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Remember the days when you could stroll through the "News and Rumors" section without being mugged by some kickstarter page? Let's bring those good days back. I propose that we make a separate forum for all the kickstarter pages. It's difficult to tell whose got information about GW or the hobby and who is trying to sell you something out of their garage.
Max
A recovering plastic addict. Now hooked on resin.
Visit my trade tread, eager to slim down the hobby closet.
Remember the days when members would use the search abilities of the forum, so they might avail themselves of information so we don't have redundant threads.
Just a few choice posts from one of the last threads about this idea:
insaniak wrote:As has been discussed previously, Kickstarter projects are no less newsworthy than any other upcoming release. They're ultimately no different to any other pre-release news snippet.
At the very least, they usually include concept art or WIP sculpts, which is more than can be said for the majority of Games Workshop-related news threads...
yakface wrote:
Ouze wrote: I think I'd define the difference as such:
N&R: a product release in which the release is not contingent upon as-yet-unfulfilled funding as a precondition of being released.
Hypothetical Kickstarter forum: Product releases which will only exist if crowdfunding is successful.
True, but rumored products often don't ever get released (or do so in a modified state), and sometimes even announced products go belly-up before they ever go on sale.
Realistically, the News & Rumors forum is about all the news and rumors involving the world of wargaming, not just what is the newest product that is currently available (although that is obviously a big part of it). Like it or not, Kickstarter campaigns are a big item of interest to a lot of people because they're either unique new projects or they represent the ability to pull of cool projects that may have never happened otherwise. In either case, they tend to capture that 'ooh shiny, something new!' quotient that people like to read about.
Putting crowd-funding threads into their own section simply means a splintering of the general news and rumors experience, so instead of going to one forum to see basically what new topics are trending hot with conversation, you now have to go to a separate forum to see if the hottest thing out is really a kickstarter campaign.
It just doesn't make much sense to me. As long as the threads are properly titled, they are easy to skip and there's enough real estate on the first page to make sure topics that deserve to be seen aren't simply getting pushed out.
I agree that there is definitely a glut of crowd-funding projects going on right now and I doubt its going to stop anytime in the near future, but that really kind of is the current face of wargaming in a large way right now and therefore should be in the news section of the forum.
Really, the best thing that people can do who don't like these threads is to not post in them. Everytime someone sees a crowd-funding topic that they think is stupid or unworthy and they post in that thread, they're just giving more attention to the topic to help it out. If they just left dumb kickstarter threads to their own accord then those threads would drift away and nobody would bother with them.
Zweischneid wrote:I believe that the Kickstarter-craze was the best thing that ever happend to the News/Rumours Forum.
Before it, it was essentially a GW rumour-tarot & GW news-announcement (made even more frustrating by GW's information policy). Other things were rather far between.
Now it's become more and more a genuinely comprehensive forum covering the world of miniatures and wargaming.
And as noted, virtually all those threads on Kickstarter (indiegogo, etc..) already include these references in the title, so it wouldn't be hard to steer clear of them (in comparison, it's often a lot harder to avoid - for example - GW-related threads there, as people don't tend to have the cutesy of putting "Games Workshop" or something of that sort in the title),.
d-usa wrote:Current breakdown of N&R:
13 Games Workshop Threads (not counting the two GW related stickies on top)
10 Kickstarter/Indiegogo Threads
24 "Other" threads.
If you don't count the stickies on top you get:
51% Everything else
28% GW 21% Kickstarter
Is having Kickstarters take up ~20% of the News & Rumors really such a bad thing? Considering that they are actually news that relate to the hobby? Games Workshop takes up more real estate on the N&R than any other company, but nobody has suggested kicking them out and putting them in their own N&R forum.
Games Workshop is popular, but this is NOT a Games Workshop forum. It is a hobby forum, that includes tabletop, board games, role playing, and even some computer games, and a very demented off-topic section.
I am amazed how having an active N&R forum where actual News & Rumors are posted on a regular basis that cover so many different game systems that I have never even heard off seems to be a had thing in the eyes of some.
d-usa wrote:
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm just going to say that there are more COMPLETED kickstarters in the News/Rumors section than news or rumors. There isn't any news in those threads anymore, and they should find a new home.
They include updates on ship times, updates on production, updated drawings/renders/sculpts, etc.
They include just as much news as any other thread in there, quite a few of them have more than the GW N&R threads which are often just wishlisting because there are no actual leaks.
And just for comparison, the current total threads out of 50 on the first page:
So Games Workshop takes up as much (and often more) threads in N&R than all the separate Kickstarter/Indiegogo threads combined.
One single company takes up almost as much real estate on page 1 as 14 separate companies who just happen to share the same funding source. If we break it down by actual companies we get what?
GW taking up 20%
14 companies taking up 2% each.
Yet everybody complains about these individual companies having their one thread when GW gets 10...
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
I searched the first few pages and did not see a topic related to it so I posted it up. I disagree that is all valid news worth seeing (LED kits, custom dice, fund my life), and feel like the news is now a cluttered pile of kickstarter promotions.
A recovering plastic addict. Now hooked on resin.
Visit my trade tread, eager to slim down the hobby closet.
I searched the first few pages and did not see a topic related to it so I posted it up. I disagree that is all valid news worth seeing (LED kits, custom dice, fund my life), and feel like the news is now a cluttered pile of kickstarter promotions.
The links I gave you were on page 2 and page 3... There is also a 3rd link on the third page.
But to just to inform you, the N&R 1st page is hardly a "cluttered" pile of Kickstarter promotions.
As of writing this post, there are 50 threads on the first page 3 are stickied threads 17 are for Kickstarters/indiegogos 6 threads are for GW and GW related products (Death from the Skies, 40k release Schedule, 40kRPG, Black Library, Forgeworld, etc...) 24 threads are for non-GW gaming companies (including things like Privateer Press)
So if you ask me, there aren't a lot of kickstarter threads, and it's looking like it's a darn good time to be a wargamer with those stats...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/16 23:16:36
Remember the days when members would use the search abilities of the forum, so they might avail themselves of information so we don't have redundant threads.
Just a few choice posts from one of the last threads about this idea:
insaniak wrote:As has been discussed previously, Kickstarter projects are no less newsworthy than any other upcoming release. They're ultimately no different to any other pre-release news snippet.
At the very least, they usually include concept art or WIP sculpts, which is more than can be said for the majority of Games Workshop-related news threads...
yakface wrote:
Ouze wrote: I think I'd define the difference as such:
N&R: a product release in which the release is not contingent upon as-yet-unfulfilled funding as a precondition of being released.
Hypothetical Kickstarter forum: Product releases which will only exist if crowdfunding is successful.
True, but rumored products often don't ever get released (or do so in a modified state), and sometimes even announced products go belly-up before they ever go on sale.
Realistically, the News & Rumors forum is about all the news and rumors involving the world of wargaming, not just what is the newest product that is currently available (although that is obviously a big part of it). Like it or not, Kickstarter campaigns are a big item of interest to a lot of people because they're either unique new projects or they represent the ability to pull of cool projects that may have never happened otherwise. In either case, they tend to capture that 'ooh shiny, something new!' quotient that people like to read about.
Putting crowd-funding threads into their own section simply means a splintering of the general news and rumors experience, so instead of going to one forum to see basically what new topics are trending hot with conversation, you now have to go to a separate forum to see if the hottest thing out is really a kickstarter campaign.
It just doesn't make much sense to me. As long as the threads are properly titled, they are easy to skip and there's enough real estate on the first page to make sure topics that deserve to be seen aren't simply getting pushed out.
I agree that there is definitely a glut of crowd-funding projects going on right now and I doubt its going to stop anytime in the near future, but that really kind of is the current face of wargaming in a large way right now and therefore should be in the news section of the forum.
Really, the best thing that people can do who don't like these threads is to not post in them. Everytime someone sees a crowd-funding topic that they think is stupid or unworthy and they post in that thread, they're just giving more attention to the topic to help it out. If they just left dumb kickstarter threads to their own accord then those threads would drift away and nobody would bother with them.
Zweischneid wrote:I believe that the Kickstarter-craze was the best thing that ever happend to the News/Rumours Forum.
Before it, it was essentially a GW rumour-tarot & GW news-announcement (made even more frustrating by GW's information policy). Other things were rather far between.
Now it's become more and more a genuinely comprehensive forum covering the world of miniatures and wargaming.
And as noted, virtually all those threads on Kickstarter (indiegogo, etc..) already include these references in the title, so it wouldn't be hard to steer clear of them (in comparison, it's often a lot harder to avoid - for example - GW-related threads there, as people don't tend to have the cutesy of putting "Games Workshop" or something of that sort in the title),.
d-usa wrote:Current breakdown of N&R:
13 Games Workshop Threads (not counting the two GW related stickies on top)
10 Kickstarter/Indiegogo Threads
24 "Other" threads.
If you don't count the stickies on top you get:
51% Everything else
28% GW 21% Kickstarter
Is having Kickstarters take up ~20% of the News & Rumors really such a bad thing? Considering that they are actually news that relate to the hobby? Games Workshop takes up more real estate on the N&R than any other company, but nobody has suggested kicking them out and putting them in their own N&R forum.
Games Workshop is popular, but this is NOT a Games Workshop forum. It is a hobby forum, that includes tabletop, board games, role playing, and even some computer games, and a very demented off-topic section.
I am amazed how having an active N&R forum where actual News & Rumors are posted on a regular basis that cover so many different game systems that I have never even heard off seems to be a had thing in the eyes of some.
d-usa wrote:
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm just going to say that there are more COMPLETED kickstarters in the News/Rumors section than news or rumors. There isn't any news in those threads anymore, and they should find a new home.
They include updates on ship times, updates on production, updated drawings/renders/sculpts, etc.
They include just as much news as any other thread in there, quite a few of them have more than the GW N&R threads which are often just wishlisting because there are no actual leaks.
And just for comparison, the current total threads out of 50 on the first page:
So Games Workshop takes up as much (and often more) threads in N&R than all the separate Kickstarter/Indiegogo threads combined.
One single company takes up almost as much real estate on page 1 as 14 separate companies who just happen to share the same funding source. If we break it down by actual companies we get what?
GW taking up 20%
14 companies taking up 2% each.
Yet everybody complains about these individual companies having their one thread when GW gets 10...
Do you just keep that wall-of-text on your clipboard?
If it's not something that people are interested in talking about then it falls off the front page pretty quickly and doesn't return. Everything in N&R currently is there because people want to talk about it.
The problem with banning kickstarters from N&R is that they are also the single largest source of new models/ greens/ artwork/ previews/ other points of discussion for various companies these days.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:16:50
