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Someone told me that having Longstrike with a hammerhead makes him have 5-6 rolls to hit become precision shot. But other than the hammerhead taking advanced Targetting system I don't see the ability of taking a second to gain 5-6 roll. What am I missing? Or was Iliad to?

I'm having trouble understanding the question.

Longstrike's Hammerhead gets Percision 5+.

A different Hammerhead can get Percision(6+) with a Advanced Targeting System.

I see no rules that would allow a non-Longstrike Hammerhead a Percision 5+

Yonush wrote:
Longstrike's Hammerhead gets Percision 5+.

Where does it say this? I'm looking at page 62 and am not seeing anything about Precision shots.

I'll have to double check Longstrike's rules. I know he get's Precision Shots, but I thought it was @ 5+ with an Advanced Targeting System. (perhaps I wasn't clear in my post either)

Unless I missed something, stacking Precision Shot on top of Precision Shot doesn't give you super-Precision Shot.

For that matter, Longstrike isn't technically even a character, as far as I can see.

No, doesn't work like that.

Raesvelg wrote:
Unless I missed something, stacking Precision Shot on top of Precision Shot doesn't give you super-Precision Shot.

It does when we are talking about suits which is what he is getting confused with. The Advanced Targeting System for suits says when you buy the support system, and suit already equipped with the system goes from a 6 to a 5+. For vehicles the Advanced Targeting System says it is just a 6.

Longstrike has no rules that give him precision shot.

The real question is: Do you consider Longstrike as a character?

The short answer is, sadly, no.

It is the character rules on page 63 which grant the initial precision shot bonus. In the same page is a paragraph called character types. Within that character type paragraph is the words They have their own profile. If you look at character profiles you notice they are models in their own right, and all labeled as characters to indicate when they get the special rule. Without that indicator they can not be called a character, even with a unique name and a 'one per army' limitation.

So where is Longstrikers profile?

He is clearly just an upgrade, and not the first 'unique upgrade' worded to appear as a character, but not actually ruled as such. This is not usually a problem because most unique 'character' upgrades use existing profiles which are flagged as character in any case. Situations do exist where they don't and in these cases just having an 'one per army' limitation doesn't grant you the character bonus.

Actually, probably unique to Longstriker and his good drinking buddy Pask.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do advise to take a closer looking at the wargear you are debating as well. There is also two versions of the wargear with two differently worded rulings and you need to use the correct rule in the right situation. The first is support system which does grant a 1+ precision bonus to the character's already existing precise rule. The second is a vehicle upgrade and does not contain the same wording, completely void of mentioning characters at all. The best it offers is standard precision, not stating it grants precision but using wording to mean the same thing.

Rule wise it can easily be argued that, even if you took the longstriker to be a character mentality, the actual wargear in question does not offer any additional bonus. Personally I see it as more sign that they do not intend for models with the 'vehicle' unit type to also be characters. There are lots of additional rules, abilities, boons and banes that go with characters then just precise shot. Many of these additional rules do not work at all with vehicles and it is clear they just want to be intelligent and side step the issue completely.

So no, 6+ only and will require targeting system upgrade to his tank first.

I see nothing saying Longstrike gets 5+ precision shot. Be it Longstrike in a hammernhead or just a hammerhead its still just 6. Or at least that's what I understand. Where does it say Longstrike being in a hammerhead is a 5+ precision shot.

 ruthlessgamer wrote:
I see nothing saying Longstrike gets 5+ precision shot. Be it Longstrike in a hammernhead or just a hammerhead its still just 6. Or at least that's what I understand. Where does it say Longstrike being in a hammerhead is a 5+ precision shot.

It doesn't, at all. The only way Longstrike gets a precision shot is if he(read: Hammerhead) takes the Advanced Targeting System from the Vehicle Battle Systems, and when he does, its just a 6.

That's what I figured, I'd love him to have 5+ but I'd also like to play by the rules. But as seen by other people apparently there is some invisible rule that let's him. Hah

Yeah touched upon this in the hammerhead thread.

Basically because they decided to put the fluff section and special rules for Longstrike in the HQ section people are getting confused.

But he does not appear in the army list as an HQ only as an upgrade. So no it's on 6+ unless they FAQ it to say he is. Charecter. And does get the character benefits. But if this is the case and it is an upgrade. Then does that mean you can upgrade all your hammer heads with him. Because if he in not classed as a character or HQ choice then you can negate the only one of a same named character rule? And it does not say in the codex that you can only upgrade 1 hammerhead.

So yeah could do with a FAQ rather than speculation.

But as of the moment. I only play one. And he only precision shots on a 6+. Untill it gets clarified, some when in the next few years then ill stick to playing this way.

By virtue of being a Special Character, he is a Character

nosferatu1001 wrote:
By virtue of being a Special Character, he is a Character

Maybe so, but does that grant his Hammerhead Precision shots? Same could be said for Pask and Chronus.

 cerbrus2 wrote:
And it does not say in the codex that you can only upgrade 1 hammerhead.

Yes it does. Read the entry for the Hammerhead on page 103(the army list section.

 Firehead158 wrote:

 cerbrus2 wrote:
And it does not say in the codex that you can only upgrade 1 hammerhead.

Yes it does. Read the entry for the Hammerhead on page 103(the army list section.

Cheers for that.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
By virtue of being a Special Character, he is a Character

His entry nowhere states he is a special character, or character of any type. He is an upgrade that is just noted by placing a "unique" model inside of the turret. He is not infantry, he is not a vehicle, nor an independent character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cerbrus2 wrote:

 Firehead158 wrote:

 cerbrus2 wrote:
And it does not say in the codex that you can only upgrade 1 hammerhead.

Yes it does. Read the entry for the Hammerhead on page 103(the army list section.

Cheers for that.

No problemo. I initially thought that too, but after re-reading was disappointed.

Firehead - wrong, read what "Unique" means as regards Special Characters. You do not need to be infantry etc to be a Character, no such rule exists.

ruthlessgamer wrote:Or was Iliad to?

Odyssey anything in the rules granting Longstrike a 5+ Precision shot.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Firehead - wrong, read what "Unique" means as regards Special Characters. You do not need to be infantry etc to be a Character, no such rule exists.

I understand that but please tell me where then, in the Tau codex, does it refer to him as a type of anything, other than an upgrade? If it said something other than "upgrade", like unique character, I would totally agree with you. Unless they FAQ it, it is nothing else other than an upgrade. Just because you can only get one does not make it a "unique character". If this is the case, and he becomes more than an upgrade, he needs to be FAQ'd to also be more expensive. His points cost is WAY less than what capability he adds to the vehicle.

He may be a unique upgrade, similar to that of a AFP, or CIC, but he is not a character. IMO, if GW wanted him to be a unique character, he would dismount from his Hammerhead when it gets destroyed like Brother Sergeant Chronus from C:SM.

Page 110, BRB "Unique"

You do not have to specify "character" if you are Unique, as you are automatically a special character, and autoamtically therefore a character.

Your opinion that he is nothing more than an upgrade ignores the rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Page 110, BRB "Unique"

You do not have to specify "character" if you are Unique, as you are automatically a special character, and autoamtically therefore a character.

Your opinion that he is nothing more than an upgrade ignores the rules.

I edited my post before you posted that, please read my above statement. I would agree with you if anywhere in his entry is said the word "unique" however, it does not.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Page 110, BRB "Unique"

You do not have to specify "character" if you are Unique, as you are automatically a special character, and autoamtically therefore a character.

Your opinion that he is nothing more than an upgrade ignores the rules.

I agree with this. Now, the question is, does it become a 5+ precision shot with an Advanced Targeting System, or do the rules for that specifically say only suits? A Hammerhead isn't a suit.

 Firehead158 wrote:
I edited my post before you posted that, please read my above statement. I would agree with you if anywhere in his entry is said the word "unique" however, it does not.

What is the wording that prevents you from taking more than one Longstrike in your army? I don't have the codex on me.

The one for suits specifies that the model gets Precision Shots or Improved Precision Shots. The one for vehicles just says the model gets Precision Shots. Therefore, assuming Longstrike gives his Hammerhead Precision Strikes (which I'm not sure on but would say no), then giving it the wargear is redundant and does nothing.

Infact, it says "Signature System" in his entry, which is how it is identified as only being able to be taken once for his entry. HE is the signature system, and that is your answer.

It does not have to say "unique" for him to be unique. Being named is sufficient, as the BRB says

A hammerhead isnt a suit, so no 5+ precision shot

 Oaka wrote:

 Firehead158 wrote:
I edited my post before you posted that, please read my above statement. I would agree with you if anywhere in his entry is said the word "unique" however, it does not.

What is the wording that prevents you from taking more than one Longstrike in your army? I don't have the codex on me.

"One hammerhead gunship may be upgraded to include Longstrike..." Pg. 103




Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It does not have to say "unique" for him to be unique. Being named is sufficient, as the BRB says

It also states that only characters get precision shots, and he has not in any way been identified as a character. Read JinxDragons post, it sums up everything that I have to say about it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It does not have to say "unique" for him to be unique. Being named is sufficient, as the BRB says

A hammerhead isnt a suit, so no 5+ precision shot

If what you are saying about him Being A character is correct. Then with ATS he will get Precision shots on a 5 or 6. As ATS states To hit rolls of 6 in the shooting phase are precision shots. Characters make precision shots on a 5 or 6. it says nothing about suits. It can be taken as a vehicle upgrade. as it is listed as a Vehicle VBS on Page 72.

So if you are correct about him being classed as a character because of the Unique rule on Page 110. Then happy days my Hammerhead can now fire precision shots on a 5+.

 cerbrus2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It does not have to say "unique" for him to be unique. Being named is sufficient, as the BRB says

A hammerhead isnt a suit, so no 5+ precision shot

If what you are saying about him Being A character is correct. Then with ATS he will get Precision shots on a 5 or 6. As ATS states To hit rolls of 6 in the shooting phase are precision shots. Characters make precision shots on a 5 or 6. it says nothing about suits. It can be taken as a vehicle upgrade. as it is listed as a Vehicle VBS on Page 72.

So if you are correct about him being classed as a character because of the Unique rule on Page 110. Then happy days my Hammerhead can now fire precision shots on a 5+.

Where does it say Characters make PS on a 5 or 6? It just says 6. Giving it the vehicle battle system does not increase the PS, only the battle suit system does if the unit already has the ATS(ex: Shadowsun).

 cerbrus2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It does not have to say "unique" for him to be unique. Being named is sufficient, as the BRB says

A hammerhead isnt a suit, so no 5+ precision shot

If what you are saying about him Being A character is correct. Then with ATS he will get Precision shots on a 5 or 6. As ATS states To hit rolls of 6 in the shooting phase are precision shots. Characters make precision shots on a 5 or 6. it says nothing about suits. It can be taken as a vehicle upgrade. as it is listed as a Vehicle VBS on Page 72.

So if you are correct about him being classed as a character because of the Unique rule on Page 110. Then happy days my Hammerhead can now fire precision shots on a 5+.

The ATS available for vehicles, and the one available for non-vehicles have different rules. The one for non-vehicles grants an improved Precision Shot if the model already can make them. The one for vehicles does not.

Lol, I'll just come check on this post in a few days and find out if its 5+ or 6. I'm lost now with so many yes, no, maybe, Well kinda, only sometimes, well depends...