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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 21:11:39
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Tunneling Trygon
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Is the rare choice for an army of 1999 500 points or 499?
My friend has told me that the 499.75 is rounded down, but I've always assumed it is rounded up.
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Grimtuff wrote: GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Draigo is a Mat Ward creation. They don't follow the same rules as everyone else. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 21:29:41
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Huge Bone Giant
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There is no rounding, 500 is more than 25% of 1999.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 22:08:28
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Tunneling Trygon
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So its 499 points worth of Rare then?
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Grimtuff wrote: GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Draigo is a Mat Ward creation. They don't follow the same rules as everyone else. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 22:16:04
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Huge Bone Giant
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It would be 499.75, if you can find something worth 3/4 of a point you can bring it too.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 22:21:55
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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kirsanth wrote:It would be 499.75, if you can find something worth 3/4 of a point you can bring it too.

Actually, Fantasy does have a rounding rule, which says round up IIRC. I don't know if it applies to force org.
-Matt
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 23:35:32
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Crazed Savage Orc
Saginaw, MI
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You are playing a 1999 point game? Then yes rare is 499.75. If you are playing a 2000 point game but your built army is only 1999 then rare is at 2000pt lvl so 500pt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 12:25:01
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight
Edinburgh, Scotland
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Artee wrote:You are playing a 1999 point game? Then yes rare is 499.75. If you are playing a 2000 point game but your built army is only 1999 then rare is at 2000pt lvl so 500pt.
This
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Nite |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 13:32:55
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Huge Bone Giant
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Excellent point.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/19 18:18:29
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Any time you round, you round up. So if you are allowed 499.75 points you are allowed 500 points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/19 18:23:09
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Huge Bone Giant
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I read that for dice rolls (that are divided), but did not see it listed as a general rule. editing to add: I see it for halving distances movable too, but still not an overarching rule to round (even for distance) - which would make charge distances and such different than I have seen them played.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/06/19 18:40:53
"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/19 20:20:42
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Crazed Savage Orc
Saginaw, MI
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Difference is that rules have, you can spend up to n% of your points.
If you are playing at 750 pts. 25% is 187.5 pts. 188pts is over 25%.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/19 21:21:31
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Any time you round, you round up. So if you are allowed 499.75 points you are allowed 500 points Reference please. BRB p.7 specifically refers to dice rolls, characteristic, "other values" and models. It explicitely refers, however, to situations in which you are "called upon" which is not the case for army list building.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/06/19 21:26:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 09:22:20
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Why are you not "called upon" to round when list building?
Points limits are "other values", agreed? You can be "called upon" to round when working out how many points you may spend.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 09:35:53
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight
Edinburgh, Scotland
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But 500 is undeniably more than 499.75, so is definitely more than 25% of 1999. Rounding up would break the rule, so either there is a conflict or you don't round up.
If there is a conflict beteeen rules, you us the most important rule, which in this case is the limits.
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Nite |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 09:44:40
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The limit is more important - why?
500 is not more than 499.75 when you are told you round all figures. 500 is exactly the same as 499.75 rounded up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 10:16:43
Subject: Re:Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Option 1: If you purposely wrote the list for 1999, then your limit is 499 so you do not exceed 25%.
Option 2: If you are actually writing a 2k list that happens to come to 1999, then your limit is 25% of the intended army size, which is 2k, so you have 500 as a limit.
Option 3: use option 2, if your friend argues the point, slap him on the grounds he is being a tard.
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All anyone wants in the world is to be accepted. Except me, i don't give a S%@t.
Armies of Mixer
WHFB-Ogres, WoC, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Tzeentch Daemons, OnG
40K- Tau,Guard, Nids, SM, BA, GK, IK, DW
The Hobbit/LOTR- Evil, Angmar, Mordor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 11:12:45
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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nosferatu1001 wrote:The limit is more important - why?
500 is not more than 499.75 when you are told you round all figures. 500 is exactly the same as 499.75 rounded up.
You are told to round, which is the thing that matters here, as stated above. Army composition never asks you to round numbers and it's never referenced again in the rulebook or FAQ. The only info you get is that you must not spend more than, e.g., 25% of your points on rare choices. If 25% is 499,75, then 500 is more than 499,75, which is more than 25% and therefore isn't allowed - both in terms of RAW and RAP.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 12:01:05
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Army composition asks you for a set value to be used to limit your choices, agreed?
You determine that value in points. Agreed?
Why ar eyou not then rounding, as you are being called upon to reference a value that is not a natural number.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 12:34:14
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Sniping Hexa
Dublin
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I got a question that, I think, makes much more sense that the argument since the 3rd or 4th post in this thread
As we all agree that the allocations for the different categories are based on the agreed set values for the battle (and not the amount reached by each army)
Why would anyone play (in WHFB) a 1999 game instead of a 2000 one?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 13:06:06
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I dont know, actually - in 40k people do it to avoid double FOC, however in fantasy that happens at 3000...sooo....really not sure why 1999
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 13:07:59
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Huge Bone Giant
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We do it in challenge matches to prevent people from using 500 points in a selection.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 13:33:02
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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kirsanth wrote:We do it in challenge matches to prevent people from using 500 points in a selection.
Does the 1 point really make that much of a difference in the majority of cases?
If so i'd love to hear some examples
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All anyone wants in the world is to be accepted. Except me, i don't give a S%@t.
Armies of Mixer
WHFB-Ogres, WoC, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Tzeentch Daemons, OnG
40K- Tau,Guard, Nids, SM, BA, GK, IK, DW
The Hobbit/LOTR- Evil, Angmar, Mordor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 13:39:13
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Sniping Hexa
Dublin
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for instance, 2499 points when playing Skaven, you can't cram 2 WLC + 2 HPA
1999, no dual Steam tank ...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 13:44:57
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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TanKoL wrote:for instance, 2499 points when playing Skaven, you can't cram 2 WLC + 2 HPA
1999, no dual Steam tank ...
I see the point now. In that case i would say you shouldn't round up or down, as rounding up defeats the object of your 1999 theory and rounding down does nothing as you cannot get anything for 3/4 of a point.
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All anyone wants in the world is to be accepted. Except me, i don't give a S%@t.
Armies of Mixer
WHFB-Ogres, WoC, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Tzeentch Daemons, OnG
40K- Tau,Guard, Nids, SM, BA, GK, IK, DW
The Hobbit/LOTR- Evil, Angmar, Mordor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 14:44:40
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yet again, you are told that "when called for" you round up or down.
When determining your limit you get 499.75. Thus you MUST round up as your limit in points is being called for
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 15:12:01
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Show me a page number where it says you MUST round points. Or even suggests that it's "called for". The fact that .5 points costs still exists in army books seems to state that you're incorrect that you MUST have full, rounded numbers.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/20 15:13:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 15:19:20
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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A 202.5 point unit, when called upon, woul dbe a 203 point unit as per page 7.
The existence of fractional point units has no bearing on this. Please try to avoid logical fallacies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 15:44:00
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It would only be a fallacy if you'd proven that your statement was correct. You've yet to actually do that. Pg.7 makes no consideration for points, only "other values", which is a vague statement. In addition, my point is that by RAW, we have less than 1 values in the rules and thus an indication of RAW supporting .75 being a valid interpretation.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/06/20 15:58:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 15:57:01
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Huge Bone Giant
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So wait. . . 1.5 inches is always rounded up to 2 inches?
How do you deal with deployment?
Or any range, for that matter.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/20 16:59:43
Subject: Rare choices in an army of 1999
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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nosferatu1001 wrote:A 202.5 point unit, when called upon, woul dbe a 203 point unit as per page 7. .
That's wrong RAW. p 7 explicitely states when you have to round numbers. Unless you have another RAW reference not brought up yet.
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