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I want to like the Hemlock - I really, really do. However, I actually don't have that much experience with fliers, and several aspects of its statline are causing me some concern. The inability to take any defensive upgrades with AV 10 feels flimsy, even for a flier. Heavy D-Scythes seem like they have uncomfortably short range, and I worry that their rate of fire will be too low. And while I love (love!) tricksy-type forces, so a unit built to attack Leadership is very appealing to me, the fact that it can't cast Terrify during its first turn on the board combined with the fact that Leadership has never really been a viable attack option in 40k (just too many things have Ld 10) make me wonder if it will actually be able to effectively do what it seems like it's supposed to. But, as previously mentioned, I just don't have much experience with fliers.

So what do you guys think? Is the Hemlock viable? What other units in the Codex accentuate its use or survivability? If I have Dark Eldar allies in my list anyway, is there anything that the Hemlock can do that a Voidraven wouldn't be better for?

Thanks in advance for the help and advice!

Yeah it suck that you can't use the psychic power when it arrives, but don't forget that it still affect ld around it and we have lots of pinning weapons that benefit!
Use it to boost rangers and dark reapers.

I want to field it too, seems like a thing ulthwé forces would use. Just a quick question, where in the rulebook is the part that says you can't use a witch fire power the turn you arrive?

It doesn't, but Terrify is a Malediction, not a Witchfire. Malediction is done at start of Movement phase. If you already moved onto the table, it's no longer the start of the Movement phase.

aww that sucks, that lowers the viability of the hemlock by a lot.

I think it could be viable in a 2xFOC 2k or more game. Spam fliers (3 of each - the hunters will draw fire as they HAVE to be dealt with), bring as many warlocks & spiritseers as possible, as well as rangers & guardians (with EML for heavy weapon). That way heat should be drawn off them and you can reap the benefit of pinning & leadership reduction.

It's fairly awful. It not only has to survive Interceptor, but also a normal shooting phase to do anything. In order to survive, it most likely will need to Evade, so it's weapons are useless. Turn 3 at the earliest, it will try and get something past Deny the Witch. Good luck with that if there is a ML 2 in the unit. Not only that, to be truly effective, you have roll Horrify on either a Warlock or Spiritseer. You then have to get them within 18" of the unit to cast, which then also must be successful and get past the Deny roll. If your using a transport to get in range, the psyker has to be out of the Transport and in range the turn before. So you have to be in range and out in the open on Turn 2. For 185 pts, it shouldn't be this hard to get the thing to work.

Basically it will not be viable unless the list is incredibly well tailored.

It's been good in my playtest games. The main benefit is rerolling pinning, rerolling Tank shocks, rerolling psychic tests. You don't need a test for that, and it happens as soon as it's on. Rerolling LD is annoying and people WILL fail without negetive modifiers.

Half the guns you shoot pin - Waveserpents, Rangers, Starshot Missles, Plasma Missiles, Vauls support Batteries, Nightspinners are all very popular choices. Then you've got corner cases in Eldritch Storm, Death Jesters and Spinneret Rifles.

Horrify is NICE to have, but not needed. Ditto Terrify.

The guns are hit or miss sure, but they can and will suck Daemon Princes, Riptides, Mephiston, Wraithknights into the Warp. 6's hit on 2D6 Scatter.

Terrify CAN be used on the turn the hemlock arrives, check the BRB FAQ. That said it will not likely be in range of anything the turn it arrives since it still has to cast the power before it moves.

Fiberdonkey wrote:
Terrify CAN be used on the turn the hemlock arrives, check the BRB FAQ. That said it will not likely be in range of anything the turn it arrives since it still has to cast the power before it moves.

The BRB FAQ does not allow you to cast Terrify on the turn it arrive from reserves. What the FAQ does, is allow you to ROLL for reserves or cast spells first, your choice. Not MOVE first, or cast Terrify first.

As Terrify has to be cast at the START of the movement phase, your model is not on the board at the start of the movement phase as it MUST come on from reserve. Therefore it cannot cast Terrify on the turn it arrives.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

Fiberdonkey wrote:
Terrify CAN be used on the turn the hemlock arrives, check the BRB FAQ. That said it will not likely be in range of anything the turn it arrives since it still has to cast the power before it moves.

The BRB FAQ does not allow you to cast Terrify on the turn it arrive from reserves. What the FAQ does, is allow you to ROLL for reserves or cast spells first, your choice. Not MOVE first, or cast Terrify first.

As Terrify has to be cast at the START of the movement phase, your model is not on the board at the start of the movement phase as it MUST come on from reserve. Therefore it cannot cast Terrify on the turn it arrives.

Although the BRB FAQ states
Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68) A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. (BRB FAQ)

This can easily be brought up as RAI (considering this is the worst written and organised rulebook I have yet to read I'm hardly out on a limb with the minority to say RAI is as good as RAW)
Since Blessings and Maledictions have the same wording IE- "xxx are manifested at the start of the Psyker's movement phase" (pg 68 BRB)

This means RAW for Blessings and reserve arrivals are both forced on the player as "start of movement phase"
"At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit.... that unit arrives from reserve...
When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge..."
And due to new FAQ "THEY DO OCCUR SIMULTANEOUSLY... PLAYER WHOSE TURN IT IS DECIDES IN WHAT ORDER..."

Therefore and in summary I believe RAI for Maledictions (as above) are as RAW (FAQ) for Blessings due to exact same wording

Like MANY internet debaters you are subjecting your beliefs on the interpretations (of previously stated "worst rules as written EVER") as some estranged fact....

We don't need the FAQ for this.

First, Strayan is almost certainly right that the FAQ allows the casting of psychic powers after units move on to the table from Reserve, because the rules sometimes require that you roll for outflanking /after/ moving other units on to the table (there have been threads about this in YMDC).

Second, the rulebook is explicit that psykers may not cast "start of movement phase" powers on the turn they arrive from reserve (p67).

And that is my point exactly. Psykers may not cast start of turn psychic powers the turn they arrive from reserves.

And the fact is, Strayan, you annot cast start of turn psychic powers the turn you arrive from reserve. The FAQ was given so that one pyschic power in the core rulebook would actually work as written, that power being Scriers Gaze, not so someone can cheese out and do something that is blatantly against the rulebook like coming in from reserves and then casting a spell that is cast at the start of the turn.

Nice try though.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
And that is my point exactly. Psykers may not cast start of turn psychic powers the turn they arrive from reserves.

And the fact is, Strayan, you annot cast start of turn psychic powers the turn you arrive from reserve. The FAQ was given so that one pyschic power in the core rulebook would actually work as written, that power being Scriers Gaze, not so someone can cheese out and do something that is blatantly against the rulebook like coming in from reserves and then casting a spell that is cast at the start of the turn.

Nice try though.

The FAQ was written to allow people to cast Blessings on their units when they arrive from reserves, but units which arrive still may not cast powers which require that they be done at the start of the turn.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
And that is my point exactly. Psykers may not cast start of turn psychic powers the turn they arrive from reserves.

And the fact is, Strayan, you annot cast start of turn psychic powers the turn you arrive from reserve. The FAQ was given so that one pyschic power in the core rulebook would actually work as written, that power being Scriers Gaze, not so someone can cheese out and do something that is blatantly against the rulebook like coming in from reserves and then casting a spell that is cast at the start of the turn.

Nice try though.

The FAQ was written to allow people to cast Blessings on their units when they arrive from reserves, but units which arrive still may not cast powers which require that they be done at the start of the turn.

And please, smugness is an unattractive way to try to debate points made, regardless of whether or not it's correct.

The hemlock is garbage, and using it to pin models is actually the best way to get it shot down.

To make the mindshock pod work, you have to be within double tap range of a rapid fire weapon. Say you pin a squad with S4 weapons, like bolters. Now, this squad is forced to snap shoot during their turn. Since they have to snap shoot anyways, they are probably going to dakka into the overpriced paper plane with the AP2 guns that forced them to ground. Since the hemlock is Av10 all around there is a decent chance a large volley of bolter fire and some other stuff will cause a glance or two. This is only worse if you pin a squad with heavier weapons.

This is, of course if you manage to get through anti air and interceptor weapons, and god forbid another flier shows up. The hemlock can't touch other fliers(except terrify a FMC which is probably psychic) but it can sure as hell be shot down or vector striked.