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Hey All,

Now that I've had some real time to sit down with my book, I figured I'd start a thread to detail my first thoughts, and my list ideas, and then updates on their progress.

I'll go ahead and start with the new units, that are not limited to Dark Harvest lists.

Elites:

The Canoptek Tomb Stalker.

It has a similar statline to it's previous incarnation, except that it lost 1W, down to 4. However, it gained quite a bit. For starters, it now has he Rampage USR, and gained outflank added to it's Phase Tunneling Special rule. War Construct changed a slight bit, and now appears to omit sniper weapons. However, Fleshbane was added to it's "Must use strength, or requires a 6" In addition, it may now take a Gloom Prism, or Sepulchral Scarabs, which add IWND. It has also moved to the Elite slot.

Thoughts: Now that it is in the Elite slot, it is worth considering. It's gotten an increase in combat potential, thanks to Rampage, even though it lost brutal assault. With Outflank and Acute Senses, you can have it come in where you need to, and have an assault on turn 3, giving it only one turn to be shot at, compared it having to move up the board for 2 turns at least, previously. It still has that potent price tag on there. I don't think it's a must take, but I am going to give it a shot in a few games for sure. I think it is most defeintly usable, and will be great for knocking out backfield objective holders. It's unlikely for it to go down in a single turn of shooting, unless A LOT of firepower is dumped into it, and with T7 it doesn't have to worry about poison or fleshbane. I'd recommend having a Comms relay so you can ensure it comes on Turn 2.

Fast Attack:
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel

Same statline as the Stalker, but 2A base instead of 4. It also loses the Sense cluster, so it doesn't have acute senses or night vision. 10 points less though. Instead, it comes armed with an "Exile Cannon" which is a blast weapon version of the transdimension beamer.

Thoughts: This is the only unit i'm not quite sure of. It occupies the Fast Attack slot, which is already quite competative. I'm not sure if the Exile Cannon is really worth taking this, over a regular stalker. It still has outflank, but it's not quite guaranteed to show up where you want. This unit will really need some testing to show if it's worth it. The Rampage can help make up for it's 2A base, but that's far from reliable. Overall, this is really the only unit I'm not sold on.

Canoptek Acanthrites

These went up 5 points from the experimental rules, which you can find http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/acanthrite.pdf there.

Thoughts:
They are a VERY strong Anti-tank unit, that is completely dependent on your meta. If you are still running into a lot of Vehicles, or Land Raiders, I would take these. They Demolish Vehicles, and are very surviable. They are vunerable to tarpits though, as they only have 2A base. It takes a lot of shooting to take them down, as they are T5/3W/3+ save. So, I would not worry to much, they'll likely suffer pretty minimal casulties. I'm considering throwing a unit of 6 into my list, but I'm not sure yet. I really have to judge the amount of vehicles. Verdict: If you have a vehicle heavy Meta or Land Raiders, then these are great, take them for sure. Otherwise I woulden't be concerned about them.

Heavy Support:

Here is where the largest concentration of units are in, and the two real gems are.

Tesseract Ark.

This is probably my favorite of the new units. It's AV 12 all around, with Quantum shielding, and a serious arsenal. It comes standard with two Tesla cannons, which can be swapped for two Guass Cannons for free, and it's heavy, so it can move and fire all of it's weapons as if it were stationary. It also comes with a 5++, and gravitic distortion. This makes anything attempting to charge, or ram it, make a dangerous terrain test. It also makes any charges, become disordered charges. The real prize it's it's main weapon, the Tesseract Singulairty chamber. This weapon has three firing modes. The one you would use probably 90% of the time, is the Solar flare, which is a 48' Strength 7 AP2 Blast, heavy 3 weapon. Quite powerful. It also has a template weapon, that is AP3 and Fleshbane. The final weapon is the Sesiemic Lash, which you draw a line, 24' Anything on the line is auto hit. It has Armorbane, and Quake, but is only strength 5 AP 4, so It's not that good at taking out vehicles.

The Tesseract Ark does have a drawback. It is open topped, like all quantum shielded vehicles, and most of it's defensive abilities is tied to it's Tesseract Singularity chamber. In addition, if the Singularity chamber is destroyed, on a roll of a 4+ the Tesseract Ark Explodes. It also costs as much as a Land Raider.

Thoughts: Despite the fact it is open topped, AV 14 with a 5++ is still pretty damn durable. Most weapons will bounce right off of it, Really, only melta is going to be effective against it. It has powerful versatility in it's weapon choice, and can safely fire the Solar Flare as it moves up the board. I'm considering Gauss Cannons as the superior choice, as the AP3 is still quite valuable. It is very expensive though. This is the unit I'm probably looking forward to using the most, and think it will be quite fantastic on the tabletop.


Sentry Pylon

This is the other gem in the codex. The Sentry Pylon is a unqiue piece of artillery. It has the Canoptek Artillery rule, which means it has no crew, and can never declare a charge. It also can never be locked in combat, and auto-passes any morale checks. It however is auto hit in close combat. With T7 3W and a 3+, it's rather durable, espcially sitting behind an Aegis line. The best part, is it's basic weapon, the Gauss Exterminator. It's a 120' two shot lascannon, and has skyfire and interceptor. For 135 points. These can also come in battery's of 1-3. That's pretty amazing if you ask me. It has two other weapon upgrades, the Heat Cannon, which is a 2 shot strength 10 AP 1 Melta blast, and the Focused Death Ray, which works on the same principal as a death ray, except it's range is 24' and every model under the line counts as being hit twice instead of nice. The Heat Cannon upgrade is prohibitively expensive at 40 points. I don't think you will ever see it taken. The Death Ray upgrade is much more reasonable, at 25. The short range however, can be trouble These can be upgraded to have IWND and Deepstrike.

Thoughts: I'd say these are a steal, at their base cost, with base weapon. The Gauss Exterminator is an all purpose weapon, perfect for dealing with Flyers, Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures, whatever you want. Throw a battery of these behind and Aegis, and you have a fantastically survivable unit that can blast away a squadron of Vendettas, before they can even shoot. Probably the most competitive new unit.


Nightshroud Bomber

The new flyer. While I was pretty excited about this at first, the more AA you see, the more you see this as a very expensive flyer. It clocks in at 225 points, and is huge. However, it's bombs are actually useful. It has five of them, and they are Strength 10 AP1 blind, pinning, and large blast. It also has a Twin-linked Tesla Destructor. On the Bright side, it is AV 12 all around, so a bit more durable than standard flyers. I'm going to give this unit a try, however I'm much more enamored with the Tesseract Ark and the Pylons.

Fortification

Tomb Citadel
Coming in at a whopping 300 points, this huge piece of terrain turns your deployment zone into a fortress. It's very durable, and has a ton of uses. The Tomb Ziggurat has an Eternity Gate, Scarab Hive, and the ability to dock a Pylon or a Monolith and add +1 strength. The Power Crucible has 3++ against shooting attacks for units on there, the ability to reroll RPs of a 1. These are each AV 14, and are only destroyed on a penetrating hit of 5+. They also benefit from the 3++ as long as the Power Crucible is up. Really, this opens up a ton of tactical flexibility The only issue is it's a realm of battle board. Which sucks. Otherwise I think you would see this a lot more. The fact it's a piece of ROB, and a pain in the ass to cart around, are really big negatives. Tactically, it's awesome though.


Dark Harvest

Alright, for those that want to take a Dark Harvest list, there are several things to consider.

For starters, a Dark Harvest list can take everything in the standard Codex: Necrons, except for the following:
Special Characters, C'tan Shards, and Lychguard.
They follow some Slight Alternations to the Troop section. Warriors start at 10 Man, Flayed ones are Troops, and start at 10 man, Immortals may not be taken as compulsory troops. All Maynarkh Specific units (Their Lords, Overlords, Charnel Lychguard, Warriors, Immortals and Flayed ones) May take the Flensing scarabs unit upgrade. This grants the Unit shred on the first round of close combat in the game. Lords and Overlords have "Mark of the Flayer" which I'll cover later.
Finally, if you do not take a special character as your Warlord, you can roll on a pretty amazing Warlord Table

1. Add or subtract 1 to your reserve rolls
2. If your Warlord is still alive at the end of the game, add +1 VP
3. Must accept and issue challenges. For every IC your Warlord slays, you gain +1 VP
4. When your Warlord and unit are 3' within an objective, you may reroll failed RP rolls.
5. Every shooting phase you may add +1 Strength to a Necron Vehicle, or Artillery. shooting weapon. This must be a Necron Unit part of your primary detachment.
6. The Warlord and his Unit gain the Crusader USR.

As you can see, an excellent Warlord table, with no duds.

These factors alone, make the Dark Harvest list a competitive choice. It is a bit harder to minmax your troops, with minimum squads of 10, but I think Flensing Scarabs makes up for this, as it's a very cheap upgrade. If you really wanted to take some of those missing Codex: Necron units, you may ally them in, as allies of convenience.

Alright, On to the Dark Harvest speciefic Units.

[b]HQ[/b]

Kutlakh, the World Killer.

Absolutely brutal. He has the same statline as a Necron Overlord, with +1 WS and +1 A. However, he a plethora of special rules. and an awesome piece of Wargear.

The standard Necron Wargear he comes with is
Sempiternal Weave
Phalctery
Phase Shifter
Staff of light

His unique Weapon, is "The Obsidax" This is STR User, AP2 weapon, with instant death. Making him quite dangerous.

Now, onto his special rules
Phaeron
Admantium Will
Ever-living
Reanimation Protocols

And his special rule "Splinter of Madness" This gives him Fear, and Fearless. In addition, He must always accept and issue challenges. In a challenge, you and your opponet both roll a D6. If Kutlakhs is higher, your enemy reduces his WS by that amount. If reduced to 0, they can't fight back. He also has warlord Trait 6 chosen for him, and must be the Warlord if picked.

He can take a CCB for standard price.

Thoughts: For 5 points less than Imotekh, this guy is an absolute beast. I'm considering taking him in a CCB barge and just jetting him across the battlefield and curbstomping units. He has the advtange of keeping his staff of light, so you can fire off a few shots before you charge in. Not many characters want to take him on, thanks to his challenge special rules, and The Obsidax. Quite awesome.

Tolholk The blinded

It seems Forgeworld realized how poor the Cryptek Statline was, and gave this guy a boost. He has T5, and a 3+ save thankfully. He's got the standard Eternity Cryptek Stave, along with a TImesplinter cloak, and Transdimensoal beamer. He comes standard with Warlord Trait 1, and has some unique special rules. The first one gives him and his unit Night vision, and makes his unit immune to blind. His unit may also reroll a single D6 roll each turn. His other special rule gives you D3 Vehicles the IWND special rule.

Thoughts: he's pretty cheap, clocking in at 35 points than a base overlord. I don't know if I would take him though. I rarely have vehicles die to loss of hullpoints, and his D6 has some uses, but overall I'd rather take a Destroyer Lord or an Overlord.

Overlord

Pretty much exactly the same except they start with Hyperphase swords standard, have Mark of the Flayer, and fear.

Mark of the Flayer is present on Lords and Overlords, and does the following if you loose combat, or wipe out a unit in assault

1- D3 hits are inflicted on your own unit, allocated to the closes models. If the Overlord is alone, he takes a single wound with no saves of any kind allowed
2-5 Nothing happens
6. The Overlord gains fearless and rage, and will not flee if they were about to. In addition, weather or not he survives, he counts as destroyed at the end of the game for VP and Slay the Warlord purposes.

So, a bit of drawback, but not too bad.

Lords are the same, they have Mark of the Flayer, Fear, and Hyperphase swords standard.

Crypteks and Destroyer lords are the same per codex Necrons.

Elites

Charnel Lychguard

Charnel Lychguard are 5 points more than normal Lychguard, but come with fear and rage. They can also take the flensing scarabs upgrade. Only one unit can be taken per Overlord.

Thoughts: Rage for 5 points is not bad, but they still suffer the same drawback as regular Lychguard.

Triarch Praetorians, Triarch Stalkers, and Deathmarks can be taken as usual.

Troops:

Maynarkh Warriors
The same as standard warriors, except they have a minimum size of 10. They can also take flensing scarabs.

Maynarkh Immortals
Same, except cannot be taken as Compulsory Troops, and may take flensing scarabs.

Flayed one Pack

Now, this is what the really intreasting choice is. They are the same cost, and start minimum 10, but can take the flensing scarabs upgrade. A lot of people think Flayed ones are the worst unit in the Necron codex, so I'm curious how this will change with them being troops, and the flensing scarabs upgrade being very cheap. I'm going to give them a try for sure. Being able to infiltrate a large unit on the back of the table.

Fast Attack

Maynarkh Scarab Swarms
Start as standard scarab swarms, but for 5 points can be upgraded to Charnel Scarabs. They gain +1 WS, Rending, and shred, but loose entropic strike.

Thoughts: Charnel Scarabs seem pretty damn awesome. 5 Rending and Shred attacks on the charge, is pretty brutal. They still have the weaknesses of swarms though. I'm pretty eager to try these out. In an infantry heavy meta, they will absolutely shred squads.

Well, that concludes the Dark Harvest units.

My thoughts on the Dark Harvest list:

I like it. While I think it may not be as competitive, as a regular Necron Codex, due to the fact you cannot min/max your troops. I still think it can be quite competitive. I'm really eager to try out the Flayed ones as troops, and I'm also really eager to give Kutlakh a try. I'll probably take it slow at first, and add stuff over time. The Warlord table is absolutely amazing, and I'd go so far as to say it is probably the best Warlord table in the game. I think flensing scarabs can make a pretty big difference on your units. It can be the difference between being swept, or even winning combat. That can be absolutely crucial, and it is such a cheap upgrade. I also like the "Feel" of the Maynarkh, so to speak. Overall, it's pretty fantastic, and I'm quite happy with it. The only thing I think they could have done to make it better, was to make some kind of Flayed one Lord. Other than that though, this book is absolutely brilliant, and I recommend anyone who is a Necron fan to pick it up.

Next up, will be my first list!

Very good! Wonderful to see all that was added to the Dark Harvest.

Overall looking at the list it looks more aggressive/short range oriented than the standard Necron list with a greater emphasis on CC playing its part (though I still wouldn't call it a a CC oriented army). Some of the changes are rather interesting, The bomber turned out not to be the scary flying AV14 monster some of the initial rumors claimed it would be, it looks to be a fine piece of work without being as inherently upsetting as some of the other flyers currently in the game.

I'm gonna chip in some thoughts here too.

Can't believe the tomb stalker lost a wound. Did anyone look at that thing and seriously think it was too durable? T7 is great and all but when something that costs over 200 points with basically no shooting dies in 12 plasma shots on average, that's just rubbish. Same reason no-one uses assault-only Carnifexes - they are just not good enough. A shame really, the model is awesome. Same deal with the sentinel, except that takes up a decent slot as well!

Acanthrites remain amazing. I honestly have no idea why people don't think these are super good. T5, W3, 3+, stealth, fearless, plasma pistol, rending, entropic strike, jump? Stick a Destroyer Lord in with 5 and watch MEQ/TEQ units melt. Wraiths are better in assault but these are scarabs mixed with Praetorians - durable, reliable, excellent at either killing tanks or tarpitting. The loss of the invun matters only vs S10 AP3/2/1 or in combat. I can see 3 units of 3 being a crazy good way of getting anti-tank into a list, whilst allowing your crypteks to specialise against infantry instead. In all my games against them, they've wrecked stuff left right and centre. To put it into perspective, here's what it takes on average to kill a minimum unit of 3 in the open:

20 plasma gun shots/missiles/lascannons

7 Night Scythes

10 TL autocannon dreads

122 bolter shots

324 lasgun shots

It's honestly crazy. They have much smaller models than Wraiths too, so will almost always have better cover than 6+ which is what I did these calcs with. Try 'em out, be surprised.

Tesseract Ark - just awesome. Whilst the 3 blasts are vastly superior in almost all situations, what an arsenal to have! Gauss cannons are great and I don't really know whether the Tesla or Gauss will be better. I suspect gauss due to the heavy rule but instant death vs T3 is occasionally rather useful, plus it's better against cover. Still, I wish it did a little more. Not sure 3 S7 AP2 blasts is enough to take me away from the good old 3 Annihilation Barges but I'll give it a whirl - certainly better than a Monolith!

Sentry pylons are interesting. They occupy the best slot in the codex but are amazing at their job. The Death Ray one stands out to me over the Tesseract Ark but I'll need to playtest to see just how durable they are. The Gauss Exterminators are good and I can definitely see people taking 2 units of 3 so they have unrivalled air superiority. Not sure how to fewel about that really, but it's there. One is not as cheap as 2 lascannon sabres, nor as durable, nor as accurate. That's very interesting but they do have that range advantage and T7, so I suspect that someone realised air superiority needs a price. Heat cannons are meh - sure, it's a good gun but you're not getting melta that often with it and the focussed death ray is, IMO, superior at tank hunting anyway as it cannot miss.

Night shrouds are the best expensive unit Necrons have IMO. 2 Night Scythes for 2 units of warriors and 3 Night Shrouds will seriously hurt any army. Why? Low scatter S10 AP1 large blasts. Also, they're blinding and pinning for extra hilarity. At last, I think I can say I've found a unit that can neuter heavy artillery. Or marines. Or Terminators. Anything that looks at you funny really. With AV12, it's a tough blighter and the turn they enter is a brick producing moment for sure. Still, good AA will take it down. I guess I'd compare it to a Heldrake but less broken? I like this addition, it compares well to the Annihilation Barge or the Ark, the other amazing picks for this slot.

The Tomb Citadel. Just... what? What? 2 AV14 parts, scarab hive, eternity gate, 3++ to all units on any part of it, possible S10 pylons, reroll 1's for RP, skyfire/interceptor tesla destructor options, comms relay option. Kinda insane for the points. I doubt you'll ever actually see one though unless you play on Realm of Battle boards and can easily change them.


Onto the list!

Kutlakh is okay. I'd only use him in a CCB, and even then I'd wonder if I'd rather save the points and just take a Destroyer Lord.

Toholk is... pretty cool? Don't really know how you'd use him, the It Will Not Die! thing seems meh because Necron vehicles tend to explode or become useless rather than wreck due to loss of HP. I'd probably pass for the normal Overlords to be honest.

Charnel Lychguard are less worthless than normal Lychguard, but just barely. Kills marines dead. Needs a Night Scythe. Not good at anything other than killing marines dead. Pass.

The troops restrictions are really annoying. Footcrons are still not good, giving non-assault units shred will not help. It particularly annoys me the minimum size of warriors is 10, because now I can't run 9+cryptek in a ghost ark. Never mind, at least flayed ones are troops here. Infiltrating troops are decent, plus point for point I believe they outperform many close combat units. Shame they aren't fearless really.

Charnel scarabs. Not bad but... why? 100 points gets you a good 25 attacks on the charge, but that's at I2 still. You can probably expect 20 attacks when you hit, 10 of which hit and then you kill what, 3.7 marines? That means combat is drawn and nothing happens. Pretty poor considering how terrifying normal scarabs are to vehicles. Needed to be a free change IMO.

So yeah. Certainly a good read and 4 good units added. The new list is fun but not as good as a codex list IMO due to the weakness of troops.

On a side note, the book is gorgeous. Easily one of the best I've seen. The campaign looks like good fun too. I'll definitely try and convince someone to give it a whirl with me.

Can't believe the tomb stalker lost a wound. Did anyone look at that thing and seriously think it was too durable? T7 is great and all but when something that costs over 200 points with basically no shooting dies in 12 plasma shots on average, that's just rubbish. Same reason no-one uses assault-only Carnifexes - they are just not good enough. A shame really, the model is awesome. Same deal with the sentinel, except that takes up a decent slot as well!

I don't know, while they lost a wound, they did gain a pretty big bump in combat ability, with rampage. 12 Plasma shots is pretty significant, you have to pump a lot of firepower into it, to kill it.

The Sentinel I'm up in the air about.

Acanthrites remain amazing. I honestly have no idea why people don't think these are super good. T5, W3, 3+, stealth, fearless, plasma pistol, rending, entropic strike, jump? Stick a Destroyer Lord in with 5 and watch MEQ/TEQ units melt. Wraiths are better in assault but these are scarabs mixed with Praetorians - durable, reliable, excellent at either killing tanks or tarpitting. The loss of the invun matters only vs S10 AP3/2/1 or in combat. I can see 3 units of 3 being a crazy good way of getting anti-tank into a list, whilst allowing your crypteks to specialise against infantry instead. In all my games against them, they've wrecked stuff left right and centre. To put it into perspective, here's what it takes on average to kill a minimum unit of 3 in the open:

20 plasma gun shots/missiles/lascannons

7 Night Scythes

10 TL autocannon dreads

122 bolter shots

324 lasgun shots

It's honestly crazy. They have much smaller models than Wraiths too, so will almost always have better cover than 6+ which is what I did these calcs with. Try 'em out, be surprised.

Well, I ordered six of them, so I will be playing with them. I ran a few games with Wraiths as Proxies when their experimental rules came out, and while they were decent, they were not really mind blowing to me.

Tesseract Ark - just awesome. Whilst the 3 blasts are vastly superior in almost all situations, what an arsenal to have! Gauss cannons are great and I don't really know whether the Tesla or Gauss will be better. I suspect gauss due to the heavy rule but instant death vs T3 is occasionally rather useful, plus it's better against cover. Still, I wish it did a little more. Not sure 3 S7 AP2 blasts is enough to take me away from the good old 3 Annihilation Barges but I'll give it a whirl - certainly better than a Monolith!

The Tesseract Ark is probably my favorite. I'm thinking it's worth the points, as it brings a lot of AP2, which a Necron list can often be found lacking. It's also nearly impossible to remove from the table.

Sentry pylons are interesting. They occupy the best slot in the codex but are amazing at their job. The Death Ray one stands out to me over the Tesseract Ark but I'll need to playtest to see just how durable they are. The Gauss Exterminators are good and I can definitely see people taking 2 units of 3 so they have unrivalled air superiority. Not sure how to fewel about that really, but it's there. One is not as cheap as 2 lascannon sabres, nor as durable, nor as accurate. That's very interesting but they do have that range advantage and T7, so I suspect that someone realised air superiority needs a price. Heat cannons are meh - sure, it's a good gun but you're not getting melta that often with it and the focussed death ray is, IMO, superior at tank hunting anyway as it cannot miss.

Hm? Unless I'm missing something, according to this update http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Impgupdate.pdf The Pylons are more accurate, and more durable, unless I'm missing something here.

Night shrouds are the best expensive unit Necrons have IMO. 2 Night Scythes for 2 units of warriors and 3 Night Shrouds will seriously hurt any army. Why? Low scatter S10 AP1 large blasts. Also, they're blinding and pinning for extra hilarity. At last, I think I can say I've found a unit that can neuter heavy artillery. Or marines. Or Terminators. Anything that looks at you funny really. With AV12, it's a tough blighter and the turn they enter is a brick producing moment for sure. Still, good AA will take it down. I guess I'd compare it to a Heldrake but less broken? I like this addition, it compares well to the Annihilation Barge or the Ark, the other amazing picks for this slot.

Yeah, the Large amount of AA showing up, is what is steering me away from it. I have one, and I think it is far and away the best bomber, I'm just concerned it may be taken down to easy.

The Tomb Citadel. Just... what? What? 2 AV14 parts, scarab hive, eternity gate, 3++ to all units on any part of it, possible S10 pylons, reroll 1's for RP, skyfire/interceptor tesla destructor options, comms relay option. Kinda insane for the points. I doubt you'll ever actually see one though unless you play on Realm of Battle boards and can easily change them.

Oh, I totally forgot to add this in! Will need to update the OP.


Onto the list!

Kutlakh is okay. I'd only use him in a CCB, and even then I'd wonder if I'd rather save the points and just take a Destroyer Lord.

Ok? I think he is pretty amazing myself, He is a perfect butcher or MCS or squads alike.

Toholk is... pretty cool? Don't really know how you'd use him, the It Will Not Die! thing seems meh because Necron vehicles tend to explode or become useless rather than wreck due to loss of HP. I'd probably pass for the normal Overlords to be honest.

My thoughts exactly.

Charnel Lychguard are less worthless than normal Lychguard, but just barely. Kills marines dead. Needs a Night Scythe. Not good at anything other than killing marines dead. Pass.

Sadly, I agree as well.

The troops restrictions are really annoying. Footcrons are still not good, giving non-assault units shred will not help. It particularly annoys me the minimum size of warriors is 10, because now I can't run 9+cryptek in a ghost ark. Never mind, at least flayed ones are troops here. Infiltrating troops are decent, plus point for point I believe they outperform many close combat units. Shame they aren't fearless really.

I have to disagree about the flensing scarabs. I feel for such a cheap price, and the fact it can easily mean life and death for a squad is great. This can really save a squad of warriors if they get assaulted. It makes Flayed ones really brutal in the first assault as well. I admit, the 10 man minimum is a bit annoying, but I honestly was not taking that many Crypteks anyway.

Charnel scarabs. Not bad but... why? 100 points gets you a good 25 attacks on the charge, but that's at I2 still. You can probably expect 20 attacks when you hit, 10 of which hit and then you kill what, 3.7 marines? That means combat is drawn and nothing happens. Pretty poor considering how terrifying normal scarabs are to vehicles. Needed to be a free change IMO.

I don't know, if you're taking scarabs you'll generally go for a full squad. That's 50 Rending and Shred attacks on the charge. That will sereioulsy maim, if not wipe out most squads in the game. I don't think these are as good as Acanthrites or Wraiths though.

So yeah. Certainly a good read and 4 good units added. The new list is fun but not as good as a codex list IMO due to the weakness of troops.

Indeed, the inability to min/max the troops puts this a small bit below the original codex. However, I still feel it can be quite competetive, and a fun and thematic list, without sacrificing effectiveness.

On a side note, the book is gorgeous. Easily one of the best I've seen. The campaign looks like good fun too. I'll definitely try and convince someone to give it a whirl with me.

The book is absolutly gorgeous. I plan to send FW a letter, letting them know how awesome the book was!

Very, very interesting, thanks for the awesome post!! I've been considering ordering IA12, and your post made me take the step.

Great stuff!!

PS While I think the warlord traits are really cool, I'm hoping that I don't roll up number 4... my group alright dislike res...

 DexKivuli wrote:
Very, very interesting, thanks for the awesome post!! I've been considering ordering IA12, and your post made me take the step.

Great stuff!!

PS While I think the warlord traits are really cool, I'm hoping that I don't roll up number 4... my group alright dislike res...

It can't be any worse than having strength 8 Desctructor shots!

Well, I ordered six of them, so I will be playing with them. I ran a few games with Wraiths as Proxies when their experimental rules came out, and while they were decent, they were not really mind blowing to me.

They're very different. Wraiths often plug a counter assault role, with a bit of hunting if they get the chance. Acanthrites always hunt vehicles and things to tarpit - they're not good at counter assault. On a side note, they're really annoying to build.

The Tesseract Ark is probably my favorite. I'm thinking it's worth the points, as it brings a lot of AP2, which a Necron list can often be found lacking. It's also nearly impossible to remove from the table.

True. It is a lot of points though. Maybe 1 Ark, 2 Annihilation Barges? Gives you that good supporting fire and something that can deal with problematic units.

Hm? Unless I'm missing something, according to this update http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Impgupdate.pdf The Pylons are more accurate, and more durable, unless I'm missing something here.

Sabres were updated in Aeronautica. They're now T6 W2 3+ artillery which replace heavy weapons teams in a platoon. With a TL lascannon, they're 50 points, 40 with TL autocannon. Comparatively, 2 of them are superior to a single pylon.

Ok? I think he is pretty amazing myself, He is a perfect butcher or MCS or squads alike.

He's very good at what he does if he can get there. The problem is how he gets there and how limited he is. Whilst a normal overlord with warscythe doesn't have ID, they still ignore armour and are better vs vehicles, plus they're far cheaper. He's a niche character I think, I just don't see how to get him into assaults easily.

I have to disagree about the flensing scarabs. I feel for such a cheap price, and the fact it can easily mean life and death for a squad is great. This can really save a squad of warriors if they get assaulted. It makes Flayed ones really brutal in the first assault as well. I admit, the 10 man minimum is a bit annoying, but I honestly was not taking that many Crypteks anyway.

Flayed ones I agree, it makes them brutal. Warriors? Meh. If you're facing an assault unit, you'll still probably do less wounds and lose on combat res. If you're facing a normal unit, it's still better to fire. Really, it's a few points ffor minor charge prevention. Not bad, but not really worth the points unless you're looking for list filler IMO.

I don't know, if you're taking scarabs you'll generally go for a full squad. That's 50 Rending and Shred attacks on the charge. That will sereioulsy maim, if not wipe out most squads in the game. I don't think these are as good as Acanthrites or Wraiths though.

Yeah, I mean, a full unit of 10 hitting enemies will brutalise them - 50 rending attacks is not something anything can laugh at. The issue I have is getting them there. With normal scarabs, if you take 7 and 3 get there, you still maim the tank. With these, if 3 get there you die. 6 Wraiths may put out half the attacks but they have an invuln and higher strength. I dunno, just doesn't seem worth it.

Indeed, the inability to min/max the troops puts this a small bit below the original codex. However, I still feel it can be quite competitive, and a fun and thematic list, without sacrificing effectiveness

Oh yeah, I agree entirely. Actually I've spent the past while figuring out how viable 10 man flayed one units are. I think they're actually really good to be honest - they die, but they take a lot with them and are not ignorable when they score.

The warlord traits are insane though. I might try out the good old warrior spam list again in 6th. I think if I take empty Night Scythes and a few pylons it could work. It's not like anything survives particularly well with Heldrakes around anyway, right? May as well have lots of bodies and if I'm doing that, may as well have a non-useless warlord trait.

Can the Warlord traits be used in a Codex:Necrons army, or just a Dark Harvest list?

Only in a Dark Harvest list it looks like.

Warriors? Meh. If you're facing an assault unit, you'll still probably do less wounds and lose on combat res. If you're facing a normal unit, it's still better to fire. Really, it's a few points ffor minor charge prevention. Not bad, but not really worth the points unless you're looking for list filler IMO.

I think you are underestimating what a squad of 20 Phaeroned Warriors is capable of in CC. I run that unit as is with Imohtek can there are few assault units that really concern me. If the Warriors could take shred, I'd do it every single day I had the chance.

The number 4 on the Warlord trait is pretty amazing, to bad no one comes with it standard. 10 Sword and Board LG with rage and fear and a re-rollable 4+ RP would be one of the most resilient death stars in the game.

Just for giggles, it would take:

54(2÷3)(1÷3)(1÷3)(1÷2)(1÷2)=1

54 bolter shots just to kill one LG with a re-rollable 4+ RP. Don't have 540 bolter shots? Good luck killing my LG deathstar brosif. (Incidentally, it would also take 14 to 15 Plasma or Missle shots, making big weapons pretty insignificant as well).


Obviously, as Sasori already knows, I love the augments to Flayed Ones. I already use them to great effect as is, shred and scoring would just be icing on the cake.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only in a Dark Harvest list it looks like.

Doh. Was getting excited there for a minute.

S10 Gauss Sentry Pylon? Thanks very much.

The #4 warlord trait only applies if within 3" of an objective unfortunately, so not quite as immediately awesome as it seems, though still useful.

Praxiss wrote:

Doh. Was getting excited there for a minute.

S10 Gauss Sentry Pylon? Thanks very much.

Most everything else aside from the Characters and special scarabs though you can use in a normal Necron list at least

 Vaktathi wrote:
The #4 warlord trait only applies if within 3" of an objective unfortunately, so not quite as immediately awesome as it seems, though still useful.

Ah, so it's similar but more Necrony version of the FNP BYB Warlord trait. Still good, but your right, not quite as amazing as I first thought.

yeah, otherwise it'd be "take 20man warriors squads, lord with rez orb, and pray for that lucky #4 every game"

 Vaktathi wrote:
yeah, otherwise it'd be "take 20man warriors squads, lord with rez orb, and pray for that lucky #4 every game"

Yeah no doubt, with a couple of Ghost Arcs backing them up. "Dude, I'm not going to shoot you this game, but if you can manage to kill this squad some how, drinks are on me."

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Warriors? Meh. If you're facing an assault unit, you'll still probably do less wounds and lose on combat res. If you're facing a normal unit, it's still better to fire. Really, it's a few points ffor minor charge prevention. Not bad, but not really worth the points unless you're looking for list filler IMO.

I think you are underestimating what a squad of 20 Phaeroned Warriors is capable of in CC. I run that unit as is with Imohtek can there are few assault units that really concern me. If the Warriors could take shred, I'd do it every single day I had the chance.

Possibly. This got me thinking actually...

Kutlakh is a Phaeron. He's fearless as well, meaning the whole unit would be fearless. That means that your unit of 20 warriors could always make RP rolls, always charge and reroll to wound at the start of combat. This, whilst also averaging just over 2 hull points of damage to a vehicle every turn at 24" - all of the strengths of Necrons with none of the weaknesses. Good grief, that's terrifying. Resembles one of those guard blobs with 50~ guys and a marine leading, but it's actually better at combat if you'll believe that. Now, throw in a ghost ark or two and you suddenly have a unit that's very good at everything, whilst still being ridiculously hard to kill. Could throw in a res orb lord with MSS for maximum annoyance, which also allows it to deal with MCs far better. Well, I'll need to build a list around this for sure, it sounds hilarious.

Eyjio wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Warriors? Meh. If you're facing an assault unit, you'll still probably do less wounds and lose on combat res. If you're facing a normal unit, it's still better to fire. Really, it's a few points ffor minor charge prevention. Not bad, but not really worth the points unless you're looking for list filler IMO.

I think you are underestimating what a squad of 20 Phaeroned Warriors is capable of in CC. I run that unit as is with Imohtek can there are few assault units that really concern me. If the Warriors could take shred, I'd do it every single day I had the chance.

Possibly. This got me thinking actually...

Kutlakh is a Phaeron. He's fearless as well, meaning the whole unit would be fearless. That means that your unit of 20 warriors could always make RP rolls, always charge and reroll to wound at the start of combat. This, whilst also averaging just over 2 hull points of damage to a vehicle every turn at 24" - all of the strengths of Necrons with none of the weaknesses. Good grief, that's terrifying. Resembles one of those guard blobs with 50~ guys and a marine leading, but it's actually better at combat if you'll believe that. Now, throw in a ghost ark or two and you suddenly have a unit that's very good at everything, whilst still being ridiculously hard to kill. Could throw in a res orb lord with MSS for maximum annoyance, which also allows it to deal with MCs far better. Well, I'll need to build a list around this for sure, it sounds hilarious.

I like the way you think, good sir.

Hey, thanks a lot for doing this summary, has certainly been helpful. Just 2 queries:

 Sasori wrote:


Overlord

Pretty much exactly the same except they start with Hyperphase swords standard, have Mark of the Flayer, and fear.

Mark of the Flayer is present on Lords and Overlords, and does the following if you loose combat, or wipe out a unit in assault

1- D3 hits are inflicted on your own unit, allocated to the closes models. If the Overlord is alone, he takes a single wound with no saves of any kind allowed
2-5 Nothing happens
6. The Overlord gains fearless and rage, and will not flee if they were about to. In addition, weather or not he survives, he counts as destroyed at the end of the game for VP and Slay the Warlord purposes.

So, a bit of drawback, but not too bad.

1) Is there any way for the Overlord to take the Staff of Light still?

2) Does anyone smarter then me have any idea whether the D3 hits on your unit affect combat resolution at all? If they count as the necrons then this could actually be a boon in disguise. (3 robots that can reanimate is certainly a tonne better then a unit being swept)

Thanks again.

at least in answer to #2 the D3 hits occurs after combat resolution.

 Vaktathi wrote:
at least in answer to #2 the D3 hits occurs after combat resolution.

Aw, should have expected that.. I really like the new list for the most part but the Overlords are really quite a letdown by the looks of it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Sasori, been a great read. My copy of IA12 isn't here yet so I'm living off your summary for now

Apolgizes about the confusion on Warlord Trait 4, fixed that in the OP, lol. Also added the Tomb Citadel.

Very, very interesting, thanks for the awesome post!! I've been considering ordering IA12, and your post made me take the step.

Great stuff!!

PS While I think the warlord traits are really cool, I'm hoping that I don't roll up number 4... my group alright dislike res...

No problem! I'm glad to help.

Flayed ones I agree, it makes them brutal. Warriors? Meh. If you're facing an assault unit, you'll still probably do less wounds and lose on combat res. If you're facing a normal unit, it's still better to fire. Really, it's a few points ffor minor charge prevention. Not bad, but not really worth the points unless you're looking for list filler IMO.

I know you and ShadarLogoth have discussed it, but I think 10 points is an absolute steal for it.

Lyvef1re wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
at least in answer to #2 the D3 hits occurs after combat resolution.

Aw, should have expected that.. I really like the new list for the most part but the Overlords are really quite a letdown by the looks of it.

Well, considering the hits are on your own unit, or yourself, you WANT it to occur after combat resolution.
You can trade the Hyperphase Sword for a Staff of light, for free.

I'm still tweaking my list for the moment, going to have it ready before too long.

 Sasori wrote:
Well, considering the hits are on your own unit, or yourself, you WANT it to occur after combat resolution.

Maybe I wasn't very clear. If the Lords rampage had actually added 3 wounds to the necrons combat score then not necessarily. If that tipped them from having to take a morale check then I'd rather 3 necrons that may stand up. Regardless the point is moot with it being taken after.

 Sasori wrote:
You can trade the Hyperphase Sword for a Staff of light, for free.

Really? I guess I just assumed it was different since you pointed it out specifically. It's pretty cool how they've even added little fluffy things like that in there.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm still tweaking my list for the moment, going to have it ready before too long.

I look forward to reading it.

Canoptek Tomb Sentinel

Same statline as the Stalker, but 2A base instead of 4. It also loses the Sense cluster, so it doesn't have acute senses or night vision. 10 points less though. Instead, it comes armed with an "Exile Cannon" which is a blast weapon version of the transdimension beamer.

Thoughts: This is the only unit i'm not quite sure of. It occupies the Fast Attack slot, which is already quite competative. I'm not sure if the Exile Cannon is really worth taking this, over a regular stalker. It still has outflank, but it's not quite guaranteed to show up where you want. This unit will really need some testing to show if it's worth it. The Rampage can help make up for it's 2A base, but that's far from reliable. Overall, this is really the only unit I'm not sold on.

The exile cannon is a bit underated, blast with strength tests can really screw up some squads that rely on their saves (eldar jetbikes, deamons using the grimoire), but a blast weapon that auto pens a tank with no saves allowed....which is basically a D weapon, that is quite nasty, and can really mess up tanks...and once again mess up tanks that rely on saves, eg fortuned wave serpants and all tau vehicles. Frankly deep striking it, or outflanking it with a supporting stalker or two can really mess up an army.

Tesseract Ark.

This is probably my favorite of the new units. It's AV 12 all around, with Quantum shielding, and a serious arsenal. It comes standard with two Tesla cannons, which can be swapped for two Guass Cannons for free, and it's heavy, so it can move and fire all of it's weapons as if it were stationary. It also comes with a 5++, and gravitic distortion. This makes anything attempting to charge, or ram it, make a dangerous terrain test. It also makes any charges, become disordered charges. The real prize it's it's main weapon, the Tesseract Singulairty chamber. This weapon has three firing modes. The one you would use probably 90% of the time, is the Solar flare, which is a 48' Strength 7 AP2 Blast, heavy 3 weapon. Quite powerful. It also has a template weapon, that is AP3 and Fleshbane. The final weapon is the Sesiemic Lash, which you draw a line, 24' Anything on the line is auto hit. It has Armorbane, and Quake, but is only strength 5 AP 4, so It's not that good at taking out vehicles.

The Tesseract Ark does have a drawback. It is open topped, like all quantum shielded vehicles, and most of it's defensive abilities is tied to it's Tesseract Singularity chamber. In addition, if the Singularity chamber is destroyed, on a roll of a 4+ the Tesseract Ark Explodes. It also costs as much as a Land Raider.

Thoughts: Despite the fact it is open topped, AV 14 with a 5++ is still pretty damn durable. Most weapons will bounce right off of it, Really, only melta is going to be effective against it. It has powerful versatility in it's weapon choice, and can safely fire the Solar Flare as it moves up the board. I'm considering Gauss Cannons as the superior choice, as the AP3 is still quite valuable. It is very expensive though. This is the unit I'm probably looking forward to using the most, and think it will be quite fantastic on the tabletop.

I think you need to consider the seismic lash again.

A 24" line auto hitting everything under it, disrupting anything its hit no matter if its caused wounds or not.

The sheer amount of hits you can get in one shot is staggering, while the solar flare is great at long range, this can spread pain on multiple units, while being hell for other xenos units and the guard. Armourbane is, to me, just a bonus, allowing this gun to be used against tanks as well as seriously hurting infantry forces.

The exile cannon is a bit underated, blast with strength tests can really screw up some squads that rely on their saves (eldar jetbikes, deamons using the grimoire), but a blast weapon that auto pens a tank with no saves allowed....which is basically a D weapon, that is quite nasty, and can really mess up tanks...and once again mess up tanks that rely on saves, eg fortuned wave serpants and all tau vehicles. Frankly deep striking it, or outflanking it with a supporting stalker or two can really mess up an army.

It's pretty expensive right? Still, I'm with you, it seemed Sasori was underestimating that a bit. The problem with Trans Beamers and the Mono vacuum isn't the lethality of the shot, but rather the inability (or difficulty) in bringing it to bear. Even against weak things, like Guard, you are killing 50% of the models hit, which is pretty close to any other pie plate that allows cover (which generally kill ~55% against 5+ cover), and superior if they are behind an ADL or GTG or whatever, which is all quite common in the current meta. Against things like Terms or Pallies? The shot is damn near broken.

Of course, I don't know what it costs, which Sasori is obviously factoring in.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

The exile cannon is a bit underated, blast with strength tests can really screw up some squads that rely on their saves (eldar jetbikes, deamons using the grimoire), but a blast weapon that auto pens a tank with no saves allowed....which is basically a D weapon, that is quite nasty, and can really mess up tanks...and once again mess up tanks that rely on saves, eg fortuned wave serpants and all tau vehicles. Frankly deep striking it, or outflanking it with a supporting stalker or two can really mess up an army.

It's pretty expensive right? Still, I'm with you, it seemed Sasori was underestimating that a bit. The problem with Trans Beamers and the Mono vacuum isn't the lethality of the shot, but rather the inability (or difficulty) in bringing it to bear. Even against weak things, like Guard, you are killing 50% of the models hit, which is pretty close to any other pie plate that allows cover (which generally kill ~55% against 5+ cover), and superior if they are behind an ADL or GTG or whatever, which is all quite common in the current meta. Against things like Terms or Pallies? The shot is damn near broken.

Of course, I don't know what it costs, which Sasori is obviously factoring in.

It costs 10 points less than a Canoptek Tomb Stalker, which is the same cost as it's previous incarnation.

The Canoptek Tomb Sentinel has a few things going against it, One is it's high cost, and the fact it occupies the Fast attack slot. Don't get me wrong, I am more than willing to try it out, I just feel that on paper, for it's price it's not all that impressive, especially when compared to several of the other new units. I am perfectly open to change my opinion, and It may happen over the course of my testing.

What do you think would be a primary list for Dark harvest?

Well, here's my "for fun" type list that I've been thinking about for 1850:

Kutlakh

Cryptek
-Harbinger of the storm

Cryptek
-Harbinger of the storm

20 warriors
-Flensing scarabs

10 Flayed Ones
-Flensing scarabs

10 Flayed Ones
-Flensing scarabs

5 Immortals
-Gauss
-Night Scythe

5 Immortals
-Gauss
-Night Scythe

5 Canoptek Acanthrites

Night Shroud Bomber

Annihilation Barge

Annihilation Barge


Is this a good list? No, not really. Is it fun? Well, it looks like it to me. The issue with this list is how poorly it performs against MCs/artillery of any kind. I can do a lot better without running the warrior blob alongside flayed ones but as I say, it's only for fun anyway. Still trying to make an "efficient" Dark Harvest list but Griffons, Dreadknights, Heldrakes and Forge World AA, especially Sabres are really hard to work around for any Necron list. Sentry Pylons are fun but you're still paying 135 points for essentially 2 skyfire lascannons. Tesseract Arks are great but very expensive for what they do. It's tough. That said, no tournament will likely ever allow this list so as long as you're not facing the people taking the super tough builds around at the moment you should be okay.

Kutlah 220
CCB 80
Destroyer Lord 160 Weave and MSS
10 Warriors, Ghost Ark, Flensing Scarabs 255
10 Warriors, Ghost Ark, Flensing Scarabs 255
5 Immortals, Night Scythe 185
5 Immortals, Night scythe 185
6 Wraiths, 2 Whip Coils 230
Annihilation Barge 90
Annihilation Barge 90
Tesseract Ark 250

2k on the dot. I wanted to include some Ancanthrites, but I just didn't have the points. This is of course, just a first iteration. I plan to switch it up a few times, I'm sure. I'm looking forward to trying out all the new units!