Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i noticed from a few other posts that i am certainly not alone in playing Battlegroup Kursk, so i was wondering what peoples experiences of it so far have been, what armies they play, any house rules they may be using etc.

Personally i play with a couple of friends at 15mm and 750 points, we find that with the scenery heavy boards we prefer that 750 games are still taking three plus hours so not sure we really want to move up on the points scale. Also 15mm allows us to play quite happily on a 6x4 board.

I play soviets, generally using the Tank list for general or attacking scenarios and falling back on infantry lists for defending (mainly because you get access to much more interesting defenses and dug in KV-1s are really hard for the enemy to shift). I have played quite a few games so far and have actually yet to loose with the Russians, come close to it a few times but still win, have however heard that i am somewhat bucking the trend and that generally the Germans are the better side. I also have a lot of love for the good old T34 that seems faster then superman with its special rules, many a game i have one by just blasting past a German line and exposing the flanks. In my next game i am actually trying the full 10 tank t-34 company.

So the rules themselves are by far the best WW2 set i have played, certainly having the most fun with them. Other rule sets i have tried would be FOW, Rapid Fire, Blitzkrieg Commander and Bolt Action. I love the chit system, i like that it brings a definite end to a game, no more playing for hours to end up in an unsatisfying draw, also love random elements even though its meant in the last couple of games i have lost two vehicles to mine strikes and ammo low chits and wicked rolling on my opponents side. About the only obscure game we had was were we kept drawing air attack tokens one after the other, led to a rather surreal game, and a quick house rule that planes can attack each other.

I also like how arty works, its not all powerful, most lighter pieces have trouble even pinning infantry yet at the same time its worth while because just occasionally it can be devastating (memories of rolling five six's on a off table rocket strike), the balance seems just right, as it does over the game in general.

About the only gripe comes from my German opponents who moan about how much of there army is 'restricted' meaning they can rarely field all they want to, what are other German players experience of this? is it to limiting or just again a good way to enforce a sense of balance?

As for house rules we have the normal lot to cover certain scenery but otherwise we allow a stationary infantry unit in the open to 'hunker down' and basically count as in light cover, so they become obscured in terms of spotting and gain a 5+ cover save as opposed to the usual 6+... so far its made little difference but just something we liked to put in.

So anyhow, would like to see what other people are making of the rules, armies they are doing and any problems they might be encountering

Have you joined the Battlgroup forum?

www.guildwargamers.com

Alot of discussion there, and both myself and Warwick are very active there.

'Restricted' items are not really that much about play balance but to force the historical level of availability on a player. Im glad they are moaning that they cant field what they want... Thats the whole point! They will have to learn to make do with the resources available, not their favourite beardy army list! Bit like a real commander!

Not alot more I can say as I work on the system with Warwick.

Can Battlegroup Kursk be played with any scale? Is it 15 mm specific or can i use my 20 mm?

Are the rules elegant enough to shift the setting?

Could they be used for a Modern setting?

Its designed for 15mm and 20mm. Though we play in 20mm... and 6mm.

We will be covering other settings at some point...

BGK is my first WWII game and 2nd historical - if you count the Force on Force supplements.

I've put together both a 15mm German force - suitable to do double duty in Kursk and Normandy, as well as a Russian force for Kursk. Thanks to PSC including entire spare turrets with 85mm guns in their T34 kit, I also have a good core for the Russians in the upcoming Fall of the Reich BG book.

I went with 15mm mainly because there's a lot more players around here with 15mm WWII models than with 20mm.

I don't think the difference between 15mm and 20mm makes much of a difference in the space you need for the table as IMO the main thing that affects that isn't the size of the model but the movement and firing distances involved which are identical for both 15mm and 20mm. I do think that the ground-scale looks better at 15mm even if I know that of course any 15mm tank game has to have a very abstract ground-scale. 20mm models do give more room to let your painting shine though - not a big issue for me with my painting skills There's also a really great selection of 20mm stuff out there.

I've started a 6mm British army for Normandy as some of the lads around here have 6mm and I know from numerous AARs that BG supports it well. So I'll have 6mm Brits and 15mm Germans for the west (not facing each other of course!) and 15mm Germans & Russians for the east. You can probably tell that I like the game.

I've played it almost exclusively on 6x4s, with a few games on 8x4 and one game on 8x6. I like to have lots of armoured vehicles and while I think 6x4 plays fine I do think it gets even better on bigger tables. However the smallest game that I've played is about 450 points, so I'll have to try out a 350 point scenario on a 6x4' like Piers recently did an AAR on.

I liked the game so much that I made a list builder for it - http://gregfarrell.org/builder/bgb.html . You can tinker and see what kind of forces you can field and get some idea for the great variety the game system allows. You can have radio trucks, dispatch riders, assorted bombers, fighters, artillery spotters, rescue vehicles, supply trucks (even supply horse&wagon).

It's a collector's dream though I'm still largely at the getting the staples stage of things - I intend to pick up all sorts of random things at Salute this month.

Quick question if I may - for 15mm, do the Battlegroup rules support infantry on bases as in FoW, or are they for infantry modelled individually.

I ask as I'm getting in to FoW at the moment, hoping the based infantry models will work for rulesets like Battlegroup too. Thanks in advance.

Group-based works fine for Battlegroup - either with casualty markers or with rosters.

Thanks dude

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Has anyone out there been able to translate the Kursk stuff into Modern stats?

I have a couple questions regarding those miniatures/models by Plastic Soldier Company.
I have started over 20years ago with collecting 1:72 soldiers of all eras. Back in the days I just had the Revell soldiers and when I grew older I got rid of them and never looked back because I never really liked the qualitiy nor the "mix" of stuff in the packages. I went on with Rocco models and later on Tamiya and Dragon stuff in 1:35 scale. Long story short, BGK caught my interest and I am eager to know how the Plastic Soldier Company stuff is qulity wise. Just going with the prize (~130minis for 18bucks) is well, I dont expect too much from them. If the PSC stuff aint that good I would love to get some input about what company could supply me with average to good quality minis in 15 to 20mm seize.
As a side question and a bit OT anyone has a good supplier for those napoleonic war miniatures?

I use metal 20mm figures from...

AB Figures
Elhiem Figures
Wartime Figures
Britannia Miniatures
Battlefield Miniatures
SHQ Miniatures
Shellhole Scenics
Early War Miniatures
War Modelling
Grubby Tanks/Kellys Heroes

To name but a few...

Big P wrote:
I use metal 20mm figures from...

AB Figures
Elhiem Figures
Wartime Figures
Britannia Miniatures
Battlefield Miniatures
SHQ Miniatures
Shellhole Scenics
Early War Miniatures
War Modelling
Grubby Tanks/Kellys Heroes

To name but a few...

Thanks, I will have a look at those figures

 Gorbad wrote:
I have a couple questions regarding those miniatures/models by Plastic Soldier Company.
I have started over 20years ago with collecting 1:72 soldiers of all eras. Back in the days I just had the Revell soldiers and when I grew older I got rid of them and never looked back because I never really liked the qualitiy nor the "mix" of stuff in the packages. I went on with Rocco models and later on Tamiya and Dragon stuff in 1:35 scale. Long story short, BGK caught my interest and I am eager to know how the Plastic Soldier Company stuff is qulity wise. Just going with the prize (~130minis for 18bucks) is well, I dont expect too much from them. If the PSC stuff aint that good I would love to get some input about what company could supply me with average to good quality minis in 15 to 20mm seize.
As a side question and a bit OT anyone has a good supplier for those napoleonic war miniatures?

If you want to read some pretty good reviews and see decent pictures of the PSC stuff head here...

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ManufacturerList.aspx?id=54

Thanks for the review link, that helps a lot. It seems I have to spend a lot of time into sorting out what is good and what is not so good. The PSC stuff seems to be somewhat good but some of their sets lack historical accuracy so I need to mix it up. It isnt too hard to make historically accurated sets esspeacilly for WWII - I thought

So I see that Battlegroup Overlord is being released on April 20th. Are there any American stockists that will have it on or around release? And how comprehensive is the mini ruleset bundle that PSC offers bundled with BGK? Is it a full, mini version of the rules, like 40k's Dark Vengeance rulebook, or is it just 'the back page appendix', so to speak? Thanks.

It's the full rulebook.

no idea about us stockists.

Anyone who stocks BGK will likely be getting BGO.

They wont have it for 'day of release' as the stock is due to arrive a couple of days before release at Salute.

The mini rulebook is the full rules. Taken from BGK and updated with all errata and new pics.

Awesome, thanks Quozl and Big P! I'll pre-order it through PSC and keep an eye on the mailbox.