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After reading this article which slams DW armies (http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/02/new-dark-angels-deathwing/) I started wondering what the optimal build for a 5 man unit would be.

I'm generally gearing mine up as
5x DW
- 1x PW/SB
- 1x TH/SS
- 1x Chain Fist/SB
- 1x Assault Cannon/PF
- 1x SB/PF

I feel the Assault Cannon is superior to CML for Deep Striking DW squads. This combination of wargear is relatively light on upgrades but has an answer for every scenario (which i think is necessary if you plan on running pure/relying heavily on DW, and benefits from their special rules like vengeful strike. The only area I feel it is weak is in the inv. saves. The meta is plasma and ROF heavy, both are bad for our boys in bone.

What do you think?

Also, what if you are comparing DW to DWKs?????

Just read the article ... and ya if you want to play a solid competitive wing army your going to have to use double wing or green wing. Personally I'm stacking up all deathwing and deathwing assaulting as many units as I can.

These are my 1250 and 1500 Point Variant Loadouts.


Dark Angels Deathwing 1250 Point Loadout

Belial (Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter & Sword of Silence) – 190 {Attached to the Deathwing Terminator Unit Being Deployed Using Deathwing Assault}

Deathwing Command Squad (5 Deathwing Terminators, Standard of Fortitude, Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 330 {Deployed using Deathwing Assault}

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Power Sword, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Assault Cannon) – 240 {Deployed using Deathwing Assault}

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Power Sword, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 245

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Power Sword, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 245

= 1250

Dark Angels Deathwing 1500 Point Loadout

Belial (Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter & Sword of Silence) – 190 {Attached to the 10 Man Deathwing Unit Being Deployed Using Deathwing Assault}

Deathwing Command Squad (5 Deathwing Terminators, Standard of Fortitude, Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 330 {Deployed Using Deathwing Assault}

10 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Power Sword, 9 Deathwing Terminators, 2 Assault Cannon) – 480 {Deployed using Deathwing Assault}

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Power Sword, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Chain Fist, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 250

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Power Sword, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Chain Fist, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 250

= 1500

I like it .... if they are within the 12" banner (at 1500 points atleast 15 should be) 2+/5+/5+ saves.

It's hard to go wrong with


Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers and adding in a Chain Fist if you have the Points.

Cyclones are always going to be better because you get 2 storm bolters shots at str 4 and 2 krak missile shots at str 8 - vs 4 assault cannon shots str 6 - they have a higher threat range, but they can just fit really weird into a point budget and are pretty $ irl (converted mine from ravenwing typhoon missile launchers - because deathwing just does it bigger)

The Article bashed Belial a good bit and ya his point cost was raised alot .... but he did gain the nonscatter deep striking (combined with 10 terminators packing storm bolters and assault cannons that makes for a awesome first twin-linked turn), being able to precise shot at 5+, and an added fleshbane on sword of silence.

Will a Full Deathwing army be highly competitive at a tournament setting? ... depends on the setting and player but it would most likely be outshined by greenwing or doublewing.


- And to answer the question

Going to break down into 3 groups ... or really close to it.


Theres so many variants of what you can do with Deathwing that you really need to pick a play style then loadout your terminators to suite your needs.

I personally move and shoot my terminators all game and try to keep them out of melee distance until it is a absolute must (and when I have to I try to make it Belial and his unit of 10 Deathwing TDA buddies), while I grind down my opponent with storm bolters and heavy weapon fire.

Everyone with a SB and a AC or CML

You can do the same thing with more survivability by adding the sarge and CML units with a TH / SS for the 3+

Sergeant with LC or TH / SS, 4 TDA with SB and AC or CML - allows the sarge to take challenges or take a few units at a higher I strike when in combat

Or just go full on melee and add in knights to pick out certain choice units. - TH / SS teminators are going to hit harder than knights minus the one around of awesome mode engaged. But Knights with their higher toughness and high I attacks should be amazing for cleaving through anything that doesnt need AP 3 or lower.

Full TH / SS with CML - you can also do this a mix of 3 TH / SS and 2 LC, or vice versa .... some people use a full on 5 LC unit, but I wouldnt advise it.

The Best thing about Deathwing is that its flexible ... figure out your playstyle and how you want to use your terminators then kit them to do that job (in most cases doing the job redundantly works better)




Feel No Pain is just Amazing with Terminators.

Lets just say that it wasn't one of Kirby's finer articles. I think the pure entirely DW army is at best, unadvisable logically, but still possible as a competitive army. I think at higher points levels Land Raiders (taken as HS choices), some Tacticals in drop pods (or to stay pure Venerable Dreads) with locator beacons or Ravenwing contingents will be become pretty much mandatory to be competitive.

As for Termie loadouts, for deep striking teams I wouldn't take CML's or Assault Cannons, I would take something more like HF/PC's to make your points back. Assault Cannons in general are pretty pointless now, the PC seems like a no brainer really. The AC isn't reliable light AT and is mediocre against all infantry except hordes. The PC can handle any infantry, and isn't totally useless against vehicles either. The CML just makes the squad a mediocre threat that only has a small chance of popping a vehicle , as anything else will be a waste of the weapon.

I have not experienced much with them yet but I like specialized squads, each with a purpose. While there's nothing particularly wrong with sprinkling a few SS in each squad and having redundancy, I feel that you fall in the trap of "jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none".

Assuming you're going for 5-man squads, here's how I field them:

Anti-horde: PW sgt, SBs, and CML (optionally you can do HF)

Anti-MEC: TH/SS sgt, LCs, PC

Anti-vehicle/Elites/MCs: all TH/SS, CML (optionally you can keep the CML dude with a SB and add a CF)

All-comer: TH/SS sgt, 1 LC, 1PF, 1CF, 1AC

You can have Belial join the squad you feel has the most critical role depending on the army you're facing. He never leaves home without his SS. Also a level 1 TDA libby with Prescience is a cheap way to have re-rolls to hit on that critical squad as well.

Due to their absurdly high points cost allowing so few models on the board, I think Deathwing is the only non-competitive build of the three wings. Paying so many points for Belial to not scatter is just plain silly, what were they thinking? Having so few models leaves you heavily at the mercy of th dice gods. Too little room for things to go wrong. The only fun build that I run with my beloved Terminators has an SM librarian Gating around with Azrael for twin linked deep strikes starting turn 2.

Ravenwing is a bit more competitive as its not as expensive, but just a bit. It requires finesse play and a couple of the toys like the grenade launchers debuffing targets really helps.

Greenwing puts enough models on the board to be compeitive. The build I am having success with is the LR spam dakka build with 2-3 LR at 1750 just wrecking my opponents face. Few amy lists can deal with 4+ invulnerable on a LR or two or three! I run the Deathwing Knights in a LR for shock and it works very well.

In case you didn't read the DW entry, what you're paying for is TL shooting on the turn you deep strike, in addition to deep striking your entire army on the turn you choose - compared to spending an arm and a leg on a land raider or deep striking on an unknown turn with scatter and sitting there doing nothing for an entire turn with your TH/SS Terminators.

By the way, are you sure you really need a Prescience Libby in your Deathwing list when every model that you deep strike onto the board gets automatically TL shooting? That's almost a hundred points right there.

BTW, Azrael can't deepstrike because he's wearing artificer armor, so I'm not sure why you would put him in a Deathwing build.

 TedNugent wrote:
In case you didn't read the DW entry, what you're paying for is TL shooting on the turn you deep strike, in addition to deep striking your entire army on the turn you choose - compared to spending an arm and a leg on a land raider or deep striking on an unknown turn with scatter and sitting there doing nothing for an entire turn with your TH/SS Terminators.

By the way, are you sure you really need a Prescience Libby in your Deathwing list when every model that you deep strike onto the board gets automatically TL shooting? That's almost a hundred points right there.

BTW, Azrael can't deepstrike because he's wearing artificer armor, so I'm not sure why you would put him in a Deathwing build.

Its 95 points for a Librarian in terminator armor with prescience, that is chump change. You aren't going to be deep striking the same unit every turn are you? That means you can only take advantage of vengeful strike once per game. The libby is not only cheap, but offers game long force multiplication. It's a damn steal. I would never run a DW list without it. Plug that libby in with a 10 strong unit and Belial and that squad will put out twin linked hurt every turn of the game until they die.

Deathwing's competitiveness is unfortunately going to hinge on an FAQ re: DWA.

If you can DWA the whole army, then it'll be competitive. If you have to 50% it, then meh. You might be able to get away with CML squads starting on the board and AC/CF squads DS'ing but...meh. Very meh. Hopefully GW doesn't bone DW too bad with the FAQ (no pun intended).

 TedNugent wrote:
In case you didn't read the DW entry, what you're paying for is TL shooting on the turn you deep strike, in addition to deep striking your entire army on the turn you choose - compared to spending an arm and a leg on a land raider or deep striking on an unknown turn with scatter and sitting there doing nothing for an entire turn with your TH/SS Terminators.

BTW, Azrael can't deepstrike because he's wearing artificer armor, so I'm not sure why you would put him in a Deathwing build.

Azrael would be joining the SM libbie on the board, not deep striking. Gate of Infinity allows anyone with the Librarian to deep strike all over the board - but parking Azrael with a shooty sqad of Terminators allows for auto-twin linking via the vengence rule.

 gpfunk wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
In case you didn't read the DW entry, what you're paying for is TL shooting on the turn you deep strike, in addition to deep striking your entire army on the turn you choose - compared to spending an arm and a leg on a land raider or deep striking on an unknown turn with scatter and sitting there doing nothing for an entire turn with your TH/SS Terminators.

By the way, are you sure you really need a Prescience Libby in your Deathwing list when every model that you deep strike onto the board gets automatically TL shooting? That's almost a hundred points right there.

BTW, Azrael can't deepstrike because he's wearing artificer armor, so I'm not sure why you would put him in a Deathwing build.

Its 95 points for a Librarian in terminator armor with prescience, that is chump change. You aren't going to be deep striking the same unit every turn are you? That means you can only take advantage of vengeful strike once per game. The libby is not only cheap, but offers game long force multiplication. It's a damn steal. I would never run a DW list without it. Plug that libby in with a 10 strong unit and Belial and that squad will put out twin linked hurt every turn of the game until they die.

Interesting but I have a feeling this would eventually get FAQed to only allow vengeful strike on the initial deepstrike. Until that time I will exploit this rule though hahaha.

Lets hope not, this codex leaves very little to the imagination for us to try cool things. My Necrons always have nifty tricks like this one but the DA codex is dry and unimaginative at best. FAQ'ing out hurricane bolters with the devastation banner and nerfing vengence strike to one measly turn would really strip what little creativity/fun this army has to offer.

 Whereswaldo wrote:


- And to answer the question

Going to break down into 3 groups ... or really close to it.


Theres so many variants of what you can do with Deathwing that you really need to pick a play style then loadout your terminators to suite your needs.

I personally move and shoot my terminators all game and try to keep them out of melee distance until it is a absolute must (and when I have to I try to make it Belial and his unit of 10 Deathwing TDA buddies), while I grind down my opponent with storm bolters and heavy weapon fire.

Everyone with a SB and a AC or CML

You can do the same thing with more survivability by adding the sarge and CML units with a TH / SS for the 3+

This is essentially the route I was going. Focus on shooting primarily and use the TH/SS to add survivability to the unit and, along with the Chain Fist, to take AV in CC.

You made great points toward the benefits of the CML vs. the AC. Tough call IMO. I have 3 to 1 AC to CML in my current list. I could make room for the CML if I drop some goodies off each squad (TH/SS or CF upgrade) but I am not convinced that I do not need them yet. I like having the backup.