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This unit is disgusting, simply disgusting. If they don't nerf runes of warding expect to see Tau/ Eldar heavy lists at all the major tournaments. I ran it against Necrons/grey knights for the first time tonight and whatever they were in range of died, and it was hard to keep saying yes no cover against the almost criminal amount of Ap2 fire this unit can put out, I mean 4 tl shots per man at 12". With The 3d6 jsj these guys will obliterate assault terminators and the gun drones are a perfect bubble wrap against small arms fire.

I honestly don't think I will run this type of list outside of tournaments again.

Frankly, I figure that IG would be able to menace the Farsight/shadowsun combo with some good old Leman Russ's. S8 AP3 pie plates sound like hell for this unit to deal with.

 King Pariah wrote:
Frankly, I figure that IG would be able to menace the Farsight/shadowsun combo with some good old Leman Russ's. S8 AP3 pie plates sound like hell for this unit to deal with.

You're forgetting the 2+ cover save and giant pile of expendable gun drones.

 Peregrine wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
Frankly, I figure that IG would be able to menace the Farsight/shadowsun combo with some good old Leman Russ's. S8 AP3 pie plates sound like hell for this unit to deal with.

You're forgetting the 2+ cover save and giant pile of expendable gun drones.

Valid point, Guess then it's time to pull out the Eradicators, or maybe the Colossus with some Hellhounds on the side

Of course for CSM: Slaaneshi Lord + Noise Marines + Master Blasters, Hellturkeys, and whatnot will probably have a field day. Problem solved

Someone told me that you couldn't run the two of them together. (They claimed that Shadowsun gives her unit Infiltrate, and that would mean Farsight couldn't join it.) I haven't bothered to look at it too closely, since I don't have either of them. Is that true?

The Shadowsun farsight bomb would be Shadowsun joining Farsight with his entourage, not the other way around. And if it were, Farsight still could join but the unit wouldn't benefit from infiltrate. (that's my understanding anyway)

I still haven't played it, but there are least a couple of obvious counters, imo...

Heavy Artillery Platforms, preferably with Prescience.
Grimoire Shenanigans (although this one is kind of a no-go if they have Runes of Warding, but that's a separate argument, RoW is the most broken ability in the entire game). Although even with RoW, 20 Demon Fast Attack of your choice with a 3++ are probably still going to put the hurt on it (and the Herald can challenge, smash one of the HQs, or get denied and use precision hits to kill hit and run)
Drop Pod Sternguard/Wolf Guard combi spam list (yes, the Tau will intercept some of them, got it)

theres a long list of counters to it being talked about in another thread.

Psyker Battle Squads seem a great choice.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Someone told me that you couldn't run the two of them together. (They claimed that Shadowsun gives her unit Infiltrate, and that would mean Farsight couldn't join it.) I haven't bothered to look at it too closely, since I don't have either of them. Is that true?

They cant infiltrate, but Shadowsun is a Jet Pack infantry too, so she can deepstrike with them.

You'd think people would be taking more things that ignore cover to avoid these combo's.

Most everything that ignores cover is AP4 or less to make sure Space Marines don't become redundant though.

Anyway, I figure bolters should solve it, like they solve everything else. 30-50 bolters will just dissolve the unit no matter how good its cover save is.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Most everything that ignores cover is AP4 or less to make sure Space Marines don't become redundant though.

Anyway, I figure bolters should solve it, like they solve everything else. 30-50 bolters will just dissolve the unit no matter how good its cover save is.

A 3+ save is still far better to deal with then a 2+, especially with S5+ shooting.

I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of playing against it yet, but from what I've seen in jy2's battle of the death stars thread this unit is verging on broken.

The combined HQ's offer the unit so many buffs it's not even funny, buffs that work incredibly well in synergy with one another. As if their general mobility and horrendous amount of AP2 firepower wasn't enough, they're subject to a 2+ cover save regardless of what you throw at them. Simply terrifying. You can't hide from them because they ignore all cover. You can't pie plate them to death easily due to their 2+ cover save. Most of the time they'll run faster than you will so you're not catching them either. And they can get close, shoot you, and promptly leave allowing for no return fire.

For all intents and purposes they're effectively fast attack Terminators with better weapons.

Short of relying on precision shots to pop off the appropriate HQ or a Vindicare Assassin, I don't see a great deal other than weapons that ignore cover even bothering these guys.

That said, I look forward to the challenge of facing them with my GK/Necron tournament list.

I've tried it, and will never use it outside of a tourney, possibly not even then. For my money, it made things way too easy on my side and too hard on my opponents.

I don't want an easy button for my army, and I don't like seeing discouragement from across the table.

Blast Masters would rip up this combo. My main opponent plays noise marines with 4 blast masters. S8, AP3 ignored cover. But then they could just deep strike in so close it would be too risky to use scattering blast templates or just use the 3D6 to just out of LoS.

I agree with dpal666. Unless i was in a high stakes, reputable tournament like a GT or RTT i wouldn't use this combo. Certainly not in any sort of friendly game, whats the point of a game with little challenge. Playing games where your opponent is just broken and discouraged are just no fun, i would much rather a close, well played game.

I hate how using something legitimate becomes so frowned on because its a bit too powerful.

It's like using one of the many lists of the other codices that is classed as too cheesy and powerful to be considered fair.

This unit probably costs 700-800 points. If kept in reserve in an 1850 game that leaves 1000 points on the table.
So what happens is they come in a blitz a good unit and then you turn every gun in your army on them and say bye bye.
I don't care what way you slice it 1000 ish points of shooting (assuming losses and range) is going to nuke them.

I say bring it, it's still favourable to 3 hell drakes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hate how using something legitimate becomes so frowned on because its a bit too powerful.

It's like using one of the many lists of the other codices that is classed as too cheesy and powerful to be considered fair.

This unit probably costs 700-800 points. If kept in reserve in an 1850 game that leaves 1000 points on the table.
So what happens is they come in a blitz a good unit and then you turn every gun in your army on them and say bye bye.
I don't care what way you slice it 1000 ish points of shooting (assuming losses and range) is going to nuke them.

I say bring it, it's still favourable to 3 hell drakes.

Boniface wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hate how using something legitimate becomes so frowned on because its a bit too powerful.

It's like using one of the many lists of the other codices that is classed as too cheesy and powerful to be considered fair.

This unit probably costs 700-800 points. If kept in reserve in an 1850 game that leaves 1000 points on the table.
So what happens is they come in a blitz a good unit and then you turn every gun in your army on them and say bye bye.
I don't care what way you slice it 1000 ish points of shooting (assuming losses and range) is going to nuke them.

I say bring it, it's still favourable to 3 hell drakes.

But it doesnt come in bits. Its comes as 1 unit and has a 2/3 chance of coming on turn 2.

If your dead set on winning thats that your only priority, fine, thats what tournaments are about. But in a friendlt game whats the point? Game will be over turn 3, you probably lost an hour of good gaming fun by it ending early and you dont really have the sense of satisfaction of using the units you chose to formulate a awesome strategy because you simply dropped in a huge "i win button" and finished the game. Doesnt really require a lot of thought or strategy.

 Jancoran wrote:
therecs a long list of counters to it being talked about in another thread.

Psyker Battle Squads seem a great choice.

Yes there is a long thread already on this subjeSeact and as with everything in this game there are counters for everything, the point of this thread is to discuss this unit without using hypotheticals.

Death stars in general suffer from the not being able to be everywhere syndrome. This death star seems to overcome
that limitation thanks to the 3d6 jsj move. One hard counter to this type of death star is the heldrake, but after infiltrating and that 3d6 move odds are very good that all the drake can do is fly over harmlessly throwing its template out onto broadsides or pathfinders. When I run this monstrosity my fire warriors will
start in reserves and do their best to not die.

Also you can't go into a tournament planning to face a unit of 9 battle suits and 14 drones. The drones which at face value appear to be no more than ablative wounds are provide amazing fire support if you have the first turn. Between the C&C node, drone controller, and MSS those str5 drones can put a serious hurting on anything short of a wraithlord.

Add in a Farseer and a small Eldar troop unit and you have one very mean combination.

Again after 1 game against a pretty fierce list I can see how nasty Farsight and friends are.

The drone load out on these things I think remains a question, piling on gun drones help a lot with killing hoards, but the unit is so expensive I can see a case for shield drones because there are a lot more ap3 ignore cover weapons out there than I think people realize (there will also likely be an increase in the amount of ap 3 ignore cover wapons in the meta). Also max drones does make this unit more vunerable to small arms as it will create a majority tougness 3 unit which sucks against psybolt, bolter, and even lasgun fire.

IMO if you go full farsight bomb (shadowsun and farsight, max drones) I don't think you can deep strike it. That unit is 1k points, there are time this unit won't arrive till 4. if an 1850 point list should be able to table in 850 points by turn 3. and a lot will have a decent chance to do so by the end of 2 (daemon speed freak lists for instance).

Boniface wrote:

I hate how using something legitimate becomes so frowned on because its a bit too powerful.

It's like using one of the many lists of the other codices that is classed as too cheesy and powerful to be considered fair.

This unit probably costs 700-800 points. If kept in reserve in an 1850 game that leaves 1000 points on the table.
So what happens is they come in a blitz a good unit and then you turn every gun in your army on them and say bye bye.
I don't care what way you slice it 1000 ish points of shooting (assuming losses and range) is going to nuke them.

I say bring it, it's still favourable to 3 hell drakes.

I played this in a friendly game, this type of list shouldn't be run in a friendly game because it is anything but friendly.

Properly kitted out you are looking at around 967ish points. They are not starting in reserve. For starters another Tau army would obliterate it for starters, no you infiltrate this mess 18" away move 6" forward and unleash hell.

You infiltrate this bastard and face this all twin linked all ignoring cover and all with tank hunter...

28 str5 aphots from the drones
16 str6 ap2
8 str7 ap4
4 str 8 ap1

The 28 drones strikes have to be fired at the same target but all
the rest can be split off at 6 different targets.

After putting out that much fire they can jump in the assault phase out of range.

Its disgusting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pony_law wrote:
The drone load out on these things I think remains a question, piling on gun drones help a lot with killing hoards, but the unit is so expensive I can see a case for shield drones because there are a lot more ap3 ignore cover weapons out there than I think people realize (there will also likely be an increase in the amount of ap 3 ignore cover wapons in the meta). Also max drones does make this unit more vunerable to small arms as it will create a majority tougness 3 unit which sucks against psybolt, bolter, and even lasgun fire.

IMO if you go full farsight bomb (shadowsun and farsight, max drones) I don't think you can deep strike it. That unit is 1k points, there are time this unit won't arrive till 4. if an 1850 point list should be able to table in 850 points by turn 3. and a lot will have a decent chance to do so by the end of 2 (daemon speed freak lists for instance).

Drones are T4 and with this unit you will want those extra shots, especially if you go first.

I don't know why, but I kind of get the feeling that some people have forgotten that in a Shadowsun/Farsight bomb, you can either choose to do the 3D6 jump, or deepstrike without scatter, but not both as only one of the two can be the warlord. Sure, you could still do the 3D6 jump and choose to deepstrike that unit in, but you're then running a fairly high risk of scattering and having a mishap considering this is a 9 man 40mm based unit with god knows how many drones.

 King Pariah wrote:
I don't know why, but I kind of get the feeling that some people have forgotten that in a Shadowsun/Farsight bomb, you can either choose to do the 3D6 jump, or deepstrike without scatter, but not both as only one of the two can be the warlord. Sure, you could still do the 3D6 jump and choose to deepstrike that unit in, but you're then running a fairly high risk of scattering and having a mishap considering this is a 9 man 40mm based unit with god knows how many drones.

You don't deepstrike this unit you infiltrate them. If Farsight can't infiltrate with them then he jumps his way to them he should join them by turn 3. Infiltrating them still gets you in rapid fire plasma range, and melta range by turn 2.

The hardest counter to a farsight/shadowsun mob is another Tau force, a Riptide with interceptor would love to see that massive target hit the table all clumped together, with drones I don't think the template could scatter enough to not hit something.

Always infiltrate never deepstrike.

I've been looking at the codex and I don't understand how the unit gets to 2+ cover all the time with Showdowsun? if your in the open I think your looking at a 4+ cover save which isn't great. If your limited to being in area trerrain to get this seems like your vunerable to what type of terrain is available and placement. If you are going to use an Aegis then it seems like IG could counter deploy against you and pretty reliably our range you.

I'd also imagine tunderfires could be a problem, 4 S5 ignore cover blasts in a tight packed deeps strike clump will cause a bucket of wounds (you also aren't likely to get shot at as you can deploy really far back given the 60" range and nice point trade off of 100pts versus 1k probably will put them on the lower hlf of target priority.

Pony_law wrote:
I've been looking at the codex and I don't understand how the unit gets to 2+ cover all the time with Showdowsun? if your in the open I think your looking at a 4+ cover save which isn't great. If your limited to being in area trerrain to get this seems like your vunerable to what type of terrain is available and placement. If you are going to use an Aegis then it seems like IG could counter deploy against you and pretty reliably our range you.

I'd also imagine tunderfires could be a problem, 4 S5 ignore cover blasts in a tight packed deeps strike clump will cause a bucket of wounds (you also aren't likely to get shot at as you can deploy really far back given the 60" range and nice point trade off of 100pts versus 1k probably will put them on the lower hlf of target priority.

Someone likes to believe that everything on a 1k+ unit is a 2+ save... but the farsight unit is a bit weak to oncomming fire due to only being T4 majority with 3+ saves across the suits and 4+ on the drones with a 5++ on Shadowsun 4++ on farsight and potensially 4++ on any suit that picks shields. ( Based on they are in the open )

The advantage of the bomb is the massive firepower it can dish out, and not for their resilience.

Pony_law wrote:
I've been looking at the codex and I don't understand how the unit gets to 2+ cover all the time with Showdowsun? if your in the open I think your looking at a 4+ cover save which isn't great. If your limited to being in area trerrain to get this seems like your vunerable to what type of terrain is available and placement. If you are going to use an Aegis then it seems like IG could counter deploy against you and pretty reliably our range you.

I'd also imagine tunderfires could be a problem, 4 S5 ignore cover blasts in a tight packed deeps strike clump will cause a bucket of wounds (you also aren't likely to get shot at as you can deploy really far back given the 60" range and nice point trade off of 100pts versus 1k probably will put them on the lower hlf of target priority.

It is a 4+ or a 2+ in cover.

As I have said there are counters but if I see things that have ignore cover and I can infiltrate where will I target first.

valace2 wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I don't know why, but I kind of get the feeling that some people have forgotten that in a Shadowsun/Farsight bomb, you can either choose to do the 3D6 jump, or deepstrike without scatter, but not both as only one of the two can be the warlord. Sure, you could still do the 3D6 jump and choose to deepstrike that unit in, but you're then running a fairly high risk of scattering and having a mishap considering this is a 9 man 40mm based unit with god knows how many drones.

You don't deepstrike this unit you infiltrate them. If Farsight can't infiltrate with them then he jumps his way to them he should join them by turn 3. Infiltrating them still gets you in rapid fire plasma range, and melta range by turn 2.

The hardest counter to a farsight/shadowsun mob is another Tau force, a Riptide with interceptor would love to see that massive target hit the table all clumped together, with drones I don't think the template could scatter enough to not hit something.

Always infiltrate never deepstrike.

The only portion of the unit that can infiltrate is Shadowsun. Due to the order of actions when you deploy your army by the time you can deploy Shadowsun to join either Farsight or the bodyguard unit, the units are already deployed and therefore not eligible to infiltrate. You can outflank the whole thing, or you can deep strike the whole thing, but you can't infiltrate anything other than Shadowsun.

valace2 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
therecs a long list of counters to it being talked about in another thread.

Psyker Battle Squads seem a great choice.

Yes there is a long thread already on this subjeSeact and as with everything in this game there are counters for everything, the point of this thread is to discuss this unit without using hypotheticals.

Death stars in general suffer from the not being able to be everywhere syndrome. This death star seems to overcome
that limitation thanks to the 3d6 jsj move. One hard counter to this type of death star is the heldrake, but after infiltrating and that 3d6 move odds are very good that all the drake can do is fly over harmlessly throwing its template out onto broadsides or pathfinders. When I run this monstrosity my fire warriors will
start in reserves and do their best to not die.

Also you can't go into a tournament planning to face a unit of 9 battle suits and 14 drones. The drones which at face value appear to be no more than ablative wounds are provide amazing fire support if you have the first turn. Between the C&C node, drone controller, and MSS those str5 drones can put a serious hurting on anything short of a wraithlord.

Add in a Farseer and a small Eldar troop unit and you have one very mean combination.

Again after 1 game against a pretty fierce list I can see how nasty Farsight and friends are.

Ive made my position clear that the Farsun is enormously powerful. That there are counters does not diminish that. But there are. It will COST you to take the Farsun down but what choice have you got?