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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/05 01:15:56
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Huge Hierodule
United States
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In all my years divulging in the hobby, gaming, and background material of Warhammer 40k, there is one thing that has always puzzled me. Tzeentch is the Chaos God of magic, change, and devious plots. He is described as ever changing and amorphous. A very Lovecraftian entity that is incapable to be comprehended on any logical bases. But the theme of birds, feathers, and beaks have become more prevalent and pervasive in recent years. Whether they be the Lords of Change, who have always been massive, vrock-like Daemons, the Horrors with their feather charms and some with beaks, or a variety of other Tzeentch-related things, they all have feathers or beaks or other bird-like things.
What is it about birds that relates so heavily with Tzeentch? Is it just an aesthetic not used by the other Gods, and therefore helps to differentiate them? Is it meant to mock the Imperial Aquila? To me, I always thought that Tzeentch's greatest servants, his Greater Daemons, should be ever-changing and shifting entities of impossible structure and looks. Instead, they're big birds. The old, metal horrors captured the ever-changing and morphing aspect perfectly. Now they have beaks, feathers, and other charms. Why? I don't dislike the new Tzeentch stuff, I think it's great, I'm just trying to figure out the prevalence of the bird motif.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/05 01:24:25
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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I thought of it as an evocation of the common theme of ravens representing wisdom and magic. I believe that's originally a Norse motif (for example, Odin's ravens) so I think it probably came to 40k through the Fantasy side. I do agree that they should be a bit more mutable and if I were assembling a Tzeentch army, I'd heavily modify some with green stuff to ensure a more heterogeneous look.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/05 01:25:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 15:55:34
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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A touch of Pazuzu too.
Creepy birdy deities...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 15:55:53
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 15:57:50
Subject: Re:What's with the birds?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Birds have been associated with knowledge and power for quite a while, and have long been the envy of mankind for their ability to fly under their own power and poop wherever they feel like, which we'd need a jetpack and precision diarrhea to mimic. They work well as symbols of freedom as they go around doing as they please, and freedom begets change.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 16:07:41
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Birds are animals of knowledge. It's an association that goes back to the Greeks with Athena.
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My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 16:10:08
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Harriticus wrote:Birds are animals of knowledge. It's an association that goes back to the Greeks with Athena.
That's just glaucus.
There's also Odin's two Ravens, Huginn and Muninn. Thought and Memory.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 17:46:02
Subject: Re:What's with the birds?
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Nasty Nob
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The other gods also have some animal totems as well, and I think, especially for Warhammer Fantasy, there is an effort to map animals that have real-world superstition connotations with the Chaos Gods.
Khorne is associated with hounds, wolves, and bulls, to some extent.
Nurgle is associated with toads, slugs, maggots and flies.
Slaanesh has associations with serpents. I don't get the crab claws at all, though.
Tzeench has associations with birds and fish. Birds, historically, have often been viewed as having a great deal of divinatory power, from owls, to ravens, to predicting things by observing flights of birds (or the organs of birds). Fish also have some association with secret knowledge, such as the salmon of knowledge from the legends of Cu Chulainn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 19:18:53
Subject: Re:What's with the birds?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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I assumed that someone had just drawn the LoC as a bird-thing in an early piece of art to make it look weird and later artists had just recycled the theme ever since...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 19:19:56
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/07 03:40:25
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Dakka Veteran
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Birds are pretty clever, and can even be deceptive. Crows and cranes are known to steal things around here. I have personally watched a crane fleece a bunch of drunks on the beach. Every time they turned around he'd go headfirst into the bait bucket and gulp down his stolen tastiness, then continue walking around like nothing was happening while he waited for them to turn around again. Pelicans know what catfish are and will eat any other fish you throw at them. Crows love anything shiny, and will take off with them in a heartbeat if given a chance. What I don't get is why Slaanesh has pincher claws, unless it's a joke about the crabs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/07 07:00:19
Subject: Re:What's with the birds?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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In addition to the aforementioned mythological themes associated with birds, one mustn't forget the context of when the Realms of Chaos were first written, in the 1980's.
Now it is probably not the only inspiration, but the Skeksis characters from the Jim Henson movie Dark Crystal certainly bear similarities in some respects to the Lords of Change. Vulpine, cruel, plotting and capricious. For those that aren't sure what this is referring to, just look at some images that come up when you google Skeksis.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/07 07:00:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/07 08:20:05
Subject: Re:What's with the birds?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Birds are the evolutionary ancestor of velociraptors. Velociraptors were master trolls who regularly trolled and ate veteran British hunters. Tzeentch is the god of Trolling and Scheming. It all makes perfect sense, really.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/07 08:20:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 03:07:27
Subject: Re:What's with the birds?
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Hellish Haemonculus
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I kind of thought that it was an aesthetic that no other army was using, so it helps to make them distinctive. From the spindly frame to the weird texture to the unusual profile, the avian features serve to divorce the Tzeentchian figures from the standard 'demonic humanoid' look of daemons.
They also help hammer home the monstrosity of the Tzeentchian daemons to me, since the first thing that pops into MY mind when I think of birds is how absolutely filthy they are. To me, birdlike Tzeentch figures are more disgusting than most of the Nurgle models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 12:43:25
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Slippery Scout Biker
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It could also been seen as the chaotic counter part to the Imperial Eagle, as a mocking reminder to the Empire of Man that things can be twisted to suit different purposes.
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For the Emperor! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 21:09:33
Subject: What's with the birds?
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Quetzlcoatl was totally a Lord of Change, amirite?
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