Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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This is misleading!
The Thread title is Deathwing Assault vs reserves. Why this is still a debate when the choice to Deathwing Assault happens between the 'Roll for Warlord Traits' and 'Roll for Psychic Powers' (p148. RAW) Both of these things happen before deploying forces.
Then you title the Poll 'Does the Deathwing Assault rule override the 50% on the table rule', when no such rule exists anywhere in the BRB.
So following the process:
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Roll for Warlord Trait
-Pick a Terminator Unit that meets the DWA criteria, Do you want to use DWA on selected unit?
-Continue to do this with each Terminator unit until you have declared each unit to either be using or not using DWA.
- This is RAW per the codex. All units may choose to DWA if they meet the criteria listed under DWA. Always doesn't need to be listed here, because there is no rule restricting them to X units affecting them at this stage.
If players have psykers....
It's now time to Deploy forces...
(There are 2 things that happen before deploying forces, so 'After Warlord traits are rolled' is not the same thing as 'At the start of deploying forces')
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Once a unit has been selected for DWA it will arrive by Deep Strike. In order for a unit to be able to 'Deep Strike' they must start the game in reserve. The Deep Strike rule places the unit in reserve, and DWA is the choosing to enter via Deep Strike. When any unit is placed in reserve (by any means), you must inform your opponent that you will be arriving by Deep Strike, which you have already done by choosing to DWA. No mention is made of informing your opponent in the Deep Strike rules that they are arriving by reserve.
When we get to the deploy forces portion. Following the RAW on p.124, when deploying forces (not during deployment which rolling for Warlord traits falls under p.121), players now have the option to not deploy up to 1/2 of the units keeping them as Reserves. Anything prior to this cannot possibly be affected by the 50% rule, because its already in reserve (via Deep Strike) and it isn't in effect until this stage and doesn't affect anything outside of this stage. Flyers are already here so they don't count and a specific mention is made to exempt them because it is a rule that applies to all fliers regardless of codex, and is in place even if the Reserves rule is not in use. The Deep Strike rule also supports DWA because units entering DWA must enter play via Deep Strike. There is no 50% rule in the entire game that blankets all other rules. It's only in effect when the Reserves rule is in use, and only when deploying forces, and that is also the RAW.
What we don't know is IF the units performing DWA, and are already in reserve, count toward the 50% limit when the Dark Angel player deploys the rest of his forces. Our only comparisons are Flyers, which are specifically addressed as not counting, but they aren't under the influence of a Codex Special rule that DW Terminators using DWA. The other rule is Outflank which is generally accepted as counting toward the Reserves limit since it's during deployment (and not when deploying forces), but no mention is made of whether they can do it or not even if the Reserves rule is in use. This is a different debate, and could go either way. Not really an issue since most DA players will be deploying all of them using DWA anyways, since they don't have access to Drop Pods.
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Now the questions you should be asking, which have already been answered in the other thread or through RAW application.
*May Dark Angel Terminators always deploy using Reserves and arrive by Deep Strike? No, they don't have this ability like other codex do. So when deploying your armies, you may choose to keep up to 1/2 of your units as reserves, if you choose a Terminator unit then you may choose to use any rules it has, such as Deep Strike.
*Do DW Terminators using the DWA rule, count toward the 50% limit of what you can keep in reserves when deploying forces? I would lean toward no they don't count. Yes it is a choice to put them there, but the RAW is clear, it happens before deployment (and the 50% thing), and they must enter play by Deep Strike, even if they have/acquire a different means of arriving from reserve. Only an issue for those players who want to play an all Terminator force, and keep 1-2 units off in reserve to come in via the normal means to steal an objective later or have options.
*Can Dark Angel Players use DWA if a mission doesn't use the Reserves rule? I say Yes because it's not subject ot the Reserves rule for deployment purposes when the Reserves rule is in effect. Jeremy Vetock has used the brain in his head, and has allowed Dark Angels to keep the rule that existing Terminators have, and that is to always be able to Deep Strike even in missions that don't allow reserves, he's just clarified that they must do it using DWA instead of just a normal Terminator rule.
*If I choose for the entire army to DWA before deployment, does this mean I automatically get first turn? RAW, no because you haven't gotten to the deploying forces, and as hard as it is believe, you aren't finished deploying your forces till after you deploy your forces and you deploy zero units. Unintended RAI, and I wouldn't have a problem if they errata'd this, I think DA players should auto get first turn, simply so that their opponents won't ever have a turn where they don't have anything to shoot. However, some armies are dependent on moving first turn so they'd love to go first even with nothing to shoot at.
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Here's the funny thing to me about how stupid disallowing them to deploy 50%+ in reserve has gotten. Let's look at it from the perspective that they are somehow affected by the non-existent 50% rule, or that they are actually deployed during the deploy forces portion, and not outside of it.
What does it function like, if you choose to 'deploy' via DWA?? Umm, that would be Drop Pod Assault. It's specifically worded different from Drop Pod Assault, which clearly states that Drop Pod units in Reserve have to deploy 1/2 of them on turn one. This 'In reserve' is intentionally missing from DWA. In order for it to function subject to the 50% rule, without any debate, all the DWA rule would need to say is 'units of DW Terminators in Terminator Armor, in reserve my choose to enter play using Deathwing Assault...' If it said this, then it would be unarguably subject to the 50% rule, it would unarguably be restricted to when the reserves rule is in use, then it would unarguably be played the way some people are trying to act like it is supposed to be this way.
Im fine with it if they errata it to be this way, but it'll be just that, an errata. I don't think it'll happen because the rule is deliberately worded to NOT function like Drop Pod Assault. Dark Angel Players have been waiting for when they would have the top All Terminator army, since the uniqueness of having to play Dark Angels to play an all Term army has long since gone away. Jeremy Vetock has done an outstanding job of putting them back on top. Yes this is an opinion, but it's one I'll stand by. Dark Angels have the best Deep Striking Terminators with guns, we have the best Mace/SS terminators, and we don't have to come in piecemeal like normal Terminators do. Sure we have to pay for it, but that's not any different from what the other Armies have to pay to get their bonuses either.
I've not really posted this on the other thread because some people just can't seem to get around when the 50% thing applies. I've read enough on that thread to have made up my mind on which way the RAW is until they get FAQ'd. I don't particularly care if I persuade anyone or not, but misleading polls and thread titles like this tend to be weighted toward one side, and can cause votes to be misrepresented. If there is an event that sadly disallows all DWA armies, it won't affect me because I have multiple armies to choose from. To those DA players who only have DW armies, which have been few in number till now, have finally been given the army book with rules they've been waiting for, only to get shafted by people who are afraid to play an all DWA army. To more experienced players, this is no different than the old Lysdander-wing, where all the Terminator units came in on the same turn. True that it didn't happen till turn 2-3. In 6th ed, where 1st turn assaults are possible, and games can end on turn 5, this is not completely out of line!
Said my peace on this. I probably won't be watching this thread so PM for 'friendly' continued discussion, but regardless of how this weighted poll turns out, it doesn't change the RAW allowing them to all use DWA, until it get's errata'd.
-Akar
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