Dust Tactics Legal action from Dust studios against Battlefront?

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**Vertrucio**

Major Malfunction wrote:

I could upload it and the Battlebois would just say that it's a fake. Some people would never be happy. It's almost like they are on the Battlefront payroll or something.

I believe you more, but remember you're still just another guy on the internet yelling, "Believe me!" Just as much as anyone.

And, you've adopted a pretty biased tone overall, especially in calling anyone who dares to question what's going on as "battlebois." So, your assessment of the tone of the phone call is questionable. You give Battlefront gak for going to the public, but not Dust for starting the whole thing?

It's important to note here too that I particularly don't care who is right in this case, I just know that not a damn single one of us in this thread actually know the truth about what's going on because all of the facts are locked away behind legal action. Calling into question what's going on and getting more in depth confirmation is kind of my point. You may not like the fact that I questioned the veracity of your statements, but isn't that exactly what this thread is about, finding the truth instead of relying on random rumors? We started multiple rumor tracking threads on this board for a reason.

Saying any people that question are some kind of battleboi is pretty much exactly the kind of crazy fan behavior that I could assign a silly name to too.

**Duncan_Idaho**

Actually 1 or 2 in this thread do know quite a lot about it, but not all. But for good (legal) reasons keep their trap shut about the details and more or less try to calm people down.

**Major Malfunction**

Vertrucio wrote:

I believe you more, but remember you're still just another guy on the internet yelling, "Believe me!" Just as much as anyone.

And, you've adopted a pretty biased tone overall, especially in calling anyone who dares to question what's going on as "battlebois." So, your assessment of the tone of the phone call is questionable. You give Battlefront gak for going to the public, but not Dust for starting the whole thing?

It's important to note here too that I particularly don't care who is right in this case, I just know that not a damn single one of us in this thread actually know the truth about what's going on because all of the facts are locked away behind legal action. Calling into question what's going on and getting more in depth confirmation is kind of my point. You may not like the fact that I questioned the veracity of your statements, but isn't that exactly what this thread is about, finding the truth instead of relying on random rumors? We started multiple rumor tracking threads on this board for a reason.

Saying any people that question are some kind of battleboi is pretty much exactly the kind of crazy fan behavior that I could assign a silly name to too.

I will preface this rant with the statement that I have made all along and have never EVER tried to hide: I count Paolo Parente as a friend, I am 100% biased, and think Battlefront is in the wrong. The term "Battleboi" is only reserved for unashamed Battlefront apologists who ignore or purposefully obfuscate the fault that lays with Battlefront in this Kickstarter. I'd never call anyone who questions claims anything but "intelligent". You SHOULD question everything... including statements by Battlefront.

Here are some facts:

1. There has been at least one Battlefront employee posting in this thread attempting to conduct damage control, root for their team or whatever that have not identified themselves as such.

2. A Battlefront employee called me attempting to smooth over the fact that retail outlets that have Battlefront accounts have received items that backers have not yet received. That employee had information directly from this thread.

3. Battlefront is responsible for the order taking, book keeping and delivery of the Kickstarter items as well as being the legal entity that opened the Kickstarter project and received the funds from the Kickstarter. They are legally on the hook in the US for delivery of the goods or issuing refunds. Period, full stop, no qualifiers.

So there you have it. It's been nearly a month since I got a phone call apologizing for the delay, asking for patience and promising me the stuff that Battlefront PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED HAD ALREADY BEEN DELIVERED. I still don't have it, but I can still buy it from Noble Knight for 10% off my Kickstarter pledge.

**SeanDrake**

Dead game is dead.

Wayland look to be off loading all there stock at 50% off with what looks like all out of stock stuff going unavailable. Which is pretty much what happened with Heavy Gear.

My local game store while not a massive stockist also sold there stock off at 40% off.

I guess it's one way of turning pretty much all of.the items into kickstarter exclusives.☺

Should also ensure Palo has plenty of free time and leeway to sell massively overpriced stuff on his website.

**Guildsman**

I should add that I've seen a similar trend at my local store. It used to carry a healthy stock of Dust products, but as of last week that stock was gone and the shelf space given to other games.

**Shotgun**

The warstore is also running a 50% off on Dust right now

**warboss**

My local store is as well but they boat a truckload (literally) when FFG had their 75% off sale and they're passing on the savings at least partly. Ironically, the super sale has actually created a small game scene amongst the bolt action crowd where none existed previously for Dust.

**totalfailure**

Just anecdotally, the same happened at one FLGS that carried Dust - came in one day, every last Dust item from what had been a pretty full 4' section was gone and replaced with other games...this was after FFG and before the Kickstarter issues.

**em_en_oh_pee**

SeanDrake wrote:
Dead game is dead.

My LGS was a veritable hub for Warfare. Big stock, tons and tons of players. Those days are long-gone. Most places are liquidating their stocks and I can see why. I haven't been in the Dust scene for a while, but out of morbid curiosity I took at look and whew... what a mess!

Glad I bugged out when I did. Seems my "doom and gloom" prospects weren't far off the mark.

A shame too, because Warfare was such a great game.

**Necros**

I always liked the models but also glad I got out when I did. Though now might be a good time to try and get a few for some AdMech conversions

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

Annnnd it looks like BF is officially out of the picture, with Dust Studios planning on taking over distribution and setting up a distribution hub in the US over the summer. https://www.facebook.com/groups/303941853917/permalink/10152910819223918/

~Tim?

**Sining**

Who's going to finish shipping the KS?

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Hopefully Dust Studios could do it, seeing as they claimed to have the models, didn't they? It's cost 'em a lot of shipping money but win 'em a lot of goodwill. Who knows, really?

**MaxT**

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Annnnd it looks like BF is officially out of the picture, with Dust Studios planning on taking over distribution and setting up a distribution hub in the US over the summer. https://www.facebook.com/groups/303941853917/permalink/10152910819223918/

~Tim?

For those of us without facetwit, what's it say?

**Ernster**

I wonder if that means the KS backers are SOL?

**em_en_oh_pee**

By far the worst thing to befall Dust was when Paolo moved to Battlefront. I can't help but wonder at what could have been, especially with X-Wing being such a big success. Poor Dust Warfare. Fans can only do so much to make a game work and Paolo hates it, so I can imagine that is just over and done now too.

A shame.

**Dez**

It's very frustrating, because it's a great game and background. I think BF was on the right path with it....

**em_en_oh_pee**

Dez wrote:
It's very frustrating, because it's a great game and background. I think BF was on the right path with it....

Having worked with the FFG team on Dust Warfare, I know how committed they were to a tight, balanced game and how responsive they were with questions (rules, especially). Battlefront never, ever seemed to project the same level of care. Plus, they shoved out Battlefield option to undercut Warfare (allegedly over licensing stuff or some such).

I agree though, I loved Dust. I sank hundreds of hours into it, a website for it, and playtesting and whatnot. It was brilliant! Then Paolo, who announced his dislike of Warfare, took it with him to BF where things just fell apart. Public playtest, bad communication, Kickstarter fiasco, and now they basically pushed Warfare off onto fans. All very disappointing.

**warboss**

You sold your stuff for the most part a while back, right? I ask only because I vaguely remember posting in that thread that I thought (incorrectly) that 15mm Dust would be coming out soon. Unfortunately, the actual future was even dimmer than that prediction.

**em_en_oh_pee**

warboss wrote:
You sold your stuff for the most part a while back, right? I ask only because I vaguely remember posting in that thread that I thought (incorrectly) that 15mm Dust would be coming out soon. Unfortunately, the actual future was even dimmer than that prediction.

Yup. Dumped it all a long while ago. Same time I shut down Dust-War. Just had to call it quits and, at the time, was denounced for my "doom and gloom" predictions. I hate being right. :/

**Shotgun**

Looking at the FB feed and not seeing anything associated with BF being out. Only Dust saying Dust is alive.

**Guildsman**

Shotgun wrote:
Looking at the FB feed and not seeing anything associated with BF being out. Only Dust saying Dust is alive.

Which, unfortunately, means very little if the interest in the game has dried up.

I asked an employee at my FLGS (which I posted about above) about why their Dust stock was gone. He told me, plainly, that it just wasn't selling. It sat, and sat, and sat, so they ended up putting it all on clearance and getting rid of it. And these guys are branching into as many game lines as possible.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Shotgun wrote:
Looking at the FB feed and not seeing anything associated with BF being out. Only Dust saying Dust is alive.

One of the posts is from Paolo saying Dust will be setting up their own US office to deal with distribution, which is one of the things BF should be doing, so suggesting they are out (but not proving it)

**Shotgun**

Rereading, I did see that. I also saw that he stated they will be at GenCon.

Unfortunately in all this "he said, she said" stuff, the one solid piece of evidence I have taken as truth is that Paolo may be the vision of Dust, he isn't the Voice and GenCon is a long time away.

There is still a Dust link on the FoW website, so saying that BF is out, or that Dust will do their own distribution seems more a goal than reality.

**angryboy2k**

Dust Studios in private email wrote:
Dear Babylon Kickstarter Backer,

We are heartbroken to send you this message: Battlefront refuses to pay the amount due for the so called “Wave 2” of the Babylon Kickstarter campaign and therefore Dust Studio cannot deliver the items to Battlefront for distribution.

After four weeks of negotiations we still have not received a purchase order or a payment, regardless of our final and generous discount offer on the debated freebies.

During these four weeks Dust Studio has been bullied and blackmailed instead, with
Battlefront demanding the impossible from us in order for them to fulfill their obligations! They have asked us to pay them for editing and graphic design work their staff did on our rulebook, demanding a fee of over US $100,000.00.
They have requested we buy back their Dust stock — the stock that was eventually paid for to the factoring bank precisely with the revenue from the Babylon Campaign KS!

Battlefront is holding your money hostage, attempting to force us into an unbearable position and capitulate.

Please accept our apologies but we cannot accept any further humiliation. Our brand has been dragged through the mud and our reputation seriously damaged. Enough is enough!

Dust Studio has manufactured all the units listed as “Wave 2” in good faith but cannot afford nor are we willing to pay for jobs that Battlefront was never hired for in the first place, or for stock of products that have been discounted on the market for the past six months. These issues have nothing to do with the Kickstarter!

Being in breach of both our distribution and the Kickstarter agreements, Battlefront has been notified that our business relationship is officially ended.

What happens next? Why are you receiving this letter? A follow-on offer of how to receive the products you ordered will be published Sunday, May 17. In the meantime we strongly suggest that you contact your credit card company and ask for a full refund.

Please accept our most sincere apologies. And thank you for your continued patience and support.

Dust Studio Team

NB: This letter will be published on our official Facebook page Sunday, May 10.

So there we go. All backers have officially been fethed. Will Battlefront see fit to refund any money? It seems very unlikely as they've ignored all such requests so far, and as it's been so long since this mess started, most people will have difficulty filing chargebacks with their banks.

Meantime, I'd also like to take the opportunity to say thanks to Paolo and co. for knowingly risking backers' money with these clowns and teaming up with a distributor who was clearly fething useless and had thousands of dollars' worth of debt.

**Dez**

I won't support either company again.

**warboss**

If that is the case and battlefront confirms the end result above (although with their own spin on the causes), that is a sad result for frankly one of the more "sure fire" kickstarters I've ever seen in the hobby. That thing looked more like a blatant preorder even compared with other ones since you were mainly getting existing products/models and involved big names in the industry instead of mom and pop startups. I don't know if Dust Studios will try to allow KS backers to purchase at cost from their new distrobution hub but frankly they don't have access to the KS emails which means they have no way of knowing exactly who ordered what. Factor into that the fact that existing dust stuff is still effectively available at retailer cost (50% off) via continuing sales.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

There was all kinds of weird writing on the wall that people knowingly ignored. I am probably one of the biggest Dust fans on DakkaDakka, having spent thousands on the game over the years, and running the only local community in my entire region. Even with my level of compulsive fandom, this KS terrified me right out of backing it when more information on supposedly "possible" stretch-goals were released as readily available information retailers already had in their solicitation systems.

Bottom line, Battlefront was knowingly abusing Kickstarter, pre-selling products which they were concurrently selling as stock to retailers, at an even better rate than the backers which were supposedly enabling said models' creation.

And Paolo... well, he's always been a talented guy, but a horrible business-man. In reality the game "died" when he lost the technical support of Fantasy Flight.

I feel badly though that this is how Dust loses its fanbase and dignity. Many, many, amazing games die on the vine because players don't find it in a volume needed to create a community, but there is a special place in gaming hell for games which die aggressive, writhing deaths.

Luckily, if you snagged the VERY hard to come by Version 2 rulebook and cards from Battlefront, the game is frozen forever in a very fun, very balanced state. :-)

**RivenSkull**

Damn. Well that sucks for backers. Those are the only people I feel bad for.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dust Studio's sues Battlefront over this, especially if Battlefront used the funds for things not related to the Kickstarter. I also wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of Dust. After this

storm, retailers and buys will probably stay as far away from Dust as possible; as seen by retailers selling stock at clearance prices. And I honestly don't feel bad for Paulo in any way. He had a nice thing with FFG going, the rules looked solid, but because he didn't like the way the game was going took his business elsewhere.

**warboss**

Is the version 2 rulebook available in a digital format (whether official or not)?