Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As I am always reading about Space-marine chapters that harshly worship the God-Emperor I was wondering if there were any chapters that just dont worship him or aren't super hardcore about it. I dont mean chaos. But just, almost atheist chapters.

Not really, all Space Marine chapters worship the Emperor unless they're Chaos (in which case they worship a Chaos God).

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Not really, all Space Marine chapters worship the Emperor unless they're Chaos (in which case they worship a Chaos God).

So there are no independent space marine chapters?

The white scars dont worship him as a god. The see him as a mighty warrior.
Same with the SW.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Not really, all Space Marine chapters worship the Emperor unless they're Chaos (in which case they worship a Chaos God).

To my knowledge and reading in C:SM, Space Marines don't really dig worshiping the emperor, but venerate him as the greatest man ever. They have Chaplains that re-inforce their faith/whatever religious things they do, but they fiercely venerate the Emperor, more so than the GC & HH, but not as much as IG & SoB.

Well, there are some chapters that are more independent and trust more in their weapons.

I guess Salamanders are pretty independent and revere their Primarch as a god but not so much the Emperor.

Most of them - possibly the overwhelming majority - don't 'worship' the Emperor as a god. They were founded, don't forget, by guys who were around during the age of Imperial Truth.

I read about their being renegade marines, marines that had 'left the Imperium but not yet fallen to Chaos' or something. Stands to reason chapters could be the same. Especially chapters that have just been decimated down to the last company or so of dudes in some pointless war.

 prophet102 wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Not really, all Space Marine chapters worship the Emperor unless they're Chaos (in which case they worship a Chaos God).

So there are no independent space marine chapters?

Space Marine chapters are all independant. They all have their own home world and are all completely independant from themselves and the Imperium. They fight for the good of humanity, which in turn means they're fighting with the Imperium, but they aren't part of the Imperium. If they're told to go fight, they can easily tell whoever ordered them to fight to go blow a boltgun without ramifications.

However, there's some common themes with Space Marines. They, like the rest of the Imperium, are heavily religious, and while they don't all revere the Emperor as a God, they revere him as their creator. They do, hwoever, worship their Primarch more than the Emperor.

Space Marines epitomise the 'warrior monk' archetype of Warhammer 40k. There's no real way to get around it short of making your own chapter.

I think the closest you'll find are space wolves. They've been attacked by and have attacked the Ecclesiarchy on many occasions.

We have a prime example of a Chapter that renounced the Emperor and built an empire of their own - the Astral Claws. Of course, they then turned to Chaos... but it's possible that a Chapter could fall out of the Imperium's radar for an inordinate amount of time. I'm also not sure if the Astral Claws turned because they were attacked by other Chapters, or if they were turning already anyway.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The white scars dont worship him as a god. The see him as a mighty warrior.
Same with the SW.

Imperial Fists don't worship him as god either, for them he is just their king and they see him as human.

Almost all the first founding chapters don't see him as a God, because they were around when the Primarchs and The Emperor were still walking talking things. They remember the Emperor saying he didn't want to be a god, so they aren't making him a god. They think of him as the greatest human to ever live, but not a god.

Also, any Chapters that remember the Age of Apostasy are going to have a much different outlook on religion than ones that were founded after

I think saying that space marines sees the Emperor as 'just a great human' might be overstating it. While they might not technically see Him as a god they are still devoted to Him, and their Primarch, to a inhuman degree. They are fanatics of the worst kind.

Atheism doesn't really work in universe where daemons exist.

Yes, the Emperor's Imperial Truth was explicitly a lie enforced to try to weaken the Chaos Gods.

It didn't really work mind you.

 -Loki- wrote:

 prophet102 wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Not really, all Space Marine chapters worship the Emperor unless they're Chaos (in which case they worship a Chaos God).

So there are no independent space marine chapters?

Space Marine chapters are all independant. They all have their own home world and are all completely independant from themselves and the Imperium. They fight for the good of humanity, which in turn means they're fighting with the Imperium, but they aren't part of the Imperium. If they're told to go fight, they can easily tell whoever ordered them to fight to go blow a boltgun without ramifications.

However, there's some common themes with Space Marines. They, like the rest of the Imperium, are heavily religious, and while they don't all revere the Emperor as a God, they revere him as their creator. They do, hwoever, worship their Primarch more than the Emperor.

Space Marines epitomise the 'warrior monk' archetype of Warhammer 40k. There's no real way to get around it short of making your own chapter.

The way I see the question is "I am an atheist, and I want to make a chapter which reflects my own beliefs", but that's kind of difficult in this setting.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I think the closest you'll find are space wolves. They've been attacked by and have attacked the Ecclesiarchy on many occasions.

But even then they have their own beliefs about wolf and warrior spirits, energy embedded in their runes and talismans. And they call the Emperor the Allfather similar to Norse Allfather Odin.

 Wilytank wrote:


But even then they have their own beliefs about wolf and warrior spirits, energy embedded in their runes and talismans.

Well yeah...but that's irrelevant to whether they see the Emperor as a deity or not.

Most chapters seem to revere the Emperor about the same way, as much as prescribed by mandate, kina like most Christians. The few zealous chapters, like the Dark Angels and pre-heresy Word Bearers, are the ones who live and breathe it every day without pause.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 prophet102 wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Not really, all Space Marine chapters worship the Emperor unless they're Chaos (in which case they worship a Chaos God).

So there are no independent space marine chapters?

Space Marine chapters are all independant. They all have their own home world and are all completely independant from themselves and the Imperium. They fight for the good of humanity, which in turn means they're fighting with the Imperium, but they aren't part of the Imperium. If they're told to go fight, they can easily tell whoever ordered them to fight to go blow a boltgun without ramifications.

However, there's some common themes with Space Marines. They, like the rest of the Imperium, are heavily religious, and while they don't all revere the Emperor as a God, they revere him as their creator. They do, hwoever, worship their Primarch more than the Emperor.

Space Marines epitomise the 'warrior monk' archetype of Warhammer 40k. There's no real way to get around it short of making your own chapter.

The way I see the question is "I am an atheist, and I want to make a chapter which reflects my own beliefs", but that's kind of difficult in this setting.

Thats pretty much what I was asking. I may have to go outside the fluff boundaries on this one.

-Loki- wrote:Space Marine chapters are all independant. They all have their own home world and are all completely independant from themselves and the Imperium. They fight for the good of humanity, which in turn means they're fighting with the Imperium, but they aren't part of the Imperium. If they're told to go fight, they can easily tell whoever ordered them to fight to go blow a boltgun without ramifications.

At least going by GW's material, this is a false impression. The Space Marines are Imperial forces, originally raised by the Emperor and following his commands to the letter. The Imperium still exists, and there are people who speak in the Emperor's name. Just because the Space Marines have been granted fiefs (homeworlds) and a degree of independence from some Imperial decrees and organisations it is not as if they stand apart completely. This is reflected in the Inquisition having the official authority to command the support of Space Marine Chapters, just like the High Lords are enforcing at least some key parts of the Codex Astartes, and how the Imperium may declare a Chapter excommunicatus for doctrinal heresy.
The Relictors Chapter is a good example for how Imperial authorities can even nullify a Chapter's claim to a homeworld - currently, the Relictors' only source of reinforcements are the populations they encounter on the crusade they have been ordered to undertake as part of their penance.

But it is true that (most) Space Marines are the big exception when it comes to believing the Emperor to be a god. They do have their own pseudo-religion with Chaplains and prayers, but it is focused more on some sort of philosophy or ideal rather than faith in a divine being.

moreorlessrelevant wrote:
Atheism doesn't really work in universe where daemons exist

This.

The 40K universe has "gods" (though more in the Norse and /or Greek traditions), the old ones created a bunch of the current races and the Emperor and Chaos Gods have god-like power.
If you really want an atheist army, your best bet would probably be Necrons (god is dead, we killed him), Tyranids (whatever the hive mind says), or maybe Tau (we, together, are god).

Aethisim doesn't exist in 40k.

Many marine chapters may not worship the Emperor as a god, but they do revere him in what could be seen as worship.

I suppose the closest thing would be how Budda is viewed, he's not worshipped as a god(AFAIK) but he is revered to the point of worship.

 greyknight12 wrote:

moreorlessrelevant wrote:
Atheism doesn't really work in universe where daemons exist

This.

The 40K universe has "gods" (though more in the Norse and /or Greek traditions), the old ones created a bunch of the current races and the Emperor and Chaos Gods have god-like power.
If you really want an atheist army, your best bet would probably be Necrons (god is dead, we killed him), Tyranids (whatever the hive mind says), or maybe Tau (we, together, are god).

Dark eldar also don't have gods. Then again they have to act like their superiors are gods too. Dark eldar believe since their gods died in the fall they aren't worth worshiping. But also as others said white scars don't really believe the Emperor is a god, just a really good warrior worth of their respect.

Just adding this to clarify, didn't read too hard in all the replies necessarily but don't forget that you don't have to strictly hold the Emperor, or anything, as a God in order to be highly religious as a chapter/army.

But I feel like this discussion is pretty much over and I'm running through the curtain to say this, but...oh well


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, and uhh..you know, could always just switch to Tyranids.