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Warlord: Chaplain Mordecai (Bike, Mace of redemption)-170pts
Elite 1: Mortis dreadnaught (autocannons)-125pts

Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man,, melta gun, Combi-melta, melta bombs, rhino)-210pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, flamer, Combi-flamer, melta bombs Rhino)-205pts

Troop 3: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts
Troop 4: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts


F/A 1: Black knight squad (9 bikes, 2 ravenwing grenade launchers, power mace, melta bombs)-435pts
F/A 2: Black knight squad (6 bikes, 2 grenade launchers, melta bombs)-252pts
F/A 3: Darkshroud speeder-80pts

1850pts


so, Warlord joins F/A 1, and all the fast attacks push forward while the tacts move towards objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
any help?

is it THAT asinine?

How do the tac squads support the Black Knights?

Why on earth a Chaplain when a Libby is cheaper and better?

Why no command squad and no banner?

Why as many as 9 in a squad and why no mace on the 2nd squad?

1st question: they grab objectives and shoot things as needed.

2nd question: Libby is way to weak for a warlord. I rather not give first blood and slay the warlord first turn if (when) my rolling sucks. IC gives zealot, which is enough of a boost to CC without more rolling.

3rd question: where would a banner go if I take one? and why give more points for a banner that won't do a lot during the game

4th: 9 is a good number, it has many attacks and some padding against wounds. and 2nd squad is more or a 2nd distraction thing

Or in other words they don't support the black knights. You need fast moving troops otherwise your knights will get isolated. Troops that specialise in dealing with high AV also helps as this is the knights main weakness.

The libby supports the knights much better and his survivability is dependant on how you use him. Though I feel you need Sammael in this list.

Command squad with FnP banner massively improves the black knights. For a start it gives them a save against Helldrakes and other ap3 ignoring cover attacks. They're also a black knight unit for 6 less points so are more efficient. This also nets you a 3rd BK unit.

You don't need 9. For instance just 8 wipes out a 10 man Paladin squad on the charge, why would you need 9. 6 is enough, 8 is absolute maximum.

Maybe the Greenwing/Blackwing will work for you. But, I will have to agree with your current HQ choice. Mainly due to the fact that with 4 Attacks + Rending on the charge with the Knights you really don't need any rerolls. However, 9 Black Knights is way to powerful in a full Ravenwing army. I'm not entirely sure in a Green/Black Wing set up though. I would drop your 9 man squad of Knights down to 6 and add a command squad with a Banner of Fort. Look what it will bring with you to the table.....Say you have your HQ, Command Squad, Darkshourd, and Knights together, on turn one they will have 3+ AS, 2+ Jink, and 5+ FNP. That is a total of 3 units (arguablely your most important) that have those stats. IMO, that is way better than 3 additional Knights without those stats....plus it truely is overkill to have squads that large that are already so powerful. Then again, I have ran with 6 Knights and that was almost overkill. In the end it's up to you though!

i actually ran a list very similar to yours and if i can give one suggestion it is again that the green wing doesn't really work with the BK because you divide your army in two. it is really not ideal especially when you fight already difficult combat units e.g. beast squads. also i means that you are hindered at range with only a few shots. its better to commit to the full bike list with BK. otherwise i do like a chaplain but he is expensive. maybe sammy is your best bet. good luck

Well, I have a lot of experience playing troops 1 and two, so The way I play them with my dual vindicator list is that they drive forward with the main units to add more pressure and give a bigger focus on this moving part. They have won me a lot, and they don't stay still.

Troops 3 and 4, however, are pretty much elite killers/ objective getters. they sit in back and shoot lascannons at things, and sometimes they sneak around to get line breaker. They also usually stay together and attackin two's, giving me 8 plasma shots against a unit I want dead, along with two lascannons and 12 bolters.


And okay, you talked me into the command squad. Still keeping the Chappy though. I love his mace and what he does.

and is 6 really overkill?

revised one:

Warlord: Chaplain Mordecai (Bike, Mace of redemption, melta bombs)-165pts
Command: Ravenwing command squad (Banner of fortitude)-205pts

Elite 1: Mortis dreadnaught (autocannons)-125pts

Troop 1: Tactical squad (9 man,, melta gun, Combi-melta, melta bombs, rhino)-196pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (5 man, flamer, combi-flamer, Assault cannon razorback)-160pts

Troop 3: Tactical squad (5 man, combi-plasma, plasma rifle, TLLC razorback)-180pts
Troop 4: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts


F/A 1: Black knight squad (6 bikes, 2 ravenwing grenade launchers, power mace)-279pts

F/A 2: Black knight squad (6 bikes, 2 grenade launchers, melta bombs)-272pts

F/A 3: Darkshroud speeder-80pts

1850pts

Verdict is still out on how truly useful a BoF is, 85 points is helluva price to pay.

On the bright side, Bikes can always take it except against demolisher shells.

Anyway, this isn't 'Black Knight Focus' list, it's some tac marines with Black Knights tacked on.

This is Black Knight Focus list:

1850
Sammael
Librarian 2, Bike, PFG Force Stave
Techmarine, Bike, PFG, Servo Harness

RCS, Fortitude
RCS
RCS

RAS, Melta. AB. MM
RAS, Flamer, Flamer, AB, MM
RAS, Flamer, AB, MM

RBKx5
RBKx5
Darkshroud

Twenty Black Knights (Nineteen actually) in five different units and three ICs turbo boost toward the enemy line/scout and open fire on the first turn, all with a 2+ cover or 3+ cover and 4++ save and FNP. PFG isn't so important because you're doing massed attacks with the BKs rather than small numbers of PW attacks, so separate Sammael to hunt squishies on his own, but is immensely useful against things that ignore your save in CC, IE. Monstrous Creatures. AB and RAS scout forward and pop vehicles. Anything else dies to massed plasma and assault.
Given each unit of BKs generally kills a unit a turn, and the ICs can break off to form another powerful unit on their own, you should be able to wipe out 5-6 units a turn with shooting and assault.
Weak against flyers, but hey you're in cc in turn two anyway and can probably table all his non-flying units by turn 4.

Try it, it's fun!

Also more fun for your opponent than dying to over 9000 salvo bolter shots in the first turn.

I don't think a Tech marine cantake a command squad O.o I thought it was one or the other...

and yea, that DOES look fun! although I will try my list first, because I don't have that many bikes.

And it is a black knight focus if I shovel 850pts into the unit in a 1850 point game

Any HQ on a bike unlocks a Ravenwing Command Squad.

but is a Techmarine a command bike?

RaW the tech marine unlocks a ravenwing command. But RaI is blatantly clear that this is not allowed. However some people will cheat until an FaQ proves what they already know...

True. So, I have to try this list out with a big proxy thing. in the mean time,can someone point me to an easy guide on how to make Librarian and chaplains on bikes?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
True. So, I have to try this list out with a big proxy thing. in the mean time,can someone point me to an easy guide on how to make Librarian and chaplains on bikes?

Please ignore Flingitnow, he's a troll who thinks that Relentless Smash is a thing.

RAW it works until it is FAQ'd, and considering two FAQs have come out and it remains unchanged, it is unlikely.

Librarian on Bike= Take Librarian torso + Biker Legs

Techmarine on Bike= Take Techmarine Torso + Biker Legs

simples.

what about chaplain on a bike?


also, if I did take sammuel, would he go into a command squad to give extra wounds?

He sort of roams around- on the crucial turns he should be in the command squad to soak wounds, sometimes he's with just normal squads to give skilled rider, some times he's on his own to bait some fire which would go on your Banner squad. Best thing about Ravenwing and Sammael is that they are so damn versatile and mobile.

i know! i will have to get used to that soon


i'm still having problems deciding on the banner. should it be ravenwing for hit and run, or foritude for FNP?

Fortitude hit and run is not that useful. Particularly when you consider that Black Knights are combat monsters.

Elaborate, Fling.

Fortitude helps all your units all the time and covers your biggest weakness (low model count).

Hit and run doesn't help the Knights they WANT to be in combat. With your mobility and the CC potential of the Knights Hit and run shouldn't be needed even for the normal Ravenwing.

Its a no brainer Standard of Fortitude all the way!

Alright, that makes sense. thanks! have to try it out sometime to get a feel for some things though X-X

Don't listen to Fling, he has no idea what he's talking about. I don't think he even has a Ravenwing army, actually, much less played over thirty games with it.

With two RCS you can afford to take BOTH the Ravenwing Standard and the Standard of Fortitude, because auto-passing Hit and Run is amazing on Black Knights.

Hit and Run is what makes Ravenwing so powerful- you assault a unit, deny it's shooting, savage it in close combat in their turn, and then hit-and-run out to shoot/charge another unit.
This is doubly so for Black Knights, because their shooting is as strong or if not stronger than their CC against certain high toughness things and light vehicles.

This ensures maximum efficiency for your force (you don't spend a turn a)not shooting b)stuck in CC with two or three stragglers) and in the rare event you need to reposition
to contest or get away from something you can. In fact you can hit and run at any point in the assault phase, so even if you fail your sweeping advance roll/break them in your turn you still can be in a good position instead having to consolidate 6", and get 4d6 from the Standard.

It also makes you extremely slippery against CC armies, who charge you hoping to lock you in combat but get stranded when you H&R away.

Also, it seems you're running a Chaplain with the BKs, so getting Hatred every time on the charge is basically getting Prescience from a Librarian without the psychic test.

BK are only initiative 4 though, so it's only a 2/3 chance of this happening, but the Standard makes this auto-pass, which is magical on Black Knights. So many of my games have hinged on a single H&R roll, and I've been lucky so far, so much so that the Ravenwing Standard is should be included if you can find the points for it.

I'd trim some points on the Tacticals to get a second cheap bike Lib HQ and a second RCS to get it. The more Ravenwing Grenade Launchers the better. Then again, I've had much success running a Lvl2. I'm still not sure about the Mace of Redemption (don't forget the Blind test from it) since Chaplains already get a power maul for free, you're paying 30 points for AP3(2 vs chaos) and +1 str essentially, which isn't that great. Against things that beat him in CC it won't be that useful either, I'd swap it out for lvl 2 on the Lib or Sammael, since he's 15 points away.

I have a horrible streak with librarians. every psy test I usually perils him. I rather have a 3W Warlord that's power always goes off and doesn't kill himself on bad luck.

And I love the mace of redemption. It's almost unfair against unweary opponents. It's a better relic blade with more attacks.

Although, I am thinking of giving him a power axe too. AP2? yes please. I just want an HQ that's pretty good in assault.


and I'm thinking of doing that in a 2,000pt list. Think I should replace fortitude in this list?