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So, I've tried out running a mech list a couple of times recently, taking my foot+russ list and turning it into a mech+russ version.

It's been doing all right, but I'd like to make a change in things, culling some of the stuff I've found less useful in an attempt to try out new stuff. The problem is that I'm sort of stuck, and I'm not savvy enough in mech guard to see the obvious out.

So far, what I have is...


Lord Commissar - plasma pistol, power fist

Veterans - plasma pistol, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs
Veterans - plasma pistol, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs
Veterans - plasma pistol, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs
Veterans - plasma pistol, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs

Vanquisher - lascannon

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas

... which leaves me with 125 points left

I've got several options to mull over.

A.) Give the vet squads lascannons, give the lone vanquisher pask. This would basically be plugging back in what I took out.

B.) Dropping the plasma pistols too and turning the whole bag of points into a demolisher. Not quite sold on splatcannon russes at the moment, and this puts out, by far, the worst firepower. It WOULD be a sixth russ, though...

C.) Add a hellhound. Would give me some more anti-infantry, but I'd never be able to afford a multimelta, without which I don't see very much point to hellhounds.

D.) Upgrade the lone vanquisher to a punisher, and give it multimelta sponsons. The remaining 70 points goes into... Marbo? A ton of heavy stubbers?

E.) Add a devil dog. I'm not terribly impressed with this, though, and once again, no multimelta...

F.) Add 3x scout sentinels with multilaser and autocannons. Once again, I don't know what this is really adding.

G.) Upgrade the lord commissar to commissar yarrick, give the vanquisher sponson multimeltas. Would basically be my way of saying screw it all.

H.) Upgrade lone vanquisher to punisher, add multimeltas, add Pask. The king of tanks as far as I'm concerned. Kind of pricey, though...

I.) Upgrade lone vanquisher to deathstorm executioner. I'm slowly, slowly starting to see the usefulness of this tank. Still hella expensive, and not good against vehicles either...

J.) Something else. Well, something else not a vendetta, which I'm not going to take.

The problem is that this is an awkward points amount for me to spend. It's not enough to really throw points at something new, but it's also not enough points to fritter away on weapon upgrades either...

what i think...
make sure you post your final list
1- Drop the lord commissar and out in a CCS. Gear this squad for CQC for instance: Straken, Kell, Nork, Medi-pack, 2 meltas and may be Carapace armour. (mind you this is way to expensive its something like 300something points)
2- ADL with Quad cannon?
3- i liked the Yarrick idea but he needs some thing CQC to join...
4- so many Vanquishers... do you really need that many?
5- Colossus???
6- punisher idea sounds ok(with pask)... might be able to try and use it on a flyer
7- where is MARBO

I think you should ditch the lord commissar and bring in a CCS as well.

CCS - 4x melta, chimera

vets - 3x melta, chimera
vets - 3x melta, chimera
vets - 3x melta, chimera
vets - 3x melta, chimera

Vanquisher - lascannon

Vanquisher - multimeltas
Vanquisher - multimeltas

Vanquisher - multimeltas
Vanquisher - multimeltas

Which leaves you 175 left over which i would use for carapace but alternatively you could re-equip the lascannons and put pask into the lone vanquisher and give it multi-melta sponsons and still have some points left over to add a fist to the CCS and some other stuff

The problem with the CCS, actually, is the models. I just don't have the chimeras to pull that off yet. Plus, the lord commissar isn't that bad.

The point of the vanquishers is because my opponents smartly bring a lot of heavy vehicles. Necron AV13 spam, for example, is pretty difficult to deal with without lascannons and the like.

How about dropping the solo Vanquisher, adding a pair of Griffons (or Manticore) and upgrading all the meltavets to plasvets?

With 4 Vanquishers, long range AT firepower is more then sufficient, so I don't think you really need meltaguns to break more heavy armour. Mass plasmaguns give you heavy mid-range fire to supplement the Russes.

An artillery piece (or two) give hitting power against infantry either hiding out of LOS or behind an Aegis. It also gives sniping ability against opposing lascannons/heavy weapons. I like paired Griffons, but a Manticore or Colossus also fits here.

Since your Chimeras are armed w/ double heavy bolter, I assume you're keeping them stationary most of the time. Taking an Aegis defense line of your own lets you gunline with all your armor, with a 4+ cover to supplement the AV14 and AV12 tanks.

Lord Commissar

4x Veterans w/ 3x Plasmagun + Chimera w/ 2x Heavy Bolter

2x Vanquisher w/ Lascannon and Multimelta Sponsons
2x Vanquisher w/ Lascannon and Multimelta Sponsons
2x Griffon w/ Heavy Bolter

Aegis Defense Line w/ QuadCannon


- Vanquishers to engage most everything at range, Griffons to snipe opposing critical models (can also snap fire their heavy bolters), Chimeras as fire support, PlasVets as fire support and heavy close range last ditch volleys.

- Park behind the Aegis in defensive setup, or leave it to the side and straight advance if you need to be somewhere instead. QuadCannon isn't essential, but it's not too bad to have.

- Also think that CCS is a better choice here as you can field the Plasvets dismounted and have them jack in the box behind the Aegis as needed. 3x Plasmagun + Flag would be my suggestion.

I would go missiles OE las cannon foe you vets... Must me, but never pass on the cheap heavy weapons... I do think at some point a screen might be good to have as well...

The Lord Commisar doesn't do anything for a Mech list.

If you have you guys outside their vehicles then they are going to get obliterated. That is why they have Chimeras and you can fire their special weapons out the top.

Drop the Plasma Pistols on your Vet Squad Sergeants to free up some more points. They just aren't worth the cost in a Mech list.
Also with my Mech I tend to run half Meltaguns and half Plasma guns. Up to you but provides a little more diversity.

You def should drop in a ADL with Quad Gun, especially if playing against Necron's. The Quad Gun will give you Skyfire and Interceptor.

You also should find a way to work MARBO in. For 65 points he is def worth bringing. Provided you aren't dice cursed like I am

I'm gonna second cappizzano and say get a ADL just to have AA because as of now you really have none.

I'm gonna second cappizzano and say get a ADL just to have AA because as of now you really have none.

I believe Ailaros has a different philosophy than most when it comes to AA. Here is a quote I remembered Ailaros saying a little while back which resonated with me:

I've been mildly annoyed by fliers. Never anything close to fear or loathing. Nowadays, I just pack my lists full of meltaguns and lascannons. Fliers are hard to hit, but when you bring a HUGE pile of anti-tank wepaons, you'll hit with 6's eventually, and when you do, fliers go down just like any other vehicle.

I think he has sufficient weapons to take down anything, fliers included.

Like many other people have suggested, finding the points for Marbo isn't a bad idea. I know he's not a favourite to many people, but he does add a certain dynamic and psychological element to a list. Also an ordinance battery could add something to your list; a few cheap griffons are useful, throw-away vehicles. Hell, your opponent might even be silly enough to target those and you can get on with winnings the game with the rest of your army.

You seem to come up against a lot of skimmers and flyers, maybe taking out the lone vanquishers and adding 3 Hydras wouldn't be a bad idea, its a squadron so it takes forever to kill and with all those autocannons even shooting at AV13 wont matter too much which leaves you with 70pts to spend on MARBO! and then chuck the last 5pts somewhere else

Also I want to know why you choose to use the heavy bolters on the chimeras instead of the multilasers?

Right, as for AA, I already have a thesis for this.

As for the heavy weapons, I'm kind of torn on them. On the one hand, if I'm going to keep them, then I'm going to keep them as lascannons as, as far as I'm concerned, they're the only serious heavy weapon available to the squads. Although, for 20 points I could throw around some mortars...

On the other hand, if I take them out then, as said, I'm losing out on cheap firepower. 80 points for 4 BS4 lascannons is a STEAL. The problem, of course, is that I'm moving them around. Unlike foot, where some of the guys can advance and the lascannon can stay still, I don't have this luxury.

But if I remove them, then I've got to put something back in their place that can handle our resident gunline and necron AV13 wall player. There are land raiders and russes about. If I lose the lascannons, I sort of feel like I need something to replace them... but what?

As for the lord commissar, on the contrary, I've already found him very useful. I've gotten, or nearly gotten, my lord commissar into close combat with a WS5 powerfist into every game I've played with him in a chimera so far. Also, I've used not only his leadership, but his aura of discipline on de-meched units every game. The same thing could happen with a standard, but then I'd need to find another chimera for a CCS. I'm certainly becoming tempted by the idea of a plasma murder CCS squad, though.

As for the chimera, the multilaser is only better than the heavy bolter at things that the multilaser is terrible against. Plus, we now live in a world of focus fire, etc.

As for the plasma pistols, I'm halfway tempted to double down on this. BS4 plasma pistols are pretty good, and they work well with the overall plan due to overwatch.

The chimera drives up, and the sarge plasma pistols something. Then the enemy charges in, and I plasma pistol overwatch. Then the sarge exits the ruins of his transport and shoots with a plasma pistol. Then he gets to shoot plasma overwatch again. That's a lot of chances for it to be used. So far, my ~50 points worth of plasma pistols have made their points back every game, and TWICE plasma pistol overwatch caused a charge to fail where otherwise it would have succeeded thanks to casualties caused by a plasma pistol.

As for the russes, I'm also vascillating. I could possibly see pask put back in with a punisher. I could possibly see my first foray into the world of executioners. The problem is that I'm having a hard time striking my firepower balance for some reason, and I'm still pretty new with mech lists, so I don't have a nuanced enough understanding of my strengths and weaknesses to be able to adjust my lists accordingly.

Perhaps if I better knew what I wanted out of my mech lists, It would be a lot easier for me to build one.

 Ailaros wrote:

Vanquisher - lascannon

I like the list, but this seems to be an outlier. Do you need this extra Vanquisher? You already have quite a large amount of anti-tank, maybe this could be a punisher or some artillery. You already mentioned the Executioner (which I do indeed like, especially in a 1850pts list where you have space for a 230pt tank).
The executioner can take on a multi-role of popping transports. It's incredibly inefficient at it, but when there's nothing else to shoot at, there's nothing else to shoot at.
I'd also drop the Lord Commissar's plasma pistol. It could be moved to giving a Vet Sergeant gun-slinger plasma or even just play around points. It's not a big deal I just don't feel like it's worth it.

Here's an outside the box thought - how did you like outflanking in your most recent bat rep? Would Harker be a worth while investment to ensure this every game? Slap a camo-cloak on the Lord Commissar and you can use that neat (albeit dangerous) old trick of tanking with a Lord Commissar. It's just whether you think 55pts is worth outflank...

Where are the Vendettas and Manticores.... and Marbo.

I also prefer plasma guns over melta right now. I guess that's because I have Manticores and Vendettas fro anti-tank duty!

 Ailaros wrote:
As for the plasma pistols, I'm halfway tempted to double down on this. BS4 plasma pistols are pretty good, and they work well with the overall plan due to overwatch.

Do this. Either go with dual pistols (effectively giving you the 4th plasma gun in the unit) or none at all.


Also, you need Vultures. You have no anti-horde at all, you'll murder vehicles and disembarked MEQs but you've overloaded on melta (and long-range "melta") and have nothing with blasts or decent volume of fire. Since you want to keep your Vanquisher battery that means you have only one choice: punisher cannon Vultures. Alternatively you can drop a Vanquisher squad or two and bring some Medusas/Demolishers/Colossus/Manticores, but then you're going to need to bring the hated Vendettas as anti-tank to replace them.

So, I'm not actually all that worried about anti-horde, actually. If you round up all of my vanquisher cannons, lascannons, plasma pistols, and melta of various sorts, you get 35 guns that provide no armor saves, and wound any infantry model on a 2+. Much of it is BS4 to boot. Assuming everything in range and no cover, it has a hypothetical max average of 17 models per turn. That IS an anti-horde weapon.

Plus, then you add on a handful of BS4 lasguns and some chimera heavy bolters and some competency in close combat, and I'm not honestly that worried about hordes. Especially what with what 6th ed did to assault armies and, to a lesser extent, foot lists in general.

That said, I'm not necessarily averse to the idea of a punisher cannon. It would be more for handling dreadknights and terminators than for hordes, though.

And the plasma pistol lord commissar is great. He is guaranteed to hit SOMEONE every time he fires, and with multiple wounds, he can absorb overheats. I'd make the lord commissar a gunslinger, except that I've found, shockingly, that I'm making it into an awful lot of close combats now that he has a ride.

As for artillery, I guess I kind of feel uncomfortable lightening up my russ pool, and I'm not necessarily certain that a pair of medusas would be the best option going forward.

Harker... now THAT's an interesting idea, actually. A VERY interesting idea.

So, let's say that I wind up with something like...


Lord Commissar - plasma pistol, power fist, carapace

Veterans - 2x plasma pistols, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs
Veterans - 2x plasma pistols, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs
Veterans - 2x plasma pistols, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, 2x HBs
Veterans - Harker, 3x meltaguns
- chimera, multilaser, heavy flamer

Punisher - 3x heavy bolters

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas


... hmm...

 Ailaros wrote:
So, I'm not actually all that worried about anti-horde, actually. If you round up all of my vanquisher cannons, lascannons, plasma pistols, and melta of various sorts, you get 35 guns that provide no armor saves, and wound any infantry model on a 2+. Much of it is BS4 to boot. Assuming everything in range and no cover, it has a hypothetical max average of 17 models per turn. That IS an anti-horde weapon.

Three problems here:

1) Most of that shooting is limited to 12" range. That's not going to be very much help when your opponent has a blob squad camped on an objective behind an aegis line.

2) You can't assume no cover. Even 5+ cover takes you down to 11.3 models, and combined with the range factor that's just terrible.

3) While you're forced to spend vanquishers on killing guardsmen (because otherwise you don't have enough shooting to even dent them) you're NOT shooting at their tanks. On the other hand, if you're using your anti-tank weapons against other targets you no longer have that "counter" to hordes. For example, imagine playing against one of your own foot + AV 14 lists. You must spend your tanks on shooting your opponent's tanks, and then you no longer have enough firepower left to kill the objective holders before the game ends.


Now, imagine if you had a Vulture available. With TL punisher cannons you're killing 11 guardsmen a turn, which (counting cover) doubles your anti-infantry shooting. And you can get one for less than the price of one of your LC/MM Vanquishers, so the impact on your ability to kill tanks is going to be pretty minimal.

As for artillery, I guess I kind of feel uncomfortable lightening up my russ pool, and I'm not necessarily certain that a pair of medusas would be the best option going forward.

Remember, you're playing mech IG now and no longer as dependent on AV 14 to keep your few vehicles safe from anti-tank threats. AV 12 saturation is your friend, 4x Chimeras + 3x Medusas in heavy + 3x Vultures in fast = 10 must-kill threats, even without squadrons.

Now, this isn't necessarily the best plan, Leman Russes can still be good in mech lists. But AV 12 on your heavy support is no longer the crippling flaw it was with your foot lists, and you should consider your artillery options.

Peregrine wrote:Three problems here

Even assuming these, I've still got an anti-horde weapon. Especially when you consider force concentration problems of hordes.

I'm not saying that a huge pile of meltaguns and lascannons is better than a punisher cannon against hordes. I'm saying that said huge pile is good enough against hordes that I don't NEED a punisher cannon to handle hordes.

Peregrine wrote:But AV 12 on your heavy support is no longer the crippling flaw it was with your foot lists, and you should consider your artillery options.

I suppose.

The other problem I have with them, though, is that they're single-shot large blast. My thesis for handling monstrous creatures and terminators and fliers is to just throw a ton of good shots at them. Medusas are only putting down one shot, and can't even target fliers. They'd help against terminators, sure, but I could use other weapons for that that can also handle other stuff.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm not saying that a huge pile of meltaguns and lascannons is better than a punisher cannon against hordes. I'm saying that said huge pile is good enough against hordes that I don't NEED a punisher cannon to handle hordes.

But that huge pile isn't good enough. Look at the numbers. If you somehow get all of those guns into range of an IG blob squad camping on an objective you're only killing 11 guardsmen per turn (8.5 if they're behind an aegis line, and only 2.8 if they go to ground behind it), which means once you finally get within range you're going to take at least 3-4 turns to kill that single objective holder. And of course if you have to spend any of those shots on their primary targets (vehicles) you don't have anything left for infantry. Since you're depending on concentrating a lot of bad anti-infantry units onto a single target just to get adequate performance you're quickly going to fall short of even adequate performance if you have to spend those units on anything else.

This isn't just math, by the way, I'm speaking from experience here. If you load up every single unit with melta and don't bring anything else you WILL fall short when your opponent is anything other than another mech list. Adding a punisher cannon Vulture or two made a big difference (especially in combination with Medusas and Avengers in heavy) and IMO the Vulture is even more mandatory than Vendettas in mech IG.

PS: if you're worried about losing anti-tank by tanking anti-horde a Vulture that uses vector dancer to swing around and get into rear armor averages 6 HP per turn against AV 10. And with 20 twin-linked shots to minimize the impact of luck you aren't going to find a more reliable anti-tank unit.

The other problem I have with them, though, is that they're single-shot large blast. My thesis for handling monstrous creatures and terminators and fliers is to just throw a ton of good shots at them. Medusas are only putting down one shot, and can't even target fliers. They'd help against terminators, sure, but I could use other weapons for that that can also handle other stuff.

So what? You have anti-MC in your troops, especially if you trade any of that melta for plasma and/or add flyers. And Medusas eat terminators better than pretty much everything that isn't a 4x plasma CCS.

And of course the flyer problem is best solved by your own flyers. This is why Vendettas are so important, they give you anti-MC, anti-tank, and anti-flyer in one nice absurdly cheap package. Similarly, an Avenger is decent AA while also giving a lot of anti-horde/anti-tank/anti-MC, and Vultures eat any flyer that doesn't have AV 12 on the back.

A few things...I've been playing Mech IG for a while. I know you will probably disagree with these...

Drop the turret Heavy Bolters for Multilasers. Multilasers > Heavy Bolters. Better against vehicles, things with high T, and things a save better than 4+.

Swap Lord Commissar for a Company Command Squad with 4 Plasma Gun and a Plasma Pistol. If using Al Rahem, add an Astropath here for the outflank reroll.



To break up the parking lot, you might consider swapping a couple of the Vet squads for a mechanized Infantry Platoon w/ Al Rahem. I used to run it as: PCS w/ Al Rahem & 4 Melta Guns in Chimera, 2x IS w/ Melta Guns in Chimeras. Weighs in at around 355 IIRC. This lets you break up your parking lot a bit and gain some enemy-table-edge maneuverability. As an added bonus, Al Rahem's BiD can make those IS Melta Guns actually useful...

I am for you adding in a Demolisher. In my IG list I have had a lot of success with running two demolishers. The cannon is an excellent source of Anti-Everything ground based and it is a ton of fun to throw out demolisher cannon rounds.

I guess the only other thing I have to say is that I am said that the reigning king of foot guard is stepping down.

You don't seem too worried about winning games, so how about adding back some of the stormtroopers you loved fielding a while back?

I'd drop one of the AV 14 hulls to get the points. In you last reports there has been some instances where the game was more or less over before it started simply because your opponent didn't bring enough AT. I think one less AV 14 hull would increase the "funfactor" of your army!

Besides I felt the main problem with you stormtroopers before were that they were the main threat of you army. Not so anymore with 4 multi-melta-las-vanqs and hardhitting veterans in chimeras on the table!