I would go with Vect due but the other options could work for you as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mandor wrote:
Vect is the only character in the DE list that provides Preferred Enemy (which is huge, especially for Razorwing Flock) and Fearless (which is nice, but they get with three pain tokens as well).

Ding! Letting your razorwings reroll 1s to wound means that they have more chances to rend.
Hit and run is another huge advantage! I forgot about that one Mandor.

labmouse42 wrote:Eldrad will cast invisibility on the unit every turn, that's critical to success. The rest of Eldrad's powers are just gravy

This is what bothers me about that list. Eldrad cannot guarantee that he gets invisibility. Sure, you have a decent chance at it if you roll all 3 of your powers on Telepathy, but I would hesitate to call it a good chance, and I wouldn't count on it if you only roll 2 dice- which you need to if you really want Divination Primaris.

Even if you get invisibility, you seem vulnerable to deep striking / out flanking units which can ignore your cover. Things like Drop Pod Stern Guard, etc. The army is basically built to let the beast pack soak wounds, and smash the opponents face off. But if the opponent doesn't have just one front, and can apply pressure from multiple angels especially with shooting that ignores invisibility like flamers and special issue ammo... the Beast Pack just can't be everywhere at once...

 akaean wrote:
This is what bothers me about that list. Eldrad cannot guarantee that he gets invisibility. Sure, you have a decent chance at it if you roll all 3 of your powers on Telepathy, but I would hesitate to call it a good chance, and I wouldn't count on it if you only roll 2 dice- which you need to if you really want Divination Primaris

The power prescience is just gravy, its not required. Eldrad generateds 4 powers, not 3, so he has a 2/3 chance of getting it.
The key here is that the beast pack is still really good without invis. It just goes from good to great with it.

 akaean wrote:
Even if you get invisibility, you seem vulnerable to deep striking / out flanking units which can ignore your cover. Things like Drop Pod Stern Guard, etc.

You roll off 4 powers on the divination chart and go for forewarding. Again, you have a 2/3 chance of getting it.

 akaean wrote:
The army is basically built to let the beast pack soak wounds, and smash the opponents face off. But if the opponent doesn't have just one front, and can apply pressure from multiple angels especially with shooting that ignores invisibility like flamers and special issue ammo... the Beast Pack just can't be everywhere at once...

As I said, you got to play it to understand it. I did not 'get it' when I saw the guy show up at the tourney. I played a list with dual helldrakes, with excellent abilities to 'ignore cover', yet it was not enough.

That's why I mention it as a 'sleeper build'. You don't expect it to be good. Most of the internet says 'but I will counter it with X'.
Its going to take this list winning Adepticon or NOVA for people to say 'Oh, wait, that's horribly broken'.

"Baron - 105

Asdrubael Vect - 240

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL - 200

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL - 200

20 Warriors - 2 splinter cannons, Sybarite - 210

5 Beast masters - 5 kymerra, 8 razorwings - 240

3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons - 56

3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons - 56

Eldrad - 210

3 Guardian jetbikes - 66

3 Guardian jetbikes - 66

Aegis Defense line - quad gun - 100 "

Do you not think you could have a good chanche against it if you played it again? Turn 1 focus fire on the gun (only T7) and pour shots into the beasts or the wytch squad (depends on your ranged weapons and what is most dangerush.) As soon as the flying birds come in you need to burn the razorwings down. They instant death to S6, so you "only" have to burn through 5 khymerra's before the invunerable saves disapear (and even then you can posistion the flyers better for this.)

If course if you start hovering with the dragons the wytches can charge you and throw grenades at things. But they die really easy to bolter fire if you can find a "safe" place among the beats and wytches to shoot at them.

It just seems that S6 flamers would be really good against this list. Flamers inside a transport with a shooting hatch would also be good as he have to charge your tanks to death, very little long ranged weapons.

 Niiai wrote:
Wait...if moving infantery can keep up with the beast pack then there is no real need to keep using the barron. (Well stealth and stealing a turn is nice.) One could do the same thing with an archon with the grenade lacuher as well.

While Vect is cool, I think he is very exspensive,

baron also gives them hit and run


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Wait...if moving infantery can keep up with the beast pack then there is no real need to keep using the barron. (Well stealth and stealing a turn is nice.) One could do the same thing with an archon with the grenade lacuher as well.

Agreed. Look at what the Baron carries
- Shadow Field
- Gernade Launcher
A bare bones archon with that gear costs 115. While the baron only has 2 wounds and 3 attacks, he clocks in 10 points cheaper, before you account for any of his other gear. Point for point, the baron is a beast. What the baron brings to the party is gernades. He can also accept a challange so you can let Vect plow through enemy models.

Beastmasters are characters, so you can challenge a powerful character out like a guard blob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 akaean wrote:
This is what bothers me about that list. Eldrad cannot guarantee that he gets invisibility. Sure, you have a decent chance at it if you roll all 3 of your powers on Telepathy, but I would hesitate to call it a good chance, and I wouldn't count on it if you only roll 2 dice- which you need to if you really want Divination Primaris

The power prescience is just gravy, its not required. Eldrad generateds 4 powers, not 3, so he has a 2/3 chance of getting it.
The key here is that the beast pack is still really good without invis. It just goes from good to great with it.

They already have stealth, 2, 2++ saves and a bunch of characters to LOS wounds around.
In the ADL they will be rocking a 3+ cover save even without invis.